Jesuits

  • Thread starter Thread starter Tracy_Spenst
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
T

Tracy_Spenst

Guest
I’m curious if there are, any longer, any Jesuit seminaries that are faithful to the Church and the Jesuit tradition? My kids are always so disappointed to learn where the Jesuit order is today after they read about St. Ignatius, St. Isaac Jorgues, etc. Although I can point them toward a few faithful Jesuit priests, it seems that most have passed on or are up in age.
 
After winter there is always spring just pray they have an early one. 🙂
 
Fr. Mitch Pacwa is a Jesuit 🙂

Something I am noticing in the current generation of religious vocations is that the younger crowd is seeking hard-core orthodox Catholic teachings. That is very promising.
 
I’m curious if there are, any longer, any Jesuit seminaries that are faithful to the Church and the Jesuit tradition? My kids are always so disappointed to learn where the Jesuit order is today after they read about St. Ignatius, St. Isaac Jorgues, etc. Although I can point them toward a few faithful Jesuit priests, it seems that most have passed on or are up in age.
In the US the two schools of theology used by the Jesuits are the Jesuit School of Theology in Berkeley, California, and the Boston College School of Theology. An individual Jesuit might be sent to school elsewhere, but this is where the majority of Jesuits receive their theological education.
 
why? what’s wrong with the present-day Jesuits?
Aside from men like Fr. Pacwa, most of the Jesuits have gone the way of much of the “spirit of Vatican II” crowd in making Church teaching what they want, not what the Church actually teaches. Their magazine, America, is a prime example of this. A couple of years ago there were blasphemous pictures of the Blessed Mother and a condom, just to give an idea. Although they apologized and said it was a “slip-up” in reviewing, how could any person even associated with the magazine not been offended when it was even suggested to use such a thing? We also have heard of a young man who wanted to be a Jesuit, but his experiences at the formation house were such that he left within the year and is pursing a different course to the priesthood. And seeing as someone else has replied that the two places they are formed here in the US are in Berkley, CA and Boston–well, that’s pretty clear enough what kind of theology they’ll get there!

So, we hope there will be a genuine renewal in the Jesuit order and we will once again see men like Fr. Hardon, Fr. Pacwa, St. Ignatius and others. It’s just kind of discouraging to see the great fall to the depths.

Tracy 🙂
 
Let’s pray for Fr. Mitch Pacwa to be made Superior General of the Jesuits.

If it happens, we will have iron-clad proof of a miracle to show the Atheists, and the Jesuits would be much better off…

BTW, there are good, orthodox Jesuits around, you just have to look hard because they are severely outnumbered in their society. Bishop Corrada of Tyler, Texas is a Jesuit, and one of the oustanding orthodox Bishops in the Catholic Church.
 
BTW, there are good, orthodox Jesuits around, you just have to look hard because they are severely outnumbered in their society. Bishop Corrada of Tyler, Texas is a Jesuit, and one of the oustanding orthodox Bishops in the Catholic Church.
Maybe we should compile a list of faithful Jesuits for encouragement–for them AND for us! 🙂
 
Maybe we should compile a list of faithful Jesuits for encouragement–for them AND for us! 🙂
There are close to 20,000 Jesuits worldwide. How many of them do you know well enough to judge? And why would you consider it your job to do so?
 
There are close to 20,000 Jesuits worldwide. How many of them do you know well enough to judge? And why would you consider it your job to do so?
Y’know, “judgment” seems like a word that gets thrown around an awful lot these days on anyone who would look at another and make any kind of distinction. The smiley face on my comment should also give an idea that I was smiling when I said it–an indication that I wasn’t going for the judicial robes on this issue. Obviously, I wasn’t serious. However, you do bring up an interesting point and I’ll let Scripture speak to it:

“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. YOU WILL KNOW THEM BY THEIR FRUITS.” Matthew 7:15 and repeated in v. 20–Jesus’ own words, btw.

There will always be wolves among the sheep–and it’s up to the sheep to be able to figure out who they are so they don’t lose their own faith by listening to those who are unfaithful. And how do we know who is faithful? By their obedience to the Church.

That is not judgment–it’s discernment and there is a great deal of difference.

Tracy
 
There will always be wolves among the sheep–and it’s up to the sheep to be able to figure out who they are so they don’t lose their own faith by listening to those who are unfaithful. And how do we know who is faithful? By their obedience to the Church.
Individual Jesuits answer to their superiors, their Provincials, and ultimately to their Father General. Fr. Nicolas is in Rome and is easily accessible to the Pope. I think if the Pope had concerns about the fidelity of the Jesuits he could address it easily. In fact, shortly after he became Pope there was a change in the editor of America. And notably, the Jesuits obeyed when the Pope expressed his displeasure with the direction of the magazine.

