Jesus Affirmed a Gay Couple Math 8:5-14

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This week while driving home I saw a huge highway billboard sign that said exactly the “Title”. It had a picture of Jesus on it. About a mile down the road a sign was “Would Jesus Discriminate”. I see a massive push now in our area to acclimate our culture to the gay and lesbian life style on grounds of it being unchristian not to accept same sex couples. This is in the DFW area. I hear the signs are all over the place. I just dropped my oldest at his Catholic School and was bringing another to the lower level school.

I see the Church going underground. Comments? My children’s godmother said “you know its going to happen don’t you?” I cringed and sucked it in. She was the only available person at the time to be a godparent and the only one willing. However, I know that our children know better. So we love her but I avoid getting into real Catholic teaching. Shocking.
 
As a gay man, I read that passage and I do not see anything about Jesus affirming a gay couple.
 
I agree. As Catholics we refer to what you refer to as “gay” as someone with “same sex attraction”. The difference is minuscule to me but it does make a difference. My point is that, assuming you understand my point, then you understand that this is misleading. most people won’t even bother to look this up. Before I referenced it I already knew which scripture was being used. That probably boils my blood more than trying to get people to accept openly same sex unions in some form of matrimonial style belief. I’ve had many friends in my life that have attractions towards their same sex. Some to both. Well physically speaking I understand. But morally speaking to act upon it is another. Society impacts our morals, faith, beliefs. But that does not change God’s law. We may drift further from truth, but God remains the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.
 
“Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God.”

I CORINTHIANS 6:9-11

Sodom and Gomorrah… same God… Jesus Christ. .

Picture Jesus Christ as He is in Revelation, speaking to the Churches and then sitting in judgement. .

God’s love is not for sin, and when we sin in our will, we commit abominable and deadly sins we are rejected by God’s justice until we repent. Not until we are sorrowful, but until we repent and do penance and sin no more.

So… those who are caught in the slavery of such abomination should be told to repent, and that they should hate such attractions and overcome them, not consider them something good or socially acceptable. When sin is socially acceptable it is embraced, when it is not, people gain the will to overcome it. One of the great errors of our time is to tolerate public deadly sins, especially of this gravity.

And now the Christians are yes, near to going into hiding as under the pagan Romans with their vices, with leaders who serve the world often more than Christ.

We must be brave in the face of these horrors, Kyrie eleision. 🙂

“See that you determine to extirpate that obscene crime committed by men who lie with males, whose fearful conduct defiles the decency of honest living and provokes from Heaven the wrath of the Supreme Judge. . .”

St. Basil the Great, Father, Bishop and Doctor of the Church

“All passions are dishonorable, for the soul is even more damaged and degraded by sin than the body is by disease. But the worst of all passions is lust between men…The sins against nature are more problematic and less satisfying, so much so that one cannot even say that they procure pleasure, since true pleasure is only that which is according to nature. But when God abandons a man, everything is turned on its head! Therefore, not only are such passions (of homosexuals) satanic, but their lives are diabolic…So I say to you that they (the homosexuals) are even worse than murderers, and that it would be better to die than to live in such dishonor. A murderer only separates the soul from the body, whereas these (homosexuals) destroy the soul inside the body…There is nothing, absolutely nothing more absurd or damaging than this perversity. . .”

St. John Chrysostom, Father, Bishop and Doctor of the Church

“One who lived practicing the vice of sodomy will suffer more pain in Hell than anyone else, because this is the worst sin that there is. . .”

St. Bernardine of Siena, Bishop, Franciscan Missionary

Whenever you hear sodomy mentioned, each and every one of you spit on the ground and clean your mouth out as well. If they don’t want to change their ways by any other means, maybe they will change when they’re made fools of. Spit hard! Maybe the water of your spit will extinguish their fire.

St. Bernardine of Siena, Bishop, Franciscan Missionary
 
I appreciate your point, friend, but please take a more charitable approach in your tone. There are people on here that need to see Christ’s love in us, not the harsh words of a church father that spoke within the harsh words of the culture of the day about those truly sinful ways. I do not approve of sexual immorality including with opposite sex attraction. I do believe that sex sex acts are deeply more objective than opposite sex acts. But they both will get you in hot water, or should I say fire.

The best man at my wedding many years ago, married at the time, left his wife and began living an openly gay life style after my wedding. It took me years to locate him. His father was mortified by it and I could tell that he was deeply wounded by my friend’s choice. I always thought it was strange the way he looked at me and how he catered to me. I suspected, but never passed judgment because that is what I was taught. However, I was always clear that I believed that life was deeply sinful and rooting in evil. I guess he thought that if he hung around me long enough I might change my ways. Nope, I joined the military, met my bride and married her.

