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AlegreFe
Guest
I remember that now. :yup: Why didn’t I think of it? :whacky: LOL Thanks so much.
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anawim
Guest
There’s also a mention in Galatians 2:Can you tell me where I can find that please?
1] Then after fourteen years I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, taking Titus along with me.
2] I went up by revelation; and I laid before them (but privately before those who were of repute) the gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, lest somehow I should be running or had run in vain.
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johnq
Guest
Galatians 1:Can you tell me where I can find that please?
6] I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and turning to a different gospel –
7] not that there is another gospel, but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ.
8] But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we preached to you, let him be accursed.
10] Am I now seeking the favor of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still pleasing men, I should not be a servant of Christ.
11] For I would have you know, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not man’s gospel.
12] **For I did not receive it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through a revelation of Jesus Christ. **
13] For you have heard of my former life in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God violently and tried to destroy it;
14] and I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my own age among my people, so extremely zealous was I for the traditions of my fathers.
15] But when he who had set me apart before I was born, and had called me through his grace,
16] was pleased to reveal his Son to me, in order that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not confer with flesh and blood,
17] nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me, but I went away into Arabia; and again I returned to Damascus.
18] Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to visit Cephas, and remained with him fifteen days.
19] But I saw none of the other apostles except James the Lord’s brother.
20] (In what I am writing to you, before God, I do not lie!)
21] Then I went into the regions of Syria and Cili’cia.
22] And I was still not known by sight to the churches of Christ in Judea;
23] they only heard it said, “He who once persecuted us is now preaching the faith he once tried to destroy.”
24] And they glorified God because of me.
Gal.2
1] Then after fourteen years I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, taking Titus along with me.
2] I went up by revelation; and I laid before them (but privately before those who were of repute) the gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, lest somehow I should be running or had run in vain.
3] But even Titus, who was with me, was not compelled to be circumcised, though he was a Greek.
4] But because of false brethren secretly brought in, who slipped in to spy out our freedom which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage –
5] to them we did not yield submission even for a moment, that the truth of the gospel might be preserved for you.
7] but on the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised
8] (for he who worked through Peter for the mission to the circumcised worked through me also for the Gentiles),
9] and when they perceived the grace that was given to me, James and Cephas and John, who were reputed to be pillars, gave to me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised;
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AlegreFe
Guest
Wow, thanks so much anawim & johnq. I read a couple of those yesterday because I was watching an aweful documentary full of garbage. 
Maybe you’ve heard of it. It’s from A&E and it’s called, “Christianity; the First Two Thousand Years.” Bad, bad, bad! So full of holes and mistakes. How can people make such documentaries? (rhetorical question)
I read a couple of those yesterday because I was watching an aweful documentary full of garbage. Maybe you’ve heard of it. It’s from A&E and it’s called, “Christianity; the First Two Thousand Years.” Bad, bad, bad! So full of holes and mistakes. How can people make such documentaries? (rhetorical question)
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Orionthehunter
Guest
It proves nothing Non-denom. Peter wasn’t blessed w/ all the authority until the Holy Spirit created the Church at Pentecost.
More importantly, his act was a personal act and not speaking “ex cathedra”. You are trying to use a personal sin and project it onto a Pope’s speaking to the faithful w/ the full faculties of his authority.
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AlegreFe
Guest
There seems to be no more replies in here trying to prove the doctrine of “Sola Scriptura.” Are you still looking for it or have you given up? You have until eternity to look for anything that proves you right about “Sola Scriptura.”
I am of course, speaking to Protestants out there.
I am of course, speaking to Protestants out there.
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Mystic
Guest
I have two questions. If the passage in Matt. 16:13-19 says that Jesus gave all authority over the Church to Peter, where does it say that this authority was supposed to be passed onto his successors? And second, we know from history that John was the last apostle to die, at a pretty old age actually. As it has been mentioned here (Gal. 2:9) John is called a pillar along with Peter and Barnabas. Why did not John succeed Peter to be the next Pope after Peter’s death?
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JoeyWarren
Guest
Matt. 10:1,40 - Jesus declares to His apostles, “he who receives you, receives Me, and he who rejects you, rejects Me and the One who sent Me.” Jesus freely gives His authority to the apostles in order for them to effectively convert the world.
Matt. 16:19; 18:18 - the apostles are given Christ’s authority to make visible decisions on earth that will be ratified in heaven. God raises up humanity in Christ by exalting his chosen leaders and endowing them with the authority and grace they need to bring about the conversion of all. Without a central authority in the Church, there would be chaos (as there is in Protestantism).
