Jesuits and the L.O.C

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Adam_S

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Hello,

I know this board has got slightly inflammatory recently, but i thought id try with this post anyway.

Im 20 and have been discerning for the priesthood for about a year. Its a definite that im being called to the priesthood (hurrah!), and until recently i was pretty sure on the Jesuits. I wont go into the looonngg boring reasons, but i love Ignatius and his spirituality, the idea of being ‘the SAS of te priesthood’ and generally being on the frontline of everything in a very orthodox order, is something i feel called to.

However, i know that there is a lot of heresy swishing around the Jesuits, and my parish priest was talking to me, and mentioned the L.O.C who i know relatively little about. He said for an orthodox order whos on the frontline, the LOC have pretty much taken over Ivebeen on their web site and while they are making nice noises (one thing which is important to me is the constant wearing of the collar - something the jesuits dont really go for now) a lot of its very vague (i.e Christ is at the centre of our lives - well yes id kind of expect that really!)

I just wanted to know a little bit more about them, exactly WHAT they do (i.e are they mission based like the Jesuits?) and what comparisons (similarities and differences) can be made between the LOC and the jesuits,

I know this is a bit of a ‘me me me’ post, but perhaps it mightspark an interesting debate as well.

Thanks for responses in advance

Adam
 
The best way to get to know an order (any order) is to spend time with them. Find some Jesuits and L.C.'s in your area and get to know them. Both offer retreats frequently - go to them.

As an aside, I was looking at some numbers the other day - the Jesuits are still the largest order in the world - but they have lost a full 1/3 of their size since 1970.

Jesuits 1970 - 2004
Members 34k - 20k
Priests 21k - 14k

L.C.'s are much smaller and much newer (founder is still living). Their trend is in the opposite direction. More than 3 times the members and 9 times the priests since 1970.

L.C.'s 1970 - 2004
Members 485 - 1845
Priests 68 - 588

(data from the Annuario Pontificio 1971 and 2005)
 
David has some great advice, take your time and get to know both SJ’s and LC’s individually. I myself can fall into the trap of thinking things like, “LC’s are what the SJ’s used to be,” and the situation is a lot more complicated than that.

An excellent book about the Jesuits is, “In Good Company: From the Corporate World to Poverty, Chastity and Obedience,” by James Martin, SJ, an editor at America magazine. He tells the story of how he went from a great job in the corporate world to feeling called to something more spiritual. It’s a great book for anyone considering a religious vocation.

You also might want to read “Passionate Uncertainty: Inside the American Jesuits” by Peter McDonough and Eugene Bianchi, although it must be said that Bianchi is an ex-Jesuit and every Jesuit I know was very disappointed in this critical and lengthy book. “PU” touches on contemporary tensions in the SJ’s and some mission shift away from universities and toward high schools and parish and social justice work. The Jesuits had a record year for vocations in 2004, and while they are well below their highpoint in the 1950’s and 1960’s, a lot of Jesuit novitiates are approaching their pre-World War II numbers from the 1930’s and 1940’s, which some would argue is a more accurate statistical comparison.

The LC’s are growing but still a fraction of the size of the SJ’s, and you should know that they have been criticized as cultish and controlling. I had a friend who left them years ago as a novice because he thought every minute detail of his life was controlled. I don’t know any books on the LC’s, but read whatever you can find and talk to as many LC’s as you can.

The LC’s formation takes place in Connecticut I think. Jesuits typically join with other provinces and travel nationwide in the course of their formation, which you should know still takes a decade before ordination. Both the Jesuits and the Legionaires practice poverty pretty intensely in my opinion; it’s very different from diocesan formation. Hope this helps, and God bless you in your future–
 
Adam S:
Im 20 and have been discerning for the priesthood for about a year. Its a definite that im being called to the priesthood (hurrah!), and until recently i was pretty sure on the Jesuits. I wont go into the looonngg boring reasons, but i love Ignatius and his spirituality, the idea of being ‘the SAS of te priesthood’ and generally being on the frontline of everything in a very orthodox order, is something i feel called to.
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Hi Adam,