Jesuits are highly educated men and this may lead them to see more nuance in Church teaching than some people are comfortable with. That doesn’t make them unfaithful. Indeed, it makes them Catholic!
 
My son is a graduate of a Jesuit high school, where faith, excellence, community service and leadership are principles instilled in the young men who attend there. My son, who is now in his mid 20s, feels a tremendous bond with his school, the alumni and the Jesuits, who taught him. I am proud of his association with such a wonderful and faithful group. I have never met a Jesuit that fits the description I am reading about here.
 
Y’know, “judgment” seems like a word that gets thrown around an awful lot these days on anyone who would look at another and make any kind of distinction. The smiley face on my comment should also give an idea that I was smiling when I said it–an indication that I wasn’t going for the judicial robes on this issue. Obviously, I wasn’t serious. However, you do bring up an interesting point and I’ll let Scripture speak to it:

“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. YOU WILL KNOW THEM BY THEIR FRUITS.” Matthew 7:15 and repeated in v. 20–Jesus’ own words, btw.

There will always be wolves among the sheep–and it’s up to the sheep to be able to figure out who they are so they don’t lose their own faith by listening to those who are unfaithful. And how do we know who is faithful? By their obedience to the Church.

That is not judgment–it’s discernment and there is a great deal of difference.

Tracy
Hi Everybody. This is my first post here after several weeks of lurking!

Whether discernment or judgement I think you are still over generalizing.

I am a graduate student in physics studying for my Master’s/Ph.D. In my field, I am surrounded by people who are materialists and atheists. Many feel that science makes God obsolete. I however, am of a different viewpoint. I spend my time studying physics, learning about the incredible amount of order in the universe and I don’t understand how someone could study science and NOT believe in God.

Why is my viewpoint so different than many people’s in my field? I attribute it to the fact that I was educated at a Jesuit University. While many people in my field either lost they’re faith or used science as an excuse to stop practicing, I go to Mass daily. The Jesuits helped teach me that I was able to be both a physicist and a Catholic. That science did not really support atheism, (even though many use it to push an atheistic agenda).

In my time during my undergrad, I met many Jesuits, and had several as professors, both in theology/philosophy courses an in mathematical courses. Each one was a wonderful role model, both spiritually and academically. None of them fit the description and stereotypes of the Jesuits portrayed in this thread.

My university was openly and actively anti abortion and did not supply contraception through the student health center (even though several student groups/community groups and some secular faculty pushed the university to offer it.) The Jesuits I know stood strong against the clamoring for contraception on campus and they wouldn’t even consider doing otherwise. Also, though I do not go to school there, I hear similar views are upheld by the Jesuits administering Boston College, one of their larger schools in the U.S.

In every experience I had with the Jesuits, the members of the order are some of the most faithful Catholics and some of the most brilliant people I have ever met. While I know you were not judging the order, you will still overgeneralizing the actions of a few Jesuits to make an observation about the faithfulness of the whole order, the largest religious order in the Church. In my direct experience with the order, this observation is unfair to every member of order I have interacted with. Please give the Jesuits the benefit of the doubt. They are training our future religious and secular leaders and, in my opinion, doing a great job of it, overall.
 
It´s hard not to love the Jesuits. Granted, they sometimes get in trouble since they are called to be in the frontiers, where issues are not black and white. I have also met wonderful Jesuits, all of them working with the people, helping us with spiritual direction through the Excercises, deepening our relationship with Jesus and love for our Mother, and calling us to work for justice. As I said, it is hard not to love the Jesuits once you get to meet them.

Blessings,
 
Well, so far, except for the mention of a high school in Texas, no one seems willing to say, “Here they are.” My questions are: Who are they? Where are they?

If any of you read the National Catholic Register, a couple of weeks ago they did a very lengthy article about all the politicians who have graduated from Jesuit universities who are radically pro-abortion. It’s alarming, to say the least. Perhaps they are in the midst of a renewal like other religious orders and the young ones are the ones adhering to the Faith more than some of the older ones?

I realize the Jesuits are a large order, but you folks are the first ones I’ve heard speak positively about them. Since I’ve only been Catholic for seven years, obviously my experience hasn’t been very extended, but when I talk with lifelong Catholics who are faithful to the Church, love the Church and are current with the Church (meaning they’re not thinking of Jesuits of however many years ago), I’ve yet to hear anything positive. So, thank you to those who spoke positively and given me hope, but how about mentioning names and places where a young man could be directed?