Luke 9:1; 10:19 - Jesus gives the apostles authority over the natural and the supernatural (diseases, demons, serpents, and scorpions).
Luke 10:16 - Jesus tells His apostles, “he who hears you, hears Me.” When we hear the bishops’ teaching on the faith, we hear Christ Himself.
Luke 22:29 - the Father gives the kingdom to the Son, and the Son gives the kingdom to the apostles. The gift is transferred from the Father to the Son to the apostles.
Num 16:28 - the Father’s authority is transferred to Moses. Moses does not speak on his own. This is a real transfer of authority.
John 5:30 - similarly, Jesus as man does nothing of His own authority, but He acts under the authority of the Father.
John 7:16-17 - Jesus as man states that His authority is not His own, but from God. He will transfer this authority to other men.
John 8:28 - Jesus says He does nothing on His own authority. Similarly, the apostles will do nothing on their own authority. Their authority comes from God.
John 12:49 - The father’s authority is transferred to the Son. The Son does not speak on his own. This is a transfer of divine authority.
John 13:20 - Jesus says, “he who receives anyone who I send, receives Me.” He who receives the apostles, receives Christ Himself. He who rejects the apostles and their successors, rejects Christ.
John 14:10 - Jesus says the Word He speaks is not His own authority, but from the Father. The gift is from the Father to Jesus to the apostles.
John 16:14-15 - what the Father has, the Son has, and the Son gives it to the apostles. The authority is not lessened or mitigated.
John 17:18; 20:21 - as the Father sends the Son, the Son sends the apostles. The apostles have divinely appointed authority.
Acts 20:28 - the apostles are shepherds and guardians appointed by the Holy Spirit / 1 Peter 2:25 - Jesus is the Shepherd and Guardian. The apostles, by the power of the Spirit, share Christ’s ministry and authority.
Jer. 23:1-8; Ezek. 34:1-10 - the shepherds must shepherd the sheep, or they will be held accountable by God.
Eph. 2:20 - the Christian faith is built upon the foundation of the apostles. The word “foundation” proves that it does not die with apostles, but carries on through succession.
Eph. 2:20; Rev. 21:9,14 - the words “household,” “Bride of the Lamb,” the “new Jerusalem” are all metaphors for the Church whose foundation is the apostles.
J
JoeyWarren
Guest
Acts 1:15-26 - the first thing Peter does after Jesus ascends into heaven is implement apostolic succession. Matthias is ordained with full apostolic authority. Only the Catholic Church can demonstrate an unbroken apostolic lineage to the apostles in union with Peter through the sacrament of ordination and thereby claim to teach with Christ’s own authority.
Acts 1:20 - a successor of Judas is chosen. The authority of his office (his “bishopric”) is respected notwithstanding his egregious sin. The necessity to have apostolic succession in order for the Church to survive was understood by all. God never said, “I’ll give you leaders with authority for about 400 years, but after the Bible is compiled, you are all on your own.”
Acts 1:22 - literally, “one must be ordained” to be a witness with us of His resurrection. Apostolic ordination is required in order to teach with Christ’s authority.
Acts 6:6 - apostolic authority is transferred through the laying on of hands (ordination). This authority has transferred beyond the original twelve apostles as the Church has grown.
Acts 9:17-19 - even Paul, who was directly chosen by Christ, only becomes a minister after the laying on of hands by a bishop. This is a powerful proof-text for the necessity of sacramental ordination in order to be a legitimate successor of the apostles.
Acts 13:3 - apostolic authority is transferred through the laying on of hands (ordination). This authority must come from a Catholic bishop.
Acts 14:23 - the apostles and newly-ordained men appointed elders to have authority throughout the Church.
Acts 15:22-27 - preachers of the Word must be sent by the bishops in union with the Church. We must trace this authority to the apostles.
2 Cor. 1:21-22 - Paul writes that God has commissioned certain men and sealed them with the Holy Spirit as a guarantee.
Col 1:25 - Paul calls his position a divine “office.” An office has successors. It does not terminate at death. Or it’s not an office. See also Heb. 7:23 – an office continues with another successor after the previous office-holder’s death.
1 Tim. 3:1 - Paul uses the word “episcopoi” (bishop) which requires an office. Everyone understood that Paul’s use of episcopoi and office meant it would carry on after his death by those who would succeed him.
