Jesus: 100% God and 100% Man

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Xiaahmad

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Salam

I would like to ask my christian friends here to explain 100% God and 100% Man jesus belief as it is one of Major belief as far as I think.

coz what I see it is self contradictory:

100% Man contradicts with 100% God
and 100% God contradicts with 100% man.

How jesus was both? coz as far as i think christian believe he was both all the time not that sometimes just man and some times just God.

Hope to get sensible precise and clear answer

Regards,
Xiaahmad
 
Sala’am to you.

It is called the Hypostatic Union and it is a mystery, just as it is a mystery that God is Three Divine Persons yet One–and ONLY One–God.

It is a mystery as well no matter how you look at it that creatures like ourselves had a rational soul breathed into us. Where is that soul? We can’t ‘see’ it. We can’t have ‘evidence’ it exists. . .but we believe. We believe we were either created whole and entire (from the ‘dust of the earth’ --Adam, and from his rib --Eve) or that in the course of natural life doing what we call ‘evolution’ that God took two creatures and gave them souls and that humanity descends from this couple (call them Adam and Eve as well).

Heck, we don’t even know how our own brains work, fully.

We know (because God told us so) that Jesus is both fully God–100%–and fully man --100%, both at the same time.

If we can trust God with all the other mysteries (do we even know all about our own galaxy, let alone the universe? Do we know all about our own planet, its seas, etc? We don’t, do we?), I think we can trust Him with this one as well.

He said this, and I believe it.
Faith is the assurance of things hoped for, remember. Faith is not predicated on something that I can 'know for sure 100%.
If I can fully understand something, I don’t have faith in it.

None of us fully knows God, therefore all of us can have faith in Him.
 
So to put it short:
like TRINITY this is another unexplainable mystery?
 
Jesus Christ is the Son of God Incarnate. He is the divine and human natures united in the Second Person of the Holy Trinity, that is, the Son of God. Because He is God, He is true God, and because He has a body, blood, and soul, He is true Man, like us in every way except sin. Jesus is not a human person but a Divine Person (The Son of God Incarnate). Hope that helps 🙂
 
But the thing I was talking about Contradiction in 100% God and 100% man.

100% GOD is Immortal 100% Man is Mortal
100% GOD is all knowing 100% Man is not
100% GOD is not dependent 100% Man is

etc.

so if he is one that contradicts with other coz same Jesus (PUBH) suppose to have both of these?
 
The Trinity appears contradictory.

After all: There is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit–but they are all ONE? Yes, it is true.

If you can believe this, then the Son being both fully God and fully human should not be troubling. If God can be “three in one”, why can’t He be both God and Man?

If you’re a man, you can be both husband and father, right? Fully husband, fully father. Not ‘husband’ for 2 hours, ‘father’ for 4, etc. Fully husband and fully father at all times.
 
but being Hasband and Father is not in contradiction.

like 100% God and 100% man is as the examples I gave above.

it more like a man taller than 6 Feet but at same time shorter than 5.
 
The Holy Trinity can be described in terms not unlike an egg. An egg has three parts: shell, white, and yolk. Individually they are distinct parts of the egg, but still egg. Together they are not three eggs but on egg. All part of the same whole, yet they still retiain their qualities that make them an egg when seperate. Likewise God the Father, God the Father, God the Holy Spirit. All distinct, sepeate “parts” of a single whole, but together a single being.

As to the 100% God, 100% man question. Jesus Christ was concieved of the Holy Spirit. He came down from heaven and became flesh. He was 100% God. At the same time he WAS flesh. He experienced hunger, pain, temptation, sorrow, fear, anger, joy, etc. He was fully man.
 
Here is a good explanation:

"The hypostatic union is the term used to describe how God the Son, Jesus Christ, took on a human nature, yet remained fully God at the same time. Jesus always had been God (John 8:58; 10:30), but at the incarnation Jesus took on human flesh - He became a human being (John 1:14). The addition of the human nature to the divine nature is Jesus, the God-man. This is the hypostatic union, Jesus Christ, one Person, fully God and fully man.

Jesus’ two natures, human and divine, are inseparable. Jesus will forever be the God-man, fully God and fully human, two distinct natures in one Person. Jesus’ humanity and divinity are not mixed, but are united without loss of separate identity. Jesus sometimes operated with the limitations of humanity (John 4:6; 19:28) and other times in the power of His deity (John 11:43; Matthew 14:18-21). In both, Jesus’ actions were from His one Person. Jesus had two natures, but only one person or personality.

The doctrine of the hypostatic union is an attempt to explain how Jesus could be both God and man at the same time. It is ultimately, though, a doctrine that we are incapable of fully understanding. It is impossible for us to fully understand how God works. We, as finite human beings, should not expect to be able to comprehend an infinite God. Jesus is God’s Son in that He was conceived by the Holy Spirit (Luke 1:35). But that does not mean Jesus did not exist before He was conceived. Jesus always has existed (John 8:58; 10:30). When Jesus was conceived, He became a human being in addition to being God (John 1:1,14).

