Jesus a disciple of John the Baptist?

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In my New Testament Literature course my professor said that it is evident (when using the criterion of dissimilarity) that Jesus was a disciple of John the Baptist and that anything put into the Gospels about John the Baptist declaring himself lesser than Jesus was Christian glossing. How can I refute this point?
 
RCWarrior821 said:
In my New Testament Literature course my professor said that it is evident (when using the criterion of dissimilarity) that Jesus was a disciple of John the Baptist and that anything put into the Gospels about John the Baptist declaring himself lesser than Jesus was Christian glossing. How can I refute this point?
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Hogwash!!!

It is evident from the Gospels that John had never met Jesus prior to their Baptism.

Does your professor have any proof of this (not that college professors have ever used that technique) claim?
 
Well he uses something called the criterion of dissimilarity which is similar to the criterion of embarrassment.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criterion_of_embarrassment

except that the criterion of dissimilarity goes on to state that anything in the Gospels that doesn’t go well with what early Christians (or the Jesus movement as my professor says) would have wanted to convey would have been historically probable.

And one conclusion using these criteria is that Jesus was a disciple of John the Baptist.

That’s the “evidence” he gives and I wish i knew how to refute his claims.
 
I just read a book by Bruce Chilton, and he says that Jesus indeed was taught by John the Baptist, but he developed a different emphasis on purity. John was for baptism by immersion, but Jesus shared food and healed people. Chilton basically reads between the lines of the Gospels, and puts together the lost years in Jesus’ life. He’s very well educated in Christianity, Aramaic and ancient writings. It’s a fascinating book.
 
Does anyone have anything about this? anything about what the Church would say in response?
 
What I have is the CCC and the Bible.

Both declare Jesus fully God and fully man. He is the disciple of no one. We are to be disciples of His. John the the Baptist asked his disciples to become disciples of Jesus.
 
RCWarrior821 said:
Does anyone have anything about this? anything about what the Church would say in response?
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By the way, the book is called “Rabbi Jesus”. It definitely has some interesting ideas, doubtfully the official dogma of the Catholic Church. However, here is another site I found, explaining that Jesus could have been a disciple of John the Baptist before he started his own ministry.

biblicalstudies.org.uk/pdf/eq/disciple_badke.pdf

One thing you should realize is that the Gospels are not history books. They are more allegorical. Time is compressed. However the truth in them is real.
 
The method he is using makes a rough guess based on certain assumptions about how people normally behave.

You could argue that the Christian principle of honesty would make it less likely that the early Christians would have distorted the facts in the way that average people would.

But there might be a grain of truth to what he is saying. Perhaps Jesus did follow John the baptist before Jesus began his own ministry. But it’s not that hard to believe that John voluntarily handed the authority over to his follower, Jesus. None of that has to contradict catholic theology or the biblical account.
 
I would say that Jesus was not a disciple of John the Baptist, but that they were both influenced by the Essene community. That is the Essene community had some truths about baptism that Jesus and John the Baptist both applied in their teachings.
 
RCWarrior821 said:
In my New Testament Literature course my professor said that it is evident (when using the criterion of dissimilarity) that Jesus was a disciple of John the Baptist and that anything put into the Gospels about John the Baptist declaring himself lesser than Jesus was Christian glossing. How can I refute this point?
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Your professor is just stating what some have said before-and
he is missing the big picture-what baptism does for us-

Jesus became sin, He took on our sins-then He Has John the Baptist baptize Him to fulfill His will-His Word.

He did this because Jesus taught us by doing Himself what was required of us-and to show that He always keeps His Word.

When one is Baptized one enters into the death of Jesus, therefore one enters also into His Resurrection and becomes:
-Holy and Justified
-United in one Spirit as one Body
-Clothed with Jesus Christ
-Raised unto the image and likeness of God

Nothing embarrassing in that-IMO

John prepared the path for Jesus he was a Priest (rem his father-Jews inherited the priesthood)

Jesus gave John a very unique honor by saying that he was the greatest man born to a woman.( He filled St John with His Spirit when Mary went to visit Elizabeth)

I would not argue with your teacher-if asked I would just state the truth-John heralded the coming of Christ and urged his people to repent and be baptized with water-fully acknowledging “another who is to come and will baptize with Spirit and with fire”

God revealed to St John that Jesus is the Lamb of God.

Jesus was never a disciple of St. John.