1 Tim. 4:14 - again, apostolic authority is transferred through the laying on of hands (ordination).
1 Tim. 5:22 - Paul urges Timothy to be careful in laying on the hands (ordaining others). The gift of authority is a reality and cannot be used indiscriminately.
2 Tim. 1:6 - Paul again reminds Timothy the unique gift of God that he received through the laying on of hands.
2 Tim. 4:1-6 - at end of Paul’s life, Paul charges Timothy with the office of his ministry . We must trace true apostolic lineage back to a Catholic bishop.
2 Tim. 2:2 - this verse shows God’s intention is to transfer authority to successors (here, Paul to Timothy to 3rd to 4th generation). It goes beyond the death of the apostles.
Titus 1:5; Luke 10:1 - the elders of the Church are appointed and hold authority. God has His children participate in Christ’s work.
1 John 4:6 - whoever knows God listens to us (the bishops and the successors to the apostles). This is the way we discern truth and error (not just by reading the Bible and interpreting it for ourselves).
Exodus 18:25-26 - Moses appoints various heads over the people of God. We see a hierarchy, a transfer of authority and succession.
Exodus 40:15 - the physical anointing shows that God intended a perpetual priesthood with an identifiable unbroken succession.
Numbers 3:3 - the sons of Aaron were formally “anointed” priests in “ordination” to minister in the priests’ “office.”
Numbers 16:40 - shows God’s intention of unbroken succession within His kingdom on earth. Unless a priest was ordained by Aaron and his descendants, he had no authority.
Numbers 27:18-20 - shows God’s intention that, through the “laying on of hands,” one is commissioned and has authority.
Deut. 34:9 - Moses laid hands upon Joshua, and because of this, Joshua was obeyed as successor, full of the spirit of wisdom.
Sirach 45:15 - Moses ordains Aaron and anoints him with oil. There is a transfer of authority through formal ordination.
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JoeyWarren
Guest
It is interesting that you are using resources outside the bible.
Why should have John succeeded instead of Linus? The Apostles and the Disciples went abroad. It seems more logical to choose someone that was there in Rome that was being discipled by Peter to take the reins. Futhermore, John was a long way off, it would have a taken months and months to get a message to John and then taken a while for John to determine a proper successor to the Bishopric of Ephesus and spend months and months traveling to Rome. It’s just a little exercise in common sense and having some inkling about the status to travel and where everyone was. Maybe it was God’s plan all along for John not to succeed Peter since John would be needed later to write “Revelations”.
A. Judas Iscariot - you know the story in 33 AD
A James(brother of John) - Samaria, Judea, and Spain - Martyred in 47 AD(Acts 12:2) in Jerusalem
A - Andrew - Asia Minor & Greece - Martyred 63 AD in Salamis
D - Barnabus - Antioch - Martyred 64 AD in Cyprus
A - Bartholomew - India, Mesopotamia, Persia, Egypt, Armenia, Lycania, Phrygia - Martyred unknown date but in Armenia.
A James(brother of Jude) Bishop of Jerusalem - Martyred in 66 AD in Jerusalem
A. Paul - Asia Minor - martyred 67 AD in Rome.
A. Peter - Bishop of Rome - Martyred 67 AD in Rome
LINUS becomes Bishop of Rome in 67 AD
A Thomas - Parthia, Persia, and India - Martyred in 75 AD in India.
ANACLETUS becomes Bishop of Rome in 76 AD
A. Philip - Asia Minor - Martyred in 83 at Hierapolic, Phrygia
A. Matthias - Judea, Cappadocai, Egypt, and Ethiopia - Martyred in 83 AD at Colchis
A Simon - Egypt, Northern Africa, Britain, and Persia - Martyr date unknown - where and how are various
CLEMENT becomes Bishop of Rome in 88 AD
A Jude - Syria, Mesoptamina, and Persia. Martyred late in first century in Persia.
EVARISTUS becomes Bishop of Rome in 97 AD
A John - Asia Minor and Samaria - Bishop of Ephesus - died 104 AD in exile at Ephesus
ALEXANDER becomes Bishop of Rome in 105 AD
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anawim
Guest
Is. 22:22
The office of prime minister is being passed from Shebna to Eliakim. This office of the prime minister was of the house of David…who had been dead for 500 years at this point in time. This office was successionary. Jesus quotes this passage, not just to establish that Peter and the Apostles were the successors to the Sanhedrin, but that it would continue to be successionary.
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