Jerusalem Easter Vigil, The Holy Fire

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waterbender

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There is nothing that confuses the Orthodox catholics more than the miracle of Holy Fire, which occurs on the Easter vigil of the Roman Catholic Church, not on the Easter vigil of the Orthodox Church! But Reuters still can’t get it right. The Byzantine Church is always a bit peturbed that God follows the calendar of the Roman bishop and not the Greek bishop, :bowdown2:

Holy Fire 2011

youtube.com/watch?v=UuznaDODI5g
👍
 
waterbender said:
There is nothing that confuses the Orthodox catholics more than the miracle of Holy Fire, which occurs on the Easter vigil of the Roman Catholic Church, not on the Easter vigil of the Orthodox Church! But Reuters still can’t get it right. The Byzantine Church is always a bit peturbed that God follows the calendar of the Roman bishop and not the Greek bishop, :bowdown2:

Holy Fire 2011

youtube.com/watch?v=UuznaDODI5g
👍
Click to expand...
i saw this on a documentary once…has anybody been to see the holy fire?..
 
waterbender said:
There is nothing that confuses the Orthodox catholics more than the miracle of Holy Fire, which occurs on the Easter vigil of the Roman Catholic Church, not on the Easter vigil of the Orthodox Church! But Reuters still can’t get it right. The Byzantine Church is always a bit peturbed that God follows the calendar of the Roman bishop and not the Greek bishop, :bowdown2:

Holy Fire 2011

youtube.com/watch?v=UuznaDODI5g
👍
Click to expand...
Are you sure? I always thought it happened only on the orthodox easter.
 
I don’t think the Orthodox are confused at all. I am pretty sure the Holy Fire occurs on the Orthodox Easter which happens to coincide with the “Roman” Easter this year.
I pray that one day all can celebrate Easter on the same date for the glory of God.
 
waterbender said:
There is nothing that confuses the Orthodox catholics more than the miracle of Holy Fire, which occurs on the Easter vigil of the Roman Catholic Church, not on the Easter vigil of the Orthodox Church! But Reuters still can’t get it right. The Byzantine Church is always a bit peturbed that God follows the calendar of the Roman bishop and not the Greek bishop, :bowdown2:

Holy Fire 2011

youtube.com/watch?v=UuznaDODI5g
👍
Click to expand...
This is not correct. It happens only the Holy Saturday of the Orthodox calendar for Pascha, at noon I believe.

I’ve been informed that In Europe, Eastern Catholics celebrate Pascha on the same day as the Orthodox. If so, not all Catholics celebrate Pascha on the same date, and the “Greek” Catholic bishops do not follow the “Roman” (i.e. Latin) Catholic ones. .
 
Madaglan said:
This is not correct. It happens only the Holy Saturday of the Orthodox calendar for Pascha, at noon I believe.

I’ve been informed that In Europe, Eastern Catholics celebrate Pascha on the same day as the Orthodox. If so, not all Catholics celebrate Pascha on the same date, and the “Greek” Catholic bishops do not follow the “Roman” (i.e. Latin) Catholic ones. .
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I think it’s actually midnight on the Saturday.
 
It occurs around noon on Holy Saturday. There are planes on standby to carry lanterns lit from the Holy Fire to the other Orthodox Churches, to Greece, Cyprus, Moscow etc.

XB
 
Madaglan said:
This is not correct. It happens only the Holy Saturday of the Orthodox calendar for Pascha, at noon I believe.

I’ve been informed that In Europe, Eastern Catholics celebrate Pascha on the same day as the Orthodox. If so, not all Catholics celebrate Pascha on the same date, and the “Greek” Catholic bishops do not follow the “Roman” (i.e. Latin) Catholic ones. .
Click to expand...
Eastern Catholics are a mixed bunch. Some follow the revised Julian Calendar, some the Gregorian Calendar. Even within the same Church.
 
some years, like last year and this year, Easter is celebrated at the same time for the West and East Churches. My family, Byzanties, have all been taught and have even experienced this phenomenon first hand, that the fire happens to appear inside the tomb of Christ on the Saturday before the Easter mass that the Roman Catholic Church celebrates.

If the Eastern Church celebrates Easter later than the West, the Holy fire is retrieved on the Orthodox Easter Vigil.

The relic of Mary Magdalene is also in the Church of the Holy Seplucher, and only Byzantine Catholics may stay with the priests who run the church during Holy Week and venerate the relics there.
 
The Miracle of the Holy Fire occurs on the Orthodox Easter date - which was the date calculation once universally observed by the entire Church, East and West, before the Roman Catholic Church introduced changes in the calculation (in direct violation of the canons of the early Councils, I might add).

For anyone who has been to the Church of the Resurrection (called by Western Catholics the “Church of the Holy Sepulchre”), the entire event is one that is not only beautiful and wondrous, but one that will be remembered for as long as one lives.

One may obtain a lantern to take some of the Light and there is even a plane company that allows people to take the lighted lanterns on board with them.

The Ukrainian Orthodox Church, Moscow Patriarchate regularly flies the Holy Fire of Jerusalem into Kiev at Easter.