Thank-you for the question-just right for a Friday devotional contemplation.
 
John 5:33-36
  1. You sent to John, and he gave testimony to the truth. 34. But I receive not testimony from man: but I say these things, that you may be saved. 35. He was a burning and a shining light: and you were willing for a time to rejoice in his light. 36. But I have a greater testimony than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to perfect; the works themselves, which I do, give testimony of me, that the Father hath sent me.👍
 
CHRISTINE77 said:
I just read a book by Bruce Chilton, and he says that Jesus indeed was taught by John the Baptist, but he developed a different emphasis on purity. John was for baptism by immersion, but Jesus shared food and healed people. Chilton basically reads between the lines of the Gospels, and puts together the lost years in Jesus’ life. He’s very well educated in Christianity, Aramaic and ancient writings. It’s a fascinating book.
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Really?? How does Bruce Chilton know this?
Why are people so naive and gullible to think this sort of rubbish can be true!!!
 
thistle said:
Really?? How does Bruce Chilton know this?
Why are people so naive and gullible to think this sort of rubbish can be true!!!
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He’s not that controversial. He simply is stating that something must have been happening during Jesus’ life before he was 30. In his twenties, he must have had other experiences that led up to the account in the Gospels. The Gospels are a compressed account of Jesus’ life. What happened between Jesus at 12 years old and Jesus at 30? It’s a valid question.
 
CHRISTINE77 said:
He’s not that controversial. He simply is stating that something must have been happening during Jesus’ life before he was 30. In his twenties, he must have had other experiences that led up to the account in the Gospels. The Gospels are a compressed account of Jesus’ life. What happened between Jesus at 12 years old and Jesus at 30? It’s a valid question.
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you make a valid point but it does not answer the core of the problem with :
that anything put into the Gospels about John the Baptist declaring himself lesser than Jesus was Christian glossing.
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This is the point of concern. To wit - the Gospel record cannot be trusted because the writers had agenda’s to serve rather than tell the truth.
 
quasimodo said:
you make a valid point but it does not answer the core of the problem with :

This is the point of concern. To wit - the Gospel record cannot be trusted because the writers had agenda’s to serve rather than tell the truth.
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Jesus was greater than John the Baptist. He was also younger. John said that he was greater. Jesus was with John the Baptist before he started his own ministry. Therefore, he may have been influenced by John’s teachings, before he went out and spread his word.
 
CHRISTINE77 said:
Jesus was greater than John the Baptist. He was also younger. John said that he was greater. Jesus was with John the Baptist before he started his own ministry. Therefore, he may have been influenced by John’s teachings, before he went out and spread his word.
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That is obvious. I already said, “you make a valid point” when you stated as much in your previous post.

But you did not address the subject of my post nor respond to the objection to his work that I raised. You seem to want to avoid the crux of the problem.

here is the objectionable part of the theory:
… that anything put into the Gospels about John the Baptist declaring himself lesser than Jesus was Christian glossing.
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Translation: Can’t trust the gospels to tell the truth.
 
NotWorthy said:
Hogwash!!!

It is evident from the Gospels that John had never met Jesus prior to their Baptism.

Does your professor have any proof of this (not that college professors have ever used that technique) claim?
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After reading all the posts on this thread, I still reply to the original post: Hogwash!!!

John (the Baptist) says twice in John (the Apostle’s) Gospel: “I did not know him”

The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world. He is the one of whom I said, ‘A man is coming after me who ranks ahead of me because he existed before me.’ I did not know him, but the reason why I came baptizing with water was that he might be made known to Israel." John testified further, saying, "I saw the Spirit come down like a dove from the sky and remain upon him. I did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘On whomever you see the Spirit come down and remain, he is the one who will baptize with the holy Spirit.’
 
quasimodo said:
Translation: Can’t trust the gospels to tell the truth.
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Methinks that you have cut to the heart of the matter. If the good professor can get his students to believe his hypothesis, getting them to doubt the rest of the New Testament is a piece of cake.
 
quasimodo said:
That is obvious. I already said, “you make a valid point” when you stated as much in your previous post.

But you did not address the subject of my post nor respond to the objection to his work that I raised. You seem to want to avoid the crux of the problem.

here is the objectionable part of the theory:

Translation: Can’t trust the gospels to tell the truth.
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Nevertheless, what DO you think Jesus was doing with his life before age 30? Living in a vacuum?
 
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