Jesus is both God and man. Jesus has always been God, but He did not become a human being until He was conceived in Mary. Jesus became a human being so that He could identify with us in our struggles (Hebrews 2:17) and, more importantly, so that He could die on the cross to pay the penalty for our sins (Philippians 2:5-11). In summary, the hypostatic union teaches that Jesus is both fully human and fully divine, that there is no mixture or dilution of either nature, and that He is one united Person, forever."

gotquestions.org/hypostatic-union.html
 
The reason why the Hypostatic union and the Trinity are important is because they are necessary for God to connect fully with Man here on earth, where we are now. God becoming Man was the only way for God to show Himself fully to us and for God to to save us.

God sent prophets to the world to connect with Man, since sin has made us blind to God. God gave the Law. All throughout the ages, in all places in the world, God sent his Light.

But in all cases, that understanding and that Light was incomplete, since it had to be filtered through the imperfect witnesses of imperfect men.

When God became Man, then we could finally see God on earth fully, and through that knowledge be reconciled to Him.

When God became Man, that Light was so strong that it caused those who are dark in their hearts to lash out in hatred at God. His goodness was intolerable, and so they killed Him. His very goodness, humility, and innocence is what enraged those who could not understand Him.

When the darkness consumed the physical body of God, then God was sacrificed to the evil of men.

When the physical body of God was taken up again in the resurrection, then death and evil were forever defeated.

That is the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
 
St. Paul tells us that the human race takes its origin from two men: Adam and Christ… The first man, Adam, he says, became a living soul, the last Adam a life-giving spirit. the first Adam was made by the Last Adam, from whom he also received his sould to give him life… the second Adam stampted his image on the first Adam when he created him. that is why he took on himself the role and the name of the first Adam, in order that he might not lose what he had made in his own image. the first Adam, the last Adam: the firs had a beginning, the last knows no end. The last Adam is indeed the first; as he himself says: I am the first and the Last" - CCC p.92
Islam (I’m not sure of this) does not believe man was created perfectly but the dignity of man lays in the fact that he is created in God’s image.
the human body shares in the dignity of “the imgage of God”: it is a human body precisely because it is animated by a spiritual soul, and it is the whole human person that is intedned to become in the body of Christ, a temple of the Spirit… for this reason man may not despise his bodily life. Rather he is obliged to regard his body as good and to hold it in honor since God has created it and will raise it up on the last day CCC p.93
So Chistians view the human though fallen as initially good which Jesus is.
The unique and altogether singular event of the incarnation of the Son of God does not mean that jesus Christ is part God and part man, nor does it imply that he is the reslt of a confused mixture of the divine and the human. he became truly man while remaining truly god. Jesus Christ is true God and True man… We confess that one and the same Christ, Lord, and only -begotten Son,i sto be acknowledged in two natures without confussion, change, division, or separation. The distinction between the natures was never abolished by their union, but rahter the character proper to each of the two natures was preserved as they came together in one person - CCC
So then it follows that:
The Son of God…worked with human hands; he thought with a human mind. He acted with a human will, and with a human heart he loved Born of the Virgin mary, he has truly been made one of us like to us in all things except sin - CCC
Even so this does not reduce his person of the trinity rather it elevates human dignity.
 
Salam

I would like to ask my christian friends here to explain 100% God and 100% Man jesus belief as it is one of Major belief as far as I think.

coz what I see it is self contradictory:

100% Man contradicts with 100% God
and 100% God contradicts with 100% man.

How jesus was both? coz as far as i think christian believe he was both all the time not that sometimes just man and some times just God.

Hope to get sensible precise and clear answer

Regards,
Xiaahmad

The way the question is put, is what causes a contradiction 🙂

Percentages are appropriate for material realities - the doctrine of the Two Natures is not dealing with material realities, but with spiritual ones

Percentages are fine for things like
  • economics - deflation & inflation of proices or wages, etc., can be measured & compared
  • social statistics - immigration or emigration
    but not for metaphysical, moral, or supernatural entities - one can’t say that a statement is (say) 85 % certain, even though one would be able to say it is accepted or denied or debated by 85 % of a social group.
Metaphysical, moral, or spiritual entities, because they are not material, do not occupy space. The Two Natures do not occupy space, any more than God does. Any more than a thought does. So one can be “in debt” & “in love” - as well as being “in bed” “in Morocco”. To be in bed in Morocco, it’s no good going to Yemen: they are hundreds of miles apart: they are separated in space, & to be in either, is to be absent from the other. But to be “in debt” & “in love” are not spatial - it’s easy to be in both simultaneously. And to be “in bed” “in Morocco” or “in Yemen” too.

