Jesuits and Blood Purity

[Hail_Linus]

A certain poster brought up the topic of Jesuits proclaiming that any person with Jewish ancestry, no matter how distant, could not join the Jesuit order and that this stayed in force until 1946.

I can tell this person got this little blurp from wikipedia which cites "The Jesuit Order as a Synagogue of Jews (Studies in Medieval and Reformation Traditions) by Robert A. Maryks.

I do not know if this is true or not, I have not had a chance to really research this. However, I do know the book explicitly states the founder of the Jesuits, St. Ignatius of Loyola, and his successor were against this. This problem did not occur until later. Anyway, assuming this allegation is true it does not present a problem to Catholicism but rather to bad Catholics. We have always had, and still do, the problem of religious orders do things contrary to Catholicism. In fact, while there are many good Jesuit priests, it is no secret that many of them are now on the extreme left, i.e. advocating communism, homosexuality activity, women priests, etc.

 

[Aelred_Minor]

If it was the post I’m thinking of I think the person said it was no Jewish ancestry back five generations, not indefinitely far back, but still. Needless to say I’d be offended at this if it’s true, having had a Jewish great-grandmother myself.

If it is true then we would do well to learn more about the thinking of the people who made the rule, what real or imagined problems they were trying to avoid, but at the end of the day I seriously doubt the policy was justifiable, assuming this isn’t just an imaginative calumny against the Jesuits that is.

 

[Hail_Linus]

If it was the post I’m thinking of I think the person said it was no Jewish ancestry back five generations, not indefinitely far back, but still. Needless to say I’d be offended at this if it’s true, having had a Jewish great-grandmother myself.

If it is true then we would do well to learn more about the thinking of the people who made the rule, what real or imagined problems they were trying to avoid, but at the end of the day I seriously doubt the policy was justifiable, assuming this isn’t just an imaginative calumny against the Jesuits that is.

Well of course its is offensive. I have a lot of Sephardic Jewish Blood, the actual type of Jew of that were the victims. My point was that it would have been offensive to the founder of the Jesuits, St. Ignatius of Loyola, himself. Apparently, some Jesuits pushed for this while he was still alive.

We should also be offended as Human Beings and especially as Catholics that an order such as the Jesuits would do such an unCatholic thing.

My point was that this was not authentic Catholicism and was also against authentic Jesuit teaching of the Founder who specifically prohibited the Jesuits from taking this position. Also, at this time you also had two of the greatest Catholics ever, St. Teresa of Avila and St. John of the Cross who both had Jewish blood, founding the Discalced Carmelites in Spain.

Bottom line is we should not take actions of small groups as representative of the actual religion. Because almost all religions have bad actions by people in their history but are not actually part of their Religious teaching. I don’t mind discussing the issue but I don’t appreciate these “one-liners” used solely to defame any religion.

 

[choliks]

I don’t mind discussing the issue but I don’t appreciate these “one-liners” used solely to defame any religion.

…or any religious orders or congregations.

 

[Zooey]

Bottom line is we should not take actions of small groups as representative of the actual religion. Because almost all religions have bad actions by people in their history but are not actually part of their Religious teaching. I don’t mind discussing the issue but I don’t appreciate these “one-liners” used solely to defame any religion.

…or any religious orders or congregations.

I agree with both of you. (I speak as one who once had a Baptist pastor arrogantly–and ignorantly–rattle on about “you Methodists, you believe…” and it was all out of the top of his hat!
I think it just shows that some people will say anything to score points. (And hope no one calls them on it…)

 

[Hail_Linus]

I agree with both of you. (I speak as one who once had a Baptist pastor arrogantly–and ignorantly–rattle on about “you Methodists, you believe…” and it was all out of the top of his hat!
I think it just shows that some people will say anything to score points. (And hope no one calls them on it…)

That kind of reminds me of the movie “A River Runs Through It” where the father, played by Tom Skerritt, is a Presbyterian Minister and in one scene he says “Methodists are nothing more than Baptists incognito.”

 

[chosen_people]

A certain poster brought up the topic of Jesuits proclaiming that any person with Jewish ancestry, no matter how distant, could not join the Jesuit order and that this stayed in force until 1946.

I can tell this person got this little blurp from wikipedia which cites "The Jesuit Order as a Synagogue of Jews (Studies in Medieval and Reformation Traditions) by Robert A. Maryks.