Alex
 
Has this miracle ever failed to occur, and has it ever been investigated by scientists?
 
dcointin said:
Has this miracle ever failed to occur, and has it ever been investigated by scientists?
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During the crusades when the Latins held Jerusalem, the fire would NOT come for them. They then got the Greek Patriarch to come in and the fire came. There are both Israeli and Palastinian observers who make sure there is no funny business going on (matches flint lighters 😃 ).
 
The miracle was televised one year and while one could not see what was going on inside the Sepulchre Chapel (is that what one would call it?), one definitely COULD see wall-lanterns hanging outside catch fire . . .

An American medical student was there with his lantern one Orthodox Easter and was trying to listen in on what was happening inside the chapel where the Tomb of Christ is. As he strained his hearing, his lantern lit up when the Patriarch chanted, “Xpictoc Anecti!”

He went home and wrote an article in a medical journal about his experience and how it impacted his life . . .

Alex
 
waterbender said:
There is nothing that confuses the Orthodox catholics more than the miracle of Holy Fire, which occurs on the Easter vigil of the Roman Catholic Church, not on the Easter vigil of the Orthodox Church! 👍
Click to expand...
waterbender said:
…My family, Byzanties, have all been taught and have even experienced this phenomenon first hand, that the fire happens to appear inside the tomb of Christ on the Saturday before the Easter mass that the Roman Catholic Church celebrates.
Click to expand...
Do you have a reference for this, aside from your personal testimony, I mean…

Some documentation ?
 
There are, however, some doubts regarding the truth of the miracle, as the wikipedia article relates (taken from the writings of a Russian Orthodox bishop of the 19th century who seems to have been very distraught with what he found out about the miracle when he went to Jerusalem): en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Fire#Criticism

I guess we’ll have to wait for the day when someone records it on camera. Until then, the fact that the bishops and monks make it a point of not being seen by anyone is somewhat suspicious. I mean, if it’s a real miracle that takes place every year, it has the potential to convert MANY people. Why hide it? Why not put a camera constantly there to persuade everyone?
 
well,
it makes sense to me that the orthodox would want to hide or misconstrue to the the public that the fire appears on Orthodox Easter Vigil. But, most of the Orthodox leaders are very clear that they “retreive” the fire on Orthdox Easter Vigil. Mention of When the Miracle happens is not discussed.
 
Joel_PF said:
There are, however, some doubts regarding the truth of the miracle, as the wikipedia article relates (taken from the writings of a Russian Orthodox bishop of the 19th century who seems to have been very distraught with what he found out about the miracle when he went to Jerusalem): en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Fire#Criticism

I guess we’ll have to wait for the day when someone records it on camera. Until then, the fact that the bishops and monks make it a point of not being seen by anyone is somewhat suspicious. I mean, if it’s a real miracle that takes place every year, it has the potential to convert MANY people. Why hide it? Why not put a camera constantly there to persuade everyone?
Click to expand...
I am a powerful sceptic about all such phenomena. I don’t particularly like that people place value in signs, when the Gospel should be (in my opinion) more than sufficient.

This one raises my interest because it seems to be the kind of thing that some people have speculated caused the Holy Shroud to take on an image. It may be that a forceful blast of electronic energy came from the body of Christ at the moment of resurrection. I am not saying that is the only theory, but one. Interesting that this is alleged to take place at the same site.
 
waterbender said:
well,
it makes sense to me that the orthodox would want to hide or misconstrue to the the public that the fire appears on Orthodox Easter Vigil. But, most of the Orthodox leaders are very clear that they “retreive” the fire on Orthdox Easter Vigil. Mention of When the Miracle happens is not discussed.
Click to expand...
I have still not seen any corroborating evidence from you.

If you are going to make such a statement as if it is fact, you have to back it up.

If you are theorizing or speculating, just say so. You are entitled to your opinion.
 
The Miracle of the Holy Fire has indeed converted many people and has strengthened the faith of countless others through the centuries.

That there are those who doubt it - people will doubt that any miracle can occur. As for hiding the miracle, there is good spiritual reasons for doing so (although I myself have seen lanterns hanging on the walls in the Church catch fire all by themselves - quite a dramatic thing, to be sure!).

Miracles are not simply dramatic physical events in and of themselves. They are mystical events by which God wishes to teach us something. Eucharistic miracles whereby the consecrated Elements take on the form of human Flesh and other manifestations have been interpreted as an expression of Divine anger at the lack of faith of someone or some people in Church.

In one sense, to want to see a miracle is a kind of “testing” of God, a refusal to believe God until “He shows us His power.” My faith is not based on anything I’ve seen or experienced in this regard. And I wouldn’t want it to be.

For the believer, that miracles occur does not mean God is somehow trying to prove to us that He exists. God’s miracles should be accepted by us, when we experience them, as an attestation of God’s Presence in our lives, a Presence that is always there but which we often ignore.

Miracles can be experienced by people who have weak faith. Those with strong faith aren’t likely to experience a miracle, although we must always be open to God’s manifestations in our lives.

Ultimately, for the believer, everything that happens is a true miracle.

Alex
 
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