That’s the problem when people get confused between liking someone like a close friend and allowing the physical attraction motivate them. Marriage is much more than sexual attraction. I can really relate to this now that we are approaching retirement years. However, my bride will always be beautiful to me. God created sex for us to for a reason, not just for pleasure. One of the evidences, rejected none the less by many affected by same sex attraction, is that the sex act is not open to life simply because it is impossible for a man to have a baby with a man and a woman to have a baby with a woman. There will be those that try to show artificial means to achieve what they call the same effect. But it is not the same.

This thread is not to bash those with same sex attraction. I understand that there are people with same sex attraction that do try to live chaste and avoid trying to justify the sinful nature of the sex acts. But they are children of God. And we must treat them with the dignity of a human person. I’m talking more about the sign, the false message and the misrepresentation of the scriptures.
 
I agree that love needs to be shown, but I disagree that there should be a social acceptance of the behavior. 🙂

Everyone should hate sin, as well as love the sinner, and right now hatred of sin is very weak to nonexistant.

Coddling doesn’t make men.

Also, I think you will note that signs like that are possible because of just that. Part of the problem with that particular sin, is that it makes people able to do shameless things like that sign quite easily, because it removes the barrier of shame itself and is combined with generally a certain showiness or tendency towards love of outrageous things.

Regular fornication, while not as sinful, is a deadly sin as well and should be just as condemned I’ll add, for a certain leveling’s sake. 🙂

But then I also approve of the way people acted a little while ago, where people could be tossed into the pokey for a short time for ‘making eyes’ at women the wrong way. Lewd behavior I think that might be called.
 
Matthew 8
5 When he entered Capernaum, a centurion approached him and appealed to him,
6 saying, “Lord, my servant is lying at home paralyzed, suffering dreadfully.”
7 He said to him, “I will come and cure him.”
8 The centurion said in reply, “Lord, I am not worthy to have you enter under my roof; only say the word and my servant will be healed.
9 For I too am a person subject to authority, with soldiers subject to me. And I say to one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and to another, ‘Come here,’ and he comes; and to my slave, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.”
10 When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those following him, “Amen, I say to you, in no one in Israel have I found such faith.
11 I say to you, many will come from the east and the west, and will recline with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob at the banquet in the kingdom of heaven,
12 but the children of the kingdom will be driven out into the outer darkness, where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth.”
13 And Jesus said to the centurion, “You may go; as you have believed, let it be done for you.” And at that very hour (his) servant was healed.
14 Jesus entered the house of Peter, and saw his mother-in-law lying in bed with a fever.
 
The Greek word PAIS, used in the Bible in this story, has several meanings.
  1. Boy (related to PAIDOS)
  2. A young servant.
  3. Young male concubine.
 
So let me get this straight (forgive the pun); because this word can mean a young boy in a homosexual relationship, Mat 8 is now required to be read that way?

One of the first principles of biblical interpretation is to not isolate passages and interpret them in a way that puts them in opposition to the rest of Scripture. In the Catholic Church, they must also conform to Teaching and Tradition.

So the challenge is not simply to find one possible interpretation of a Greek word, but to demonstrate that interpretation meshes with the rest of Scripture (and Teaching and Tradition).

Does it?
 
The sign is obviously inaccurate. It is obviously part of a marketing strategy. Laws, by their very nature, are discriminatory. The word being used, “discriminate,” makes a generic argument for a specific issue.

I heard two priests on Catholic radio talking about confession. In the example, a young man confesses that he is living in sin with his girlfriend. The priest tells him he can’t absolve him until he changes the way he’s living. Not breaking up with his girlfriend, just stop living together like that.

Sin affects all of us. I pray that Catholics stand firm on Church teaching regarding this issue.

Peace,
Ed
 
Catholic teaching says love the sinner but hate the sin. That is what has been said so far. If you read in between the lines looking for a ghost, you’re looking in the wrong place. This man is far from the kind that coddles sin or sinners. I find the life a very disordered way of life. There is no need to “jump” on anybody. I firmly believe that those people with same sex attraction know that it is wrong and when they act upon it know they are committing grave sin.

The message on the sign clearly has an agenda to recruit support for legal issues coming down the road.

Gotta go to sleep.
 
edwest2 said:
I pray that Catholics stand firm on Church teaching regarding this issue.
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The Church doesn’t need encouragement because it CAN’T change its teaching on this issue! (It is regarding faith and morals, and it has been the constant teaching from the beginning.) 😉
 
surritter said:
The Church doesn’t need encouragement because it CAN’T change its teaching on this issue! (It is regarding faith and morals, and it has been the constant teaching from the beginning.) 😉
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The Bible tells us to encourage one another.

Peace,
Ed
 
Yes, and re-reading EdWest’s posting, I notice that he didn’t pray that the Church would stand firm in its teaching, but rather that Catholics would stand firm. Mea culpa – that’s a big difference!
 