The Society of Jesus was developed to stop the Protestant reformation. The Jesuits organized the Inquisition while the Domincans and the Benedictines did the actual ‘hands on’ work. The Jesuits also became the intellectual elite of Catholicism to intelligently debate the Protestants. But that was back in 1600 and the Jesuits today have become hidebound and mainstream. They no longer serve the same purpose as they once did. The same can be said of all the orders which were once innovative and pragmatic, and now have all basically the same purpose. At one time the monastic orders were the seat of higher education and Priests served as the civil service for the Kings and Emporers, but that lessened over time with the development of the secular universities in the 1220s. The monastaries no longer held a monopoly on learning.

Today, Opus Dei and the *Legionairies of Christ *seem to be the new cutting edge orders once held by the Jesuits. Yet the L.O.C. have had a nice fat juicy homosexual abuse scandal themselves? One of my buddies here in the Boston area recently had to transfer out of a seminary because of his out-spoken opinions against homosexuality which was rife in that seminary, he wasn’t going to get a passing grade from the head seminarian.

So good for you wanting to become a Priest at such a young age (at 20 I was a Navy diver). Pick a good order (like the Franciscans hint hint).
 
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m134e5:
LC? SAS? Don’t assume everyone knows these abbreviations.:confused:
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LC or L.C. = Legionaries of Christ

SAS or S.A.S. = Special Air Service (British Army special forces) like U.S. Navy S.E.A.L.S. or Army Green Berets.

The Society of Jesus (a.k.a. The dreaded Jesuits) were formed in 1600 by ex-soldier Francis Loyola as a no-nonsense orthodox Catholic Priesthood with the special task of quelching the Protestant reformation through higher intelligence and scholarship plus the Inquisition. The Jesuits were a swat team against protestants.
 
Yet the L.O.C. have had a nice fat juicy homosexual abuse scandal themselves? One of my buddies here in the Boston area recently had to transfer out of a seminary because of his out-spoken opinions against homosexuality which was rife in that seminary, he wasn’t going to get a passing grade from the head seminarian.

Are you saying that homosexuality was rife at a Legionary of Christ seminary?

If you make this claim, please tell us which seminary.

Are Franciscans faithful to the Magisterium?
 
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yinekka:
Are you saying that homosexuality was rife at a Legionary of Christ seminary?
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No. At ‘a’ seminary here in the Boston area.
If you make this claim, please tell us which seminary.
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Letters have already been written. Its up to the archdiocese now.
Are Franciscans faithful to the Magisterium?
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I hope so. I’m trying to be an OFM.
 
Kevin, you might want to edit your post because to me it reads as I questioned.
 
I have two buddies who are in the Jesuits. They are both very orthodox, and they say that many of the seminarians are further right than they are - and they considered themselves pretty conservative/

The face of the Jesuits is changing.
 
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Windmill:
The face of the Jesuits is changing.
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Is that a relative comparison to the other Cathoic orders? Because at one time the Jesuits were extremely conservative, and now I find them to be disturbingly liberal. They might be conservative compared to the other Catholic orders which are liberal.

It was a Jesuit Priest named David C. Murphy who showed up at my street corner one day in the early 70s as a ‘street priest’ and ended up seducing two of the guys, and he was arrested in 2002 with over 60 complaints against him in the Boston sexual abuse scandal. It was also a Jesuit teacher at Boston College High School who got busted for sexual abuse against one of his male students. So the Jesuit reputation here in Boston kinda got kicked in the teeth.
 
Why don’t all Catholic orders and diocesan seminaries try to screen out homosexuals? I know in my diocese, when I was trying to discern my vocation several years ago, the homosexual question was asked in my first discussion with a priest. I assume if I had pursued a priestly vocation, more intense questioning would have ensued.

So, why aren’t these questions being asked of potential seminarians so that the predatory homosexual priest problem can be nipped in the bud? I know that wouldn’t eliminate all men with same sex attraction, but it would certainly exclude many.

