Jesus and "The Test"?

[fred_conty]

Patrick,

This doesn’t seem right, either: Jesus didn’t tell them “pray that I will pass the test,” but rather, “pray that you will not undergo the test.”

From what it seems to me…Jesus isn’t telling them to pray that they won’t betray him that night, but warning them about the big test that they will undergo, a future test that everyone has to face. Jesus said undergo rather that pass. That big test wasn’t the abandonment they all would commit that night, but something else. That something else it seems to me is the moment of death. He is warning them to pray and not assume anything for THE test, that will come with finality.

May the God of hope fill you with every joy.

 

[Gorgias]

From what it seems to me…Jesus isn’t telling them to pray that they won’t betray him that night

That would be the most reasonable interpretation put forward so far, but I agree, that it isn’t necessarily what Jesus is saying…

, but warning them about the big test that they will undergo, a future test that everyone has to face.

Sigh. And… we’re back to square one.

Jesus says “pray that you will not undergo the test,” not anything about the inevitability of a test. If it were something everyone had to face, why would He ask them to pray that they didn’t? That’s like saying that Jesus said, “pray that you don’t die”. That wouldn’t make sense; and neither does the assertion here…

Jesus said undergo rather that pass.

No – Jesus said not undergo.

He is warning them to pray and not assume anything for THE test, that will come with finality.

And that would be yet another completely different type of statement, something along the lines of “pray that you do not underestimate the test”… which again, is different than what He did in fact tell them.

Is it just me, or is it that every explanation put forth here is a glaring mismatch for the words Jesus actually said? To review:

Jesus said, “pray that you may not have to undergo the test.”

The possible interpretations we have seen in this thread are:

• that they may not succumb to the temptations of the Devil
• that they not be martyred
• that when the final moment does come that they will be able to undergo it without failure
• that they not undergo “the duplicitousness of Satan”
• that that Jesus would have the courage and strength to complete the Mission given to Him by the Father

These don’t seem to work: * “all have sinned and fallen short”, so all “succumb to the temptations of the Devil.” At the very least, this one is somewhat plausible, although I’d say that the meaning is ‘test’ (a positive opportunity to succeed) rather than a ‘temptation’ (a negative trial to be resisted).

• Jesus knew that they would be martyred.
• it’s not that He’s saying “undergo it well”, but rather, “that you don’t have to undergo it”; the explanation is the exact opposite of the actual quote!
• All are tempted and so, all face “the duplicitousness of Satan.”
• Jesus doesn’t ask them to pray for Him, but for themselves

 

[PJM]

=Gorgias;12553634]Patrick,

This doesn’t seem right, either: Jesus didn’t tell them “pray that I will pass the test,” but rather, “pray that you will not undergo the test.”

In a fuller context it seems to ME {IMO} Jesus does both.

Thnaks for your post

Mt. 26:36-45

**[36] Then Jesus came with them into a country place which is called Gethsemani; and he said to his disciples: Sit you here, till I go yonder and pray. [37] And taking with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, he began to grow sorrowful and to be sad. [38] Then he saith to them: My soul is sorrowful even unto death: stay you here, and watch with me **/COLOR]. [39] And going a little further, he fell upon his face, praying, and saying: My Father, if it be possible, let this chalice pass from me. Nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt. [40] And he cometh to his disciples, and findeth them asleep, and he saith to Peter: What? Could you not watch one hour with me?

**“watch with me” in the context of what Christ was doing: {praying, not so much as watching} so He is asking them to PRAY for and with Him.

[41] Watch ye, and pray that ye enter not into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh weak. [42] Again the second time, he went and prayed, saying: My Father, if this chalice may not pass away, but I must drink it, thy will be done. [43] And he cometh again and findeth them sleeping: for their eyes were heavy. [44] And leaving them, he went again: and he prayed the third time, saying the selfsame word. [45] Then he cometh to his disciples, and saith to them: Sleep ye now and take your rest; behold the hour is at hand, and the Son of man shall be betrayed into the hands of sinners."**

 

[Gorgias]

In a fuller context it seems to ME {IMO} Jesus does both.

I agree; Jesus did ask both. The OP, though, didn’t ask about the “watch with me” quote, but only the “pray that you will not undergo the test” one.

 

[josh987654321]

I agree; Jesus did ask both. The OP, though, didn’t ask about the “watch with me” quote, but only the “pray that you will not undergo the test” one.

I believe the translation that the OP used is creating most of the confusion.

Mt. 26:36-45

[41] Watch ye, and pray that ye enter not into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh weak.

Jesus to Catalina:

The Great Crusade of Mercy - loveandmercy.org/Eng-CM-Reg.pdf

**"Remember and think about the fact that it was at Gethsemane that I have asked them to pray with Me. I did not ask them to do so at Tabor but at Gethsemane, and you should understand why. But if you are not awake, attentive and watching, how can you possibly pray with Me? You are overcome by sleep, and you also will sleep and be assailed by temptation, because you have not accepted My invitation to pray with Me.

“Ah, Peter, Peter! What an example of human frailty you have left to the world that does not yet understand the great misery you suffered then at that time! You were ready to die for Me and [yet] you put yourself before all, demonstrating the pride you were filled with then. “The others, yes,” you said, “but I will not betray you.” And instead, the others did not fall as low as you fell. They were fainthearted but they did not deny Me as openly, as you have done, My Peter. And why was that?

“Because you did not remain with Me praying, so My enemy made you fall by making use of some poor people, but above all because of your failure to be united with Me.

“Peter! Peter of My Heart! Oh, My little and most beloved Peter! Throughout the entire world until the end of time your weakness and My Mercy will be alluded to. But all those who wish to follow Me: reflect on the fact that the triple fall of Peter arose from the vanity that separated him from Me, and which prevented him from praying, because those who believe they need help, do pray, and not those who are vain enough to think themselves strong.

“Remain with Me. Let us pray together, that is, I will pray in you and for you, since that is really the meaning of My request. I assure you that you will be heard and at the same time, you will be protected.”**

Extract from the book 'Imitation of Christ' by Thomas A Kempis:

Imitation of Christ - copticplace.com/files/imitation_of_Christ.pdf

Resisting Temptation

We should not despair, therefore, when we are tempted, but pray to God the more fervently that He may see fit to help us, for according to the word of Paul, He will make issue with temptation that we may be able to bear it. Let us humble our souls under the hand of God in every trial and temptation for He will save and exalt the humble in spirit.

I hope this has helped

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh