Jesuits -- Why are they supposedly liberal?

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I know that there are Jesuits who are faithful to the Church teaching out there… however the last time I sat in a meeting with a Jesuit at a Jesuit “Catholic” college my husband asked if the school and the professors there were loyal to the teachings of the Magesterium and he started to laugh, because he really didn’t think that it was a serious question… His answer… “of course not.”
Maybe because such universities try to limit their religious teachings to the right places? Sorry but I take pride that my Jesuit-run Catholic University accepts all kinds of teachers/students whether they be Protestant, Catholic, Muslim, Liberal, or Conservative. The emphasis has always been in the quality of education first and then religious stuff second.

However, if you were to step into a Theology class, you will find a great deal that is being taught is still the Catholic viewpoint. That’s the beauty of it. It gives you the choice of whether or not you really are interested in learning about the faith (via picking the subjects through your courses) or simply wanna come out as a nurse, accountant with no religious strings attached etc.
 
Maybe because such universities try to limit their religious teachings to the right places? Sorry but I take pride that my Jesuit-run Catholic University accepts all kinds of teachers/students whether they be Protestant, Catholic, Muslim, Liberal, or Conservative. The emphasis has always been in the quality of education first and then religious stuff second.

However, if you were to step into a Theology class, you will find a great deal that is being taught is still the Catholic viewpoint. That’s the beauty of it. It gives you the choice of whether or not you really are interested in learning about the faith (via picking the subjects through your courses) or simply wanna come out as a nurse, accountant with no religious strings attached etc.
Nicely put, Lost Wanderer!

My daughter attends a Jesuit Catholic college, and although students must take at least one theology class, religious teachings aren’t necessary for her chosen major. If she wants religious instruction, she can go to church. She doesn’t give a flying rat’s patootie about if the Brothers/Fathers/Sisters do or don’t follow specific Catholic doctrines to the letter…as far as she’s concerned, it’s still a far cry from “liberal.”

Miz
 
It is also very wrong for anyone outside of a religious order to say that said religious does not belong in the order or should be called a Catholic. That’s overstepping the boundaries.
I am sorry for making such a statement…I was wrong and did not think my statement through before posting. To any I may have offended I offer my sincerest apologies.
 
For instance, the Passionists have a presence at the United Nations, an organisation that I believe to be most un-religious, very secularised and non-friendly to anything to do with Christianity, let alone Catholicism. They are the only Catholic presence there as far as I know.
Actually there are several dozen religious institutes who have an NGO (non-governmental organisation) at the United Nations, including my own Order of Carmelites.

As Brother JR explains above, some of them are there at the behest of the Vatican to represent particular concerns; others have made an independent choice to establish a presence and to lobby on key issues. As an example, in recent years the Carmelite NGO has mounted a campaign to end human trafficking.

See: carmelitengo.org/

These NGOs are not always well-publicised, and it is no surprise that many Catholics haven’t heard of them. :o
 
Actually there are several dozen religious institutes who have an NGO (non-governmental organisation) at the United Nations, including my own Order of Carmelites.

As Brother JR explains above, some of them are there at the behest of the Vatican to represent particular concerns; others have made an independent choice to establish a presence and to lobby on key issues. As an example, in recent years the Carmelite NGO has mounted a campaign to end human trafficking.

See: carmelitengo.org/

These NGOs are not always well-publicised, and it is no surprise that many Catholics haven’t heard of them. :o
Wow! Several dozen! I had no idea. 😊

I stand corrected.
 
Maybe because such universities try to limit their religious teachings to the right places? Sorry but I take pride that my Jesuit-run Catholic University accepts all kinds of teachers/students whether they be Protestant, Catholic, Muslim, Liberal, or Conservative. The emphasis has always been in the quality of education first and then religious stuff second.

However, if you were to step into a Theology class, you will find a great deal that is being taught is still the Catholic viewpoint. That’s the beauty of it. It gives you the choice of whether or not you really are interested in learning about the faith (via picking the subjects through your courses) or simply wanna come out as a nurse, accountant with no religious strings attached etc.
With all due respect to the university, the primary reason for the existence of Catholic universities and colleges is the teaching of the faith and teaching academics in an enviornment that is truly Catholic. This is not a choice that we have. This is a mandate from the Vatican.

I heard the following from one of the Jesuit Provincials. What has happened to the Jesuit colleges and universities is that they surrendered control to boards in order to get federal funding that was badly needed in order to keep tuitioin down as much as possible. Under federal law, any religious university must keep the number of religious and clergy on the board down to 1/3 of the membership. This allowed the boards to take control of the universities. Even though the Jesuits own the property, they no longer own the isntitution.

No one expected the Federal Government to pull this prank. The Jesuits really wanted to improve the quality of the academics. They never wanted to place religious studies as second at their schools. They were forced to do so by their colleagues on these boards that control the schools.

Fortunately, Franciscans and Dominicans were watching what was going on, before they proceeded to request Federal assistance and grants. When they saw the outcome they backed off. I can’t speak for the Dominicans. I know that at our Franciscan universities in the USA the spread of the faith is the primary function of the school. It’s secondary function is the teaching of Franciscan spirituality and its third are the academic disciplines. But our General Superior said that he would close down all of the Franciscan colleges, universities and high schools in the USA if the faith and Franciscan spirituality did not occupy the place of honor at our schools. For this reason, any student at any of our colleges must take a year of philosophy, a year of theology and a year of Franciscan studies. In order to graduate, all students must complete a certain number of hours in ministry. I know that it’s not many, because most students do it in one semester. But it exposes the students to ministry. The other insistance of our Superior General is that the Chancellor of our colleges, universities and high schools must always be one of our brothers. No lay person may ever run any of our schools. Lay theologians must all sign the Mandatum. The students must all agree to study the Catholic faith, even if they are not Catholic. These courses are not optional. What they did was reduce the number of electives by six credits to insert six credits in Roman Catholic theology as graduation requirements for every discipline.

The threat is still hanging over the head of the faculy, parents and students. The Superior General will close the schools if they move away from the faith and from the Franciscan traditions. He has already closed six universities around the world. The students were given one semester to find another school. The properties are empty, because we do not own the properties on which our schools stand. Because of the Rule of St. Francis, those properties are legally owned by the Vatican. Even then, the lay boards and parents have no authority over the use of the property.

This had kept most of our schools faithful to Church teaching and has limited the selection of students to those who are willing to put in the time learning about the Catholic faith, even if they are not Catholic.

I know that Catholic University of America also requires every student to take one year of Catholic philosophy and one year of Catholic theology, regardless of their degree. This mandate came from the Vatican, because even though the university is run by a Board of Governors, the Vatican insisted that 51% of the Board be members of religious orders, the chancellor must always be the Archbishop of Washington and the ownership of the university belongs to Vatican City. CUA is officially a Pontifical University. You can feel it in the enviornment when you visit there. There are masses going on throughout the day into the evening, daily confessions, daily adoration of the Blessed Sacrament, Praise and Worhsip meetings for those who like the charismatic prayer form and more traditional prayer services for others.

None of these universities have sacrificed academics. They have simply put academics in their place in relation to religious formation.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
I heard the following from one of the Jesuit Provincials. What has happened to the Jesuit colleges and universities is that they surrendered control to boards in order to get federal funding that was badly needed in order to keep tuitioin down as much as possible. Under federal law, any religious university must keep the number of religious and clergy on the board down to 1/3 of the membership. This allowed the boards to take control of the universities. Even though the Jesuits own the property, they no longer own the isntitution.

No one expected the Federal Government to pull this prank. The Jesuits really wanted to improve the quality of the academics. They never wanted to place religious studies as second at their schools. They were forced to do so by their colleagues on these boards that control the schools.
Well you have a point, that does sound a lot like what happened here. However, I’m not sure if my university runs on federal funding. It’s a private institution but also regarded as one of the best in my country. It also takes pride in being the most open compared to other religious-run universities, which is why our diversity is comparable to ones like UP.

I think maybe that instead of federal funding, it’s simply a matter of how much extra money comes from taking in minority groups. Furthermore, I live in Mindanao which has a long history of conflict between Muslim and Catholic Filipinos so rejecting non-Catholics (Muslims in particular) might actually jeopardize the branch I attend (socially or even physically).

Still, the financial urgency is probably the same. Whatever the Franciscans had that made them go a little longer without needing extra cash, the Jesuits sure didn’t have it. :\
 
Thanks for your lucid and fair-minded summary. Thinking apparently has become a crime among some in the church. Far easier to nod in agreement without considering the questions which are posed.
 
Were Peter and Paul liberals? They certainly offered a different interpretation of the relationship between Jewish law and Christian life.

As it was in the beginning, is now and will be forever and ever. Amen.
 
@ Lost Wanderer

You mentioned what the different Franciscan obediences had that helped them hold out longer. I believe that there are server differences between Franciscans and Jesuits that affect the way that we run our institutions. Most lay people do not know this. Most probably do not care, even if they did know. I don’t mean to sound bitter, but the truth in our country is that many lay Catholics are only interested in religious communities when someone messes up. When we do things well, which is more often than when we mess up, no one really pays attention.

One of the things that the Francisans do differently from the Jesuits is to place a distance between them and the laity. By tradition, Franciscans have a very strong bond among ourselves as a community of brothers frist and ministers to others second. We do not engage in any ministry that interferes with our relationship with each other as brothers and as a family. If a ministry begins to interfere with that, we drop it like a hot potato. Our vocation is to live according to the mind of St. Francis, not to run parishes, schools, hospitals and other institutions. But to live the Gospel in brotherhood, then everything flows from there.

Therefore, we have never been caught up in very large universities, as have the Jesuits. Because those universities do not allow for much of a brotherhood. Everyone is running on a different schedule, etc. The Jesuits are not organized around the idea of brotherhood. They are a military order. They are organized around the mission at hand. If that means to run a school and make it the best in the world, that’s what they do. That’s the will and vision of St. Ignatius. Common life and common prayer is secondary in the mind of Ignatius. Prayer can be individual and common life is like military life, you support your brothers to accomplish a mission. Franciscans live to love their brothers, when there is and where there is not a mission.

By keeping colleges and universities small, in order to preserve the community life, the different Franciscan communities have managed to avoid the many expenses that the larger Jesuit schools have. For example, in the entire world, you can count on one hand the number of medical and law schools at Franciscan univesities. You can count on the other hand the amount of research that goes on at Franciscan univesities. Most Franciscan universities operate on a very French model. The focus is on the humanities.

In addition, Franciscans of the different obediences, all have this single-minded fidelity to St. Francis. The purpose of opening schools, colleges, parishes and other ministries is to teach the Gospel in the manner of St. Francis. This is a very focussed approach. You will not find other spiritualities and other theologies in Franciscan schools, colleges, parishes and ministries. The Jesuits are much more global. They were founded to be so. Ignatius did not found them around his vision of the Gospel, as Francis founded his order. Ignatius founded the Jesuits around a more universal vision of the Gospel. Both approaches are good and legitimate. But the Jesuit approach is more expensive.

You will find that many universities take the Jesuit approach, even if they are not Jesuit. For example, Notre Dame is Holy Cross Brothers. But their model is very Jesuit: scholarly, global and expansive.

The more you expand into the different areas of academia, the more it costs and the more points of view that will enter your university. It all goes hand in hand.

Originally, the idea of handing over the universities to Boards of Trustees sounded good. The original boards were made up of very good Catholics, most of whom supported the vision and mission of the religious orders that founded these schools. But as time passed, these boards were replaced by others who do not understand the vision and mission of St. Ignatius and his sons or who do not support it. Once you have signed the paperwork, the law binds you to work with these boards.

The religious cannot abandon these schools either. Why not? Let’s take the Jesuits. They are a religious order in solemn vows. Religious orders who profess solemn vows, which are not many, but those that do are not allowed to own property. Every piece of property that they own really belongs to the Holy See, even though the dead says Society of Jesus, Franciscans, Dominicans, or Benedictines. You cannot give away what you do not own. You cannot sell it either.

These orders cannot give the property on which the school sits to the Board or sell it to the Board. Canonically, it does not belong to the religious nor to the diocese. It belongs to the Holy See. Legally, you write the deed according to the civil laws of the country in which you buy the property. This like you buying a car for your child who is in college. Legally you own it. But the truth is that it’s your child’s car. Legally, the Jesuits own the property, but the truth is that they own it for the Holy See.

Now you have a school on Church property. When that school dissents, you have a problem. You cannot close it, because only the Board of Trustees can close it. You cannot abandon it, because you cannot abandon property for which you have assumed stewardship. Now you’re stuck. You have to do the best you can.

That’s the picture around the world. The solution right now is to try to get Boards that are supportive of Catholic teaching and who will demand that professors are faithful to Catholic teaching. It’s quite a challenge. Many of the men and women who serve on these boards are not going to give up control to the Church so readily. I don’t think it’s a matter of money. I don’t think that there is any gain involved for the Board. I think it’s a matter of pride and power.

Pride and power are strong forces in human nature.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Until very recently, Jesuit educational institutions were known to be more conservative than other Catholic school.

Case in point: Loyola Chicago vs DePaul U, in Chicago.

DePaul has been very lax in its Catholic identity and teaching for some time now. Until very recently, Loyola had been a fairly traditional Catholic bastion (compared to other nearby Catholic schools in the area).

Now, the SJs seem to have changed and jumped on the moral relativism bandwagon to increase student enrollment.

It’s bad for a school to be exclusive. It’s also bad for a school to promote ideology and activities that are not aligned with Catholic teachings.
 
Until very recently, Jesuit educational institutions were known to be more conservative than other Catholic school.

Case in point: Loyola Chicago vs DePaul U, in Chicago.

DePaul has been very lax in its Catholic identity and teaching for some time now. Until very recently, Loyola had been a fairly traditional Catholic bastion (compared to other nearby Catholic schools in the area).

Now, the SJs seem to have changed and jumped on the moral relativism bandwagon to increase student enrollment.

It’s bad for a school to be exclusive. It’s also bad for a school to promote ideology and activities that are not aligned with Catholic teachings.
I would only caution you against doing damage to the good name of another. The Society of Jesus has over 18,000 men. To say “the Jesuits” is inaccuate. That’s like saying, “Black people” or “Catholics” or “Muslins”.

We cannot speak in generalities like that. That’s unjust and does damage to the Society of Jesus. They do very good work for the Church and have produced many saints. There are many holy and intelligent young men looking to join them. By speaking about them as if they were a corrupt organization, we can inadvertantly destroy a vocation to the Jesuits.

If you want to name a school run by the Jesuits, that’s fine. But don’t point the finger at 18,000 very good men. Stop and consider how many of those 18,000 are involved in that school and how many of those involved in the school have any say over what goes on in the school.

Having been a college dean I can tell you that we have very little say in what goes on. That’s how I became JR education. Because my brothers used to call me JR and education because I was a professor and later a dean. Deans do not have much power. We’re like over educated principals. There are at least four layers of authority over us:
  1. The faculty senate
  2. The student senate
  3. The Provost
  4. The Academic Dean
  5. The Office of the President
  6. The Board of Trustees
  7. The Chanceloor
OK, I lied, seven layers of authority over a dean. Even the president is under the Board and the Chancellor. The Chancellor is rather interesting, because he doesn’t really have any power over the whole school. The charter spells out what power he has. Many bishops are chancellors of schools in their dioceses and people wonder why the bishop doesn’t do this or that. The reason can be either he does not want to do so or he cannot do so, because the charter won’t allow him.

Schools run by religious orders are a little different, because the chacellor is usually one of the religious. The local bishop has zero authority. He does not vote or participate in meetings of the Board unless he’s on the Board of Trustees, such as is the case in some schools where the local bishop is asked to be on the Board. The he has one vote.

Anyway, the point that I was making was to remember that the Jesuits are very big. As Franciscans we have always had a very special love and respect for the Jesuits, because they have always paved the way for our missionaries. They have done a good job doing so. The very first to do so was Francis Xavier. Here is an interesting thing. Francis Xavier wrote a letter to his Jesuit superior saying that unless Catholicism became less European it would have little or no success in Japan. As a result, when the first Franciscans went to Japan they removed their Franciscan habits and dressed a coolies (sp?). This was the practice until the time of St. Maximilian Kolbe. There are some wonderful photos of him in Japanese dress. The Franciscan habit was not seen in Japan until after WW II. Francis Xavier also built many churches to resemble Japanese temples. At the time , no on thought about it, because no one in Europe knew about what Francis Xavier was doing until the Jesuits came back from Japan.

Today we have the benefit of internet. Sometimes that’s not a good thing. Gossip can also spread, not just good news.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Were Peter and Paul liberals? They certainly offered a different interpretation of the relationship between Jewish law and Christian life.

As it was in the beginning, is now and will be forever and ever. Amen.
They offered a different interpretation precisely because of the revelation of the fullness of Truth brought about by Christ. There is a world of difference between Peter and Paul & the modern day dissidents(be they jesuits, franciscans, bishops, priests, deacons, laity…etc) who want to promote their own version of catholicism…

In Christ,
Zachary
 
If you want to name a school run by the Jesuits, that’s fine. But don’t point the finger at 18,000 very good men. Stop and consider how many of those 18,000 are involved in that school and how many of those involved in the school have any say over what goes on in the school.
There aren’t 18,000 “very good men” at the school I mentioned. There are probabaly 25 Jesuits at any given time in addition to the president. I brought up LUC specifically as an example of how religious groups and schools can go the liberal way.

alumni.luc.edu/site/PageServer?pagename=Alumni_Connect_Const_LGBTQ_Events

“Help the LGBTQ Alumni Board raise money for the LGBTQ Alumni Fund, which sponsors the Loyola Community in LGBTQ efforts and scholarships…”

“Loyola University Chicago Posts Internship for Planned Parenthood Position”

ewtn.com/vnews/getstory.asp?number=99680

They very well could have a say in these matters.
 