Tracy
 
I was a missionary in the Amazon for many years. The Society of Jesus was also there. These Jesuits came from the Boston group. They were most deidcated, hardworking and courageous men I have ever had the honor of working with. They had a genuine concern for the poor. They ran excellent schools. They had an excellent relationship with the local bishop and with other religious in the mission. They intervened on behalf of the poor with the local governments and alwasy won. They had many people in their mission parishes and excellent catechetical training centers. They aslo ran many technical schools, wich were badly needed in that region of the world.

As I was traveling back to the USA I stopped in Jamaica and found that one of them has founded a wonderful congregation of brothers, the Missionaries of the Poor. They also helped with the foundation and guidance of the male branch of Mother Teresa’s society, the Missionaries of Charity. Their current superior general is a Jesuit and those brothers are well trained and very holy men.

The most admirable quality of the Jesuits is their ability to face the Church as it is, not as we would like it to be. They deal in reality and they go from there. Many people do not like them because the Jesuits do not cherish ideals as we imagine them to be in order to protect ourselves from the painful reality that we live in a sinful world and a Church made up of sinners. They realize that perfection is not a way of escape. The Jesuits realize that you can only become a saint by facing yourself and assuming full responsibility for your life as your are and then submitting yourself to the transforming grace of God. Therefore, the Jesuits are not in the business of rescuing people from themselves. They are in the business of teaching people how to rescue themselves. Many people want priests and religious to rescue them and protect them. That is not the role of a Jesuit. You can find that among Franciscans who were founded to be brothers, but not Jesuits. They were not founded to be anyone’s brother. Therefore, they have no obligation to protect people from the sin in the world or the Church. Their obligation is to teach the sin and the way out. The rest is up to the listener.

In addition, they ae excellent scholars, which is also in their job description. They put issues and hard questions on the table. Often, people don’t like issues and questions on the table that are no in line with the tradition and faith of the Church. But no one ever said that Catholics should not be exposed to such issues and questions. How can Catholics identify them and respond to them, if they never hear them? That’s one of the roles of any theologian. What they do in the classroom and what they do in their own spiritual life are not always the same thing.

We have to look at how live and minister. The Church has no complaints about them as a Society. Like any other large organization, there are always lose canons. Heck, my family is smaller than the Jesuits and we have at least one lose canon to every 100 relatives. I guess that among 20,000 you’re going to have several.

I will say this. The Jesuits are not for the average Catholic. After working along side them I realize that they are at their best among the very poor and among the very educated and curious. I’ve always found that interesting and have never been able to put my finger on the why of it. They certainly do not do well with the average Catholic. My guess, only my guess, is that they are very oriented toward the poor, so they do well in that envrionment. Second, they are often so erudite that they speak another language, which makes them sound off-key to the average man in the pew, unlike the Dominicans, Franciscans and Salesians who are much more the man on the street type of preachers and teachers.

We have to ask ourselves if we don’t expect something of them that they are not meant to give. During my life as a religious, I have often found that people expect things of religious that are not realistic. They don’t do it out of malice. They do it because they don’t know the differences between religious charisms and mission. That’s our fault. We religious have not taught the laity enough about who we are and how we compliment each other, rather than be all the same. I know that my own community is finally waking up to this and we’re involved in a big campaign where ever we are to teach people about Franciscan charism and the differences between the many branches of our own religious fmaily. People just don’t know and they transfer expectations from one religious group to another. I believe this is happening here in this thread with the Jesuits. The expectations that I see are often more appropriate for the mendicants, not the Jesuits. The Jesuits are clerks regular. Therefore, their approach and the areas in which they will dabble, for lack of a better word, is going to be more flexible than the mendicants who are bound by a very tight and short leash.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Well said Br. JR!

In response to the remark about pro-abortion politicians graduating from Jesuit schools:

We have to remember that Jesuit universities do not educate only Catholics. At my school, there were Protestant, Jewish, Muslin and atheist students.

While it may be true that there are pro abortion alumni from Jesuit schools, it does not mean that the Jesuits are teaching their students to be pro abortion. I can assure you, that from direct experience, I know they do not. However, all they can do is teach. They cannot force students to agree with them.
 
I can say about the Jesuits that same that St. Bernadette told the bishop about her visions. “My mission is to tell you the truth, not to convince you.”

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top