I do not know if this is true or not, I have not had a chance to really research this. However, I do know the book explicitly states the founder of the Jesuits, St. Ignatius of Loyola, and his successor were against this. This problem did not occur until later. Anyway, assuming this allegation is true it does not present a problem to Catholicism but rather to bad Catholics. We have always had, and still do, the problem of religious orders do things contrary to Catholicism. In fact, while there are many good Jesuit priests, it is no secret that many of them are now on the extreme left, i.e. advocating communism, homosexuality activity, women priests, etc.

I happen to know the poster and given his extensive academic background and library I find it highly unlikely that he relied on such a prosaic and unreliable source as Wikipedia.

My guess is that his source is Professor David Kertzer’s book “The Popes against the Jews” Part Two Chapter 10 “Race” which discusses whether there is a racial element in past Church hostility toward Jews.

“It was in the sixteenth century that a Spaniard, Ignatius Loyola, founded the Jesuit order. Although initially some of its most important recruits came from among the descendants of Jews who had been forcibly converted in Spain, the Jesuits soon put an end to this. In 1592 they introduced a rule forbidding the admission of men of Jewish origin, calculating ancestry to the fifth generation. The rule was only expunged in 1946, having often been cited by both the Nazis and Italian Fascists to demonstrate that their own racial policies merely echoed those of the Church’s most respected religious order” (pg. 207)
(Kertzer then goes on to discuss this concept of tainted Jewish blood in the case of Archbishop Theodor Kohn)

 

[Hail_Linus]

I happen to know the poster and given his extensive academic background and library I find it highly unlikely that he relied on such a prosaic and unreliable source as Wikipedia.

My guess is that his source is Professor David Kertzer’s book “The Popes against the Jews” Part Two Chapter 10 “Race” which discusses whether there is a racial element in past Church hostility toward Jews.

“It was in the sixteenth century that a Spaniard, Ignatius Loyola, founded the Jesuit order. Although initially some of its most important recruits came from among the descendants of Jews who had been forcibly converted in Spain, the Jesuits soon put an end to this. In 1592 they introduced a rule forbidding the admission of men of Jewish origin, calculating ancestry to the fifth generation. The rule was only expunged in 1946, having often been cited by both the Nazis and Italian Fascists to demonstrate that their own racial policies merely echoed those of the Church’s most respected religious order” (pg. 207)
(Kertzer then goes on to discuss this concept of tainted Jewish blood in the case of Archbishop Theodor Kohn)

I guess I gave too much credit to the poster. The book cited by the Wikipedia Article is a legitimate book which costs about $150. David Kertzer’s book “The Popes against the Jews” is a ridiculous little $12 anti-catholic book that tries to rewrite history and has been condemned by many, many Rabbis. I have my own extensive academic background and personal library.

Just look at the paragraph you quote and notice how it spins the issue. It does not state flat out that the founder and his successor were against it. This policy was something that directly contrary to the orders founder as well as against Catholic teaching as a whole.

Most likely this policy was simply put in place by cowards. Most people think the Catholic Church instigated the Spanish Inquisition. Well the truth is that it was instigated by the Catholic Laity, which cause the Spanish gov’t to get involved, which caused the Church in Spain to get involved. The Church in Spain was probably very abusive because Priests and Bishops with Jewish blood were being threatened and they were scared. The worst of them was Tomas Torquemada, also of Jewish ancestry. The Vatican had to step in to calm the situation. It did not have the authority to stop the Spanish Gov’t and its secular laws but it was able to impose limits.

The whole Nazi thing was a result of Nietzsche and the whole Eugenics movement in Germany and England. This is really sad. How did we go from Golda Meir and Albert Einstein praising the Pope Pius XII as doing more to help the Jews than anyone else to this anti-Catholic nonsense.

How would you like it if I blamed the Jews for all of the Catholic persecution by socialist and communists? Afterall, Karl Marx was a Jew wasn’t? Of course this argument would be as ridiculous.

“The Popes against the Jews” is as ridiculous as the literature I have been given by idiots that insist the Holocaust never happened.

Anyway, the bottom line is there never has been Church Hostility towards the Jews. There has only been Catholic Individuals and groups that have been hostile toward the Jews and the Church has always had to deal with them. Even the expulsion from Spain was an act of the Spanish gov’t not the Church.