Thank you Br. JR! Your posts have been very, very thoughtful, moderating and insightful. The purpose of a Catholic university is to help one think and grow in one’s understanding of faith.

One point omitted on this thread is the fact that we are at a period of time where there is no one particular philosophical view that guides the church’s teaching. While it’s true we still depend heavily on a Thomistic referent point we are not per se strict Thomists any longer.

Several important influences including Bernard Lonergan, S.J., the correctives to the human sciences found from people like Fr. Adrian Van Kaam (approaches to psychology) and the embrace of the human sciences have led us to think differently. Lonergan and Van Kaam were certainly influenced by Thomistic thought. Lonergan introduced us to an epistemology worthy of the 20th and 21st centuries. And as he said “…it would take the church 100 years to catch up to what he was saying”.

Thanks again for your calm presence on this thread.
 
And the “fullness of truth about Christ” has continued to evolve over the centuries. What Peter and Paul understood and preached in the 1st century, was clarified in the 4th century given the questions and issues facing the church then and which continues to be clarified down to the present. It stays the same, but is clarified - again and again and again.

Recall that Jesus told the apostles that the Spirit would guide them to fullness of truth…but he never said when that would take place. Therefore the Holy Spirit is constantly at work in the church guiding her in all ways.
 
There aren’t 18,000 “very good men” at the school I mentioned. **There are probabaly 25 Jesuits at any given time **in addition to the president. I brought up LUC specifically as an example of how religious groups and schools can go the liberal way.

alumni.luc.edu/site/PageServer?pagename=Alumni_Connect_Const_LGBTQ_Events

“Help the LGBTQ Alumni Board raise money for the LGBTQ Alumni Fund, which sponsors the Loyola Community in LGBTQ efforts and scholarships…”

“Loyola University Chicago Posts Internship for Planned Parenthood Position”

ewtn.com/vnews/getstory.asp?number=99680

They very well could have a say in these matters.
The highlight is mine.

You have made the point that I’m trying to make for all of us. In the school of which you speak there are about 25/18000 Jesuits. That is 0.1% of the Jesuit population. Therefore, it’s unfair to say “The Jesuits”.

I’m a Franciscan. We’re the largest religious family in the Church with a total of 1.7 million divided into five obediences. I know that we have a number of lose canons, as does any large family. But I would be very offended if someone said, “The Franciscans”, because the friars at Franciscan University did something that people did not like or something that is really foolish. I’ll give a perfect example. There are about 50 friars at Franciscan University. Even if all of them were involved in some ludicrous project or endeavor. that’s 50 out of 1.7 million, divided into five obediences and 114 branches of the order. For example, the Franciscans in Italy have nothing to do with the Franciscans at Franciscan University. They’re not even the same obedience. The same is true for the Jesuits.

I have no idea how many obediences of Jesuits there are. But I do know that there are many. It is not nice to use the name of the Society for a few people who belong to the Society.

Also, neither of these stories say that the Society of Jesus has any say in these matters. They mention that these are situations at Jesuit schools. That part is true. Can the Society do anything to change it? Probably not without violating all kinds of Church law and civil law. The civil law is not as important as Church law.

But just a reminder, if the school is run by a Board of Trustees, then it is not run by the Jesuits. They are the face on the poster.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
And the “fullness of truth about Christ” has continued to evolve over the centuries. What Peter and Paul understood and preached in the 1st century, was clarified in the 4th century given the questions and issues facing the church then and which continues to be clarified down to the present. It stays the same, but is clarified - again and again and again.

Recall that Jesus told the apostles that the Spirit would guide them to fullness of truth…but he never said when that would take place. Therefore the Holy Spirit is constantly at work in the church guiding her in all ways.
I believe that you’re trying to say that our understanding and our explanation of truth evolves, not the truth itself. Truth is static.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Right - exactly - our understanding of truth evolves over time. Good correction. Thanks.
 
Fascinating thread! (For two main reasons: 1) I had the good fortune of getting to know an excellent Jesuit priest who was working in my parish during my grad school years. 2) Our family is currently going through the college choice process for my son.)

Many thanks to so many thoughtful contributors! 👍
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