Or maybe some orders and seminaries are just sticking their heads in the sand, hoping the problem goes away on its own? :rolleyes:
 
Dr. Bombay:
Why don’t all Catholic orders and diocesan seminaries try to screen out homosexuals? I know in my diocese, when I was trying to discern my vocation several years ago, the homosexual question was asked in my first discussion with a priest. I assume if I had pursued a priestly vocation, more intense questioning would have ensued.

So, why aren’t these questions being asked of potential seminarians so that the predatory homosexual priest problem can be nipped in the bud? I know that wouldn’t eliminate all men with same sex attraction, but it would certainly exclude many.

Or maybe some orders and seminaries are just sticking their heads in the sand, hoping the problem goes away on its own? :rolleyes:
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I can only draw a Navy analogy. I joined the Navy at 18, and it is strictly forbidden for homosexuals to join the Navy. Yet we had so many homosexuals on my ship we called it the ‘Love Boat’. So how do homosexuals get in the Navy when they aren’t allowed? They lie!
I would guess its the same for Catholic seminaries. Homosexuals have always been unwanted in the Priesthood. So they lie about it, and allow themselves to be ordained under false pretenses, and live a lie as Priests. As Priests, homosexuals have their basic needs taken cared for them, are in an all male environment, and can form secret cabals and societies distorting male commaraderie for something else. The homosexual infiltration of the Catholic Church continues dispite the sexual abuse scandal.
It will take a battery of psychological exams to filter out the homosexuals who lie about their ‘abomination’ and not just the simple M.M.P.I. (Minnesota Multi-Phasic Personality Inventory) which anyone can beat.
 
Kevin Walker:
I can only draw a Navy analogy. I joined the Navy at 18, and it is strictly forbidden for homosexuals to join the Navy. Yet we had so many homosexuals on my ship we called it the ‘Love Boat’. So how do homosexuals get in the Navy when they aren’t allowed? They lie!
I would guess its the same for Catholic seminaries. Homosexuals have always been unwanted in the Priesthood. So they lie about it, and allow themselves to be ordained under false pretenses, and live a lie as Priests. As Priests, homosexuals have their basic needs taken cared for them, are in an all male environment, and can form secret cabals and societies distorting male commaraderie for something else. The homosexual infiltration of the Catholic Church continues dispite the sexual abuse scandal.
It will take a battery of psychological exams to filter out the homosexuals who lie about their ‘abomination’ and not just the simple M.M.P.I. (Minnesota Multi-Phasic Personality Inventory) which anyone can beat.
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Well, yes, I assumed they were lying. But I had hoped the “battery of psychological exams” that you mentioned would have been instituted in at least some seminaries. Too politically incorrect for some bishops, I guess. Maybe a few more bankruptcies will wake them up.

But like I say, I’m comforted that, at least in my diocese (not exactly known for its “conservatism” or “orthodoxy”) the question is being asked.
 
Dr. Bombay:
Well, yes, I assumed they were lying. But I had hoped the “battery of psychological exams” that you mentioned would have been instituted in at least some seminaries. Too politically incorrect for some bishops, I guess. Maybe a few more bankruptcies will wake them up.

But like I say, I’m comforted that, at least in my diocese (not exactly known for its “conservatism” or “orthodoxy”) the question is being asked.
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The Abbeys of the three orders I have been exploring: the Franciscan, Benedictine, and Trappists, only have the M.M.P.A. listed as a psych exam. I think a lot more should be required. The simple question: Are you now or ever have been a homosexual?; just doesn’t suffice.
 
Kevin Walker:
The Abbeys of the three orders I have been exploring: the Franciscan, Benedictine, and Trappists, only have the M.M.P.A. listed as a psych exam. I think a lot more should be required. The simple question: Are you now or ever have been a homosexual?; just doesn’t suffice.
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Agreed. There’s different types of homosexuals too. Active homosexuals, formerly active homosexuals and men attracted to men who have never actually had sex with a man. One “yes or no” question can’t weed all of them out.
 
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