Jesus Christ is Wholly God - He is Wholly man as well. There is nothing in common between God & man - man cannot have any dealings with God by his own strength, for “God Alone is Great”. A Christian can say this with even better reason than a Muslim, since it is Christian belief that God showed His Infinite Greatness by becoming that which He is not: by becoming truly a man like us in all things, sin only excepted.

In no sense whatever does this change God - an incomplete comparison (but all are incomplete) is to think of God as a story-teller Who writes Himself into His story. In fact, the story exists for Jesus Christ, its Hero: there is nothing that has being that does not… So the appearance of the Hero, though not actual from word 1 of page 1, was certain to occur even before the story began.

Or, the Word of God is both
  • eternally present with the Father
  • in time, present among men as the Word of God made man for our salvation.
    The Word is spoken once by the Father - in that one Word, all creaturely existence is contained. And this Word is not a thing audible to the ears, but a Divine Person, spaceless, timeless, dimensionless, not contained by creation, but containing all creation. Because He contains it and altogether transcends it, He can enter it. And that is what He has done 🙂
So none of the mysteries of the life of Christ, from Virginal Conception to Glorious Ascension, change the changeless nature which is His with the Father & the Holy Spirit. Instead, they indwell one another, as spaceless as a thought in the intellect of man. Our thoughts, are not persons (though we are) - They are Persons, & Divine Persons.

If God could be changed by His acts, He would be changed by giving messages to Prophets & Saints: for there is no fundamental difference in principle between acting to take our nature, & acting to instruct men with words. So if He is not changed by speaking to His servants - He is not changed by coming among them as one of their race, the race of men. A doctrine that has God deal with men at all, has the same issue of God’s changelessness to account for as the specifically Christian doctrine of the Incarnation.
 
There are lots of things about BOTH our faiths that are incomprehensible mysteries.

How can God be without beginning or end? Logic tells us ALL beings have a beginning and an end.

How can God create the universe out of nothing? Logic tells us everything is created out of something else.

How can humans spend eternity in Paradise? Logic tells us that they die and are buried and rot away to nothing.

How could Enoch and Elijah be assumed by God into heaven without dying? The Torah tells us that they were. Yet logic again tells us all humans die.

How did the prophets of God perform ALL their miracles, which are contrary to the laws of nature and human logic?

How could Jesus (Isa) be born of the virgin Mary (Maryam)? Logic tells us all women lose their virginity before they bear children!

How could Muhammad travel in one night from wherever he was to Jerusalem? Logic tells us a human being simply couldn’t do it.

How could Muhammad converse with a heavenly being - the angel Gabriel - when he was entirely a mortal man? How can a heavenly angel speak the tongues of men, and how can a man understand the speech of angels?
 
Salam

I would like to ask my christian friends here to explain 100% God and 100% Man jesus belief as it is one of Major belief as far as I think.

coz what I see it is self contradictory:

100% Man contradicts with 100% God
and 100% God contradicts with 100% man.

How jesus was both? coz as far as i think christian believe he was both all the time not that sometimes just man and some times just God.

Hope to get sensible precise and clear answer

Regards,
Xiaahmad
The question should start from the fact that God became man in Jesus Christ, not the other way around.
God being all-powerful has the capability to become man without diminishing His Nature. For God, nothing is impossible. When that happens, the question of percentage between being God and being man has no practical meaning.
 
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Salaam/peace
Salam
…Regards,
Xiaahmad
Welcome to the forum 🙂

Normally Muslims participants can’t stay here longer --Hope you will be able to stay 🙂
 
**CWBetts

Egg white shell are not fully Egg them self (like in trinity)

Some one posted that it should not be % ok fine (although that I use to hear most of the time )

make if fully God , Fully man.

so thing is it is clear that Fully God is contradictory with Fully Man

and Fully man is contradictory with Fully GOD.

I am not talking about something that cantbe understand but about a clear contradiction in Major belief.**

Chancellare:

I gave the examples as well:

Fully GOD is Immortal Fully Man is Mortal
Fully GOD is all knowing FUlly Man is not
Fully GOD is not dependent Fully Man is
etc.

So it is SELF CONTRADICTORY so think about it frnd.

Peace

www.youtube.com/ozzycda
 
Salam

I would like to ask my christian friends here to explain 100% God and 100% Man jesus belief as it is one of Major belief as far as I think.

coz what I see it is self contradictory:

100% Man contradicts with 100% God
and 100% God contradicts with 100% man.

How jesus was both? coz as far as i think christian believe he was both all the time not that sometimes just man and some times just God.

Hope to get sensible precise and clear answer

Regards,
Xiaahmad
Hi

A good question indeed.