If what “Cluny” says is correct – that the Greek word for “servant” used here refers to a young male servant, and was sometimes used to refer to a young male lover – then the argument that this passage affirms gay marriage is similar to the oft-repeated argument that Scriptural references to Christ’s “brothers” prove that Mary and Joseph had other children.
 
surritter said:
Yes, and re-reading EdWest’s posting, I notice that he didn’t pray that the Church would stand firm in its teaching, but rather that Catholics would stand firm. Mea culpa – that’s a big difference!
Click to expand...
Like all advertising campaigns, these billboards are not aimed at the Church at Rome but rank and file Catholics, some of whom don’t read the Bible. It is designed to confuse. I went to the web site of the people responsible for this billboard. They claim the Greek word used in the passage could mean A, B or C. C being a male concubine.

Let’s look at what actually happened. Jesus received a request for healing. The person was healed. Jesus did not “affirm” a gay couple, He healed someone.

Like the woman who was caught in the act of adultery and about to be stoned to death, which was legal to do, what did Jesus say? Anybody? He did not condemn her but told her “go and sin no more.”

What we have here is a small group of people who believe that money for billboards will confuse the issue for the average Catholic driving by that some of us might believe them, even though what is stated to be true is not true.

Catholics have not used discernment in the past when we were lied to, many, many times. That’s one reason abortion is legal today. People who wanted women to kill babies in the womb used verbal sleight of hand. I heard it myself. “Please! Please! Have compassion on these poor young women who will likely die at the hands of some back alley abortionist. Please!”

Peace,
Ed
 
Homosexuality is a no brainier no no, you dont even need a bible for it, plain logic where did you come from? how does the world get populated? The best thing about this sin is you cant pass it on to your children.

I think focus on the word “Cluny” to have a meaning of support for same sex couples is no more than convenience for an agenda.

At a very personal level I hate (like least) men sleeping with men.

Having said that i will pray next to them any time you are welcome to worship and pray with me.

We are sinners i may not have anything to do with gays but have my own sins that pop up in life without intention.

But use the word to justify such, and you are an idolater that is you create a god of your own.
.

This is much harder to get away from because you do not have a relationship with YHWH, if you are talking to your own god how will you get YHWH mercy?
 
Let’s look at what actually happened. Jesus received a request for healing. The person was healed. Jesus did not “affirm” a gay couple, He healed someone.

Like the woman who was caught in the act of adultery and about to be stoned to death, which was legal to do, what did Jesus say? Anybody? He did not condemn her but told her “go and sin no more.”

There is at least one other instance (Mark 7:24-30) in which Jesus healed the demon-possessed daughter of a pagan woman (Syro-Phoenician). If you’ll recall his initial response to her seemed to be very insulting: “It is not right to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.” But she persisted, saying “Even the dogs eat the scraps from the master’s table.” At that point, he praised her for her faith, said her daughter had been healed, and told her to go in peace. Are we to assume from this account that Jesus thereby “affirmed” her pagan religious practices?

Something else regarding the centurion: although he asked Jesus to heal his servant, he didn’t exactly demand or expect “affirmation” from Jesus. Jesus offered to come in person but the centurion replied, “I am not worthy that you should come under my roof, but only say the word and my servant shall be healed.”

Why was the centurion “not worthy”? Most likely because he was a Gentile, and Jesus, as a Jew, could not enter his home without becoming ritually unclean. So the centurion was evidently aware of Jewish law. If he did also happen to be involved in a homosexual relationship with the servant (and that’s a VERY big if), in all probability, he would also have known that that too was against Jewish law, and that would be one more reason why he was “not worthy” to receive Jesus in person.
 
We must remember that Jesus went into the sickest places. He didn’t go to the righteous, but the the unclean the sinners. Even if the centurion was gay, he did recognize that Jesus was the son of God and thus knew that all he had today was “be healed” and it would be so. The lesson was for us, not the centurion or the sick servant. Jesus didn’t say go we your lover and be healed. I find many homosexuals have a twisted view of their sin, much like those that can’t keep their hands off of women. Those that can’t resist money. However, sin is not just sin and biblically speaking, not to mention historically speaking, homosexuality is one of the highest most sinful of all sins. It’s is closed to life COMPLETELY, and that is hate towards God, our creator. Our personal “secret sins” as some Protestats call it, such as pornography, is vile and severely disordered. As my sergeant major used to tell us, “there ain’t no right way to do wrong”. He just happened to be a preacher too. Something simply said by a Protestant preacher that holds true for all of us.

But we still must realize that we are Christian, not Jews, and we are required by the Church to also be charitable towards all sinners, even those that hate us. So don’t justify the sin of being hateful towards sinners as if you have no sin. Sure we MUST HATE SIN. God hates sin.

And now back to the thread. There is a huge political movement that if not stopped will ultimately end up being like abortion is today…openly accepted by even major religious bodies and Christians that will try to redefine everything that God has taught us through the Bible, Sacred Tradition and the Magisterium.
 
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