Thanks
 
Hypostatic
Hi

To make the discussion useful I would like to expalin the word Hypostatic from Wiktionary and Wikipedia.

hypostatic

Definition from Wiktionary, a free dictionary

[edit] English
[edit] Etymology
From mediaeval Latin hypostaticus, from Ancient Greek ὑποστατικός, from ὑποστατός.
[edit] Pronunciation
• IPA: /haɪpəˈstætɪk/
[edit] Adjective
hypostatic (comparative more hypostatic, superlative most hypostatic)
Positive
hypostatic Comparative
more hypostatic Superlative
most hypostatic
  1. (theology) Pertaining to hypostasis, especially with reference to hypostatic union.
  2. (medicine) Pertaining to hypostasis.
  3. (genetics) Of a gene, affected by hypostasis.
hypostasis

Etymology
From ecclesiastical Latin hypostasis, from Ancient Greek ὑπόστασις ‘sediment, foundation’ and later ‘substance, existence, essence’, from ὑπό + στάσις ‘standing’.
[edit] Pronunciation
• IPA: /haɪˈpɒstəsɪs/
[edit] Noun
Singular
hypostasis Plural
hypostases

hypostasis (plural hypostases)
  1. (philosophy) Inherent reality or substance.
  2. (theology) A person, specifically the person of Christ or of another part of the Trinity.
    o 1985: What did the God who hammered the universe together have to do with virtue, redemption, the strange doctrine of hypostasis? — Anthony Burgess, Kingdom of the Wicked
    o 2000: As Gregory of Nyssa had explained, the three hypostases of Father, Son, and Spirit were not objective facts but simply “terms that we use” to express the way in which the “unnameable and unspeakable” divine nature (ousia) adapts itself to the limitations of our human minds. — Karen Armstrong, The Battle for God (Harper 2004, p. 69)
  3. (medicine, obsolete) a sedimentary deposit, especially in urine
  4. (genetics) the effect of one gene preventing another from expressing
    [edit] Translations
    [show ▼]inherent reality or substance
    • Romanian: esenţă f
[show ▼]sedimentary deposit
• Romanian: hipostază f

The translations below need to be checked and inserted above into the appropriate translation tables, removing any numbers. Numbers do not necessarily match those in definitions. See instructions at Help:How to check translations.
• French: hypostase f
• Greek: ύποστασις f
Retrieved from “http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hypostasis

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Hypostasis

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
See:
• Hypostatic abstraction
• Hypostasis (linguistics)
• Hypostasis (organization)
• Hypostasis (philosophy)
• Hypostasis (medicine)

This disambiguation page lists articles associated with the same title. If an internal link led you here, you may wish to change the link to point directly to the intended article.

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypostatic_abstraction

Hypostatic abstraction

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Hypostatic abstraction, also known as hypostasis or subjectal abstraction, is a formal operation that takes an element of information, such as might be expressed in a proposition of the form X is Y, and conceives its information to consist in the relation between a subject and another subject, such as expressed in a proposition of the form X has Y-ness. The existence of the latter subject, here Y-ness, consists solely in the truth of those propositions that have the corresponding concrete term, here Y, as the predicate. The object of discussion or thought thus introduced may also be called a hypostatic object.
The above definition is adapted from the one given by Charles Peirce (CP 4.235, “The Simplest Mathematics” (1902), in Collected Papers, CP 4.227–323).

The way that Charles Peirce describes it, the main thing about the formal operation of hypostatic abstraction, insofar as it can be observed to operate on formal linguistic expressions, is that it converts an adjective or some part of a predicate into an extra subject, upping the arity, also called the adicity, of the main predicate in the process.
For example, a typical case of hypostatic abstraction occurs in the transformation from “honey is sweet” to “honey possesses sweetness”, which transformation can be viewed in the following variety of ways:

The grammatical trace of this hypostatic transformation tells of a process that abstracts the adjective “sweet” from the main predicate “is sweet”, thus arriving at a new, increased-arity predicate “possesses”, and as a by-product of the reaction, as it were, precipitating out the substantive “sweetness” as a new second subject of the new predicate, “possesses”.
[edit] References
• Peirce, C.S., Collected Papers of Charles Sanders Peirce, vols. 1–6, Charles Hartshorne and Paul Weiss (eds.), vols. 7–8, Arthur W. Burks (ed.), Harvard University Press, Cambridge, MA, 1931–1935, 1958.
[edit] See also
• Abstraction
• Abstraction in computing
• Abstraction in mathematics
• Analogy
• Category theory
• Continuous predicate
• Prescisive abstraction
• Reification
• E-prime

[edit] External links
• J. Jay Zeman, Peirce on Abstraction
Retrieved from “http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypostatic_abstraction
Categories: Abstraction | Logic | Mathematical logic
Unquote

Thanks
 
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