Jesus as prophet

[ryanoneil]

I’m a Catholic who is pretty ignorant about Islam. I’ve never read the Qur’an. I’ve read bits of the discussions here and understand Muslim’s believe that Jesus is a prophet. I also understand the prophet Muhammad is said to give the final word of God. If I’m not mistaken Allah and God the Father are the same God according to Muhammed.

BUT, I get the impression that Allah is seen more as the “eye for an eye” God of the Old Testament, than the All loving, All forgiving God the Father, that was revealed to us by Jesus Christ.
Like I said i’m ignorant and I honestly don’t know what Muslims believe. This is my impression.

1. Is my impression correct?

AND

1. If the Christian and Muslim idea of God the Father are different, How could Jesus be considered a prophet by Muhammed?

All perspectives are welcomed, but I would really like to hear quotes from the Qur’an. Obviously I’m looking for a Muslim perspective. I’m really trying to be charitable for conversation’s sake and hope the conversation doesn’t get sidetracked and degenerate. Please talk about God the Father because I know we disagree about the Trinity.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

I don’t think muslims have a good understanding as to what defines a “prophet”.

One of the tenets of Islam is that “There is not God but Allah, and Muhammed is his messenger.” So be it; Good luck to muslims and their faith.

But nowadays, muslims incorrectly refer to Muhammed as a “prophet”. Neither Jesus nor Muhammed are prophets because they didn’t leave us with any prophecy. (Sure, Jesus fulfilled prophecy; But He didn’t really leave us with any prophecy.)

So, immediately we have a communication break-down, because there is a different interpretation of who or what is a “prophet”. Hence, this is probably the reason for all your (our) confusion.

 

[paarsurrey]

Neither Jesus nor Muhammed are prophets because they didn’t leave us with any prophecy

Hi

I don’t agree with you.

Jesus was a true ProphetMessenger as also Muhammad. I mention hereunder their prophecies.

**Jesus’ Prophecy **:

Jesus prophesized that Jews won’t be successful in killing him though they would attempt his murder to prove him a false prophet yet they couldn’t accomplish it. He was to show them the Sign of Jonah, and Jonah went into the belly of the fish alive, but miraculously he was saved and came out from the belly of the fish alive
Similarly though the Jews put Jesus on the Cross, nevertheless he did not die on it, GodAllahYHWH saved his life and he later migrated elsewhere secretly. The prophecy was fulfilled; hence Jesus was a truthful ProphetMessenger by all means. I love Jesus and Mary.

**Muhammad’s Prophecy **:

Abu Hurairah narrated from the Prophet Muhammad SAW that he said:
I swear by Him in whose hands rests my life or death that you would definitely witness advent of the Ibne Maryam (Son of Mary); a truthful judge (among faiths/religions), he would break the Cross (with arguments) and kill the swine and suspend the war (for religious conversion).
(Bukhari Kitabul Anbeya, Bab Nazul-e Essa Ibne Maryam)

Yushaku man aasha minkum ianyulka eisabna maryama imamun mahduyyun , hakamun iadualun yakserus saleba wa yaktulul khinzera

One who would be alive (at that time), he would meet Issa (JesusYeshua) s/o Maryam (MaryMerium) in the position of ImamMahdi (DivineGuided), a truthful judge (among faiths/religions); he would break the Cross (with arguments) and kill the swine. (Masnad Ahmad 156/2)

This prophecy of Muhammad has been fulfilled in Jesus’ Second Coming 1835-1908, in the form of the PromisedMessiah Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.

Muhammad is also proved a true prophet.
I think that is reasonable.

Thanks

 

[dolphinlove]

Hi

Muhammad is also proved a true prophet.

How is he a true prophet? what proof do you have to back this claim up?

 

[paarsurrey]

How is he a true prophet? what proof do you have to back this claim up?

Hi

Please read my post clearly. A prophecy of Muhammad has been mentioned by me which has been fulfilled, so that is a proof that Muhammad is a true Prophet.The proof has not been accepted by you that is another thing. Jews did not accept Jesus; that does not prove that Jesus was not a truthful prophet. I think so.

Thanks

 

[Montalban]

I’m a Catholic who is pretty ignorant about Islam. I’ve never read the Qur’an. I’ve read bits of the discussions here and understand Muslim’s believe that Jesus is a prophet. I also understand the prophet Muhammad is said to give the final word of God.

Not according to paarsurrey’s version of Islam - that has more revelations.

If I’m not mistaken Allah and God the Father are the same God according to Muhammed.

Moslems believe that their god is our god, yes.

BUT, I get the impression that Allah is seen more as the “eye for an eye” God of the Old Testament, than the All loving, All forgiving God the Father, that was revealed to us by Jesus Christ.
Like I said i’m ignorant and I honestly don’t know what Muslims believe. This is my impression.

Worse than that. He’s a deceiver. And he’s not ‘just’. Even a good Moslem may still not be rewarded- Al-lah is totally whimsical.

1. If the Christian and Muslim idea of God the Father are different, How could Jesus be considered a prophet by Muhammed?

They simply deny Jesus to be part of God.

 

[paarsurrey]

Not according to paarsurrey’s version of Islam - that has more revelations.

Hi

No that is not correct.

There is no change in Quran; a revelation could be received which explains the true meaning of Quran witout abrogating it.

For instance, Jesus was not killed on Cross, that has been mentioned in Quran in about 30 places/verses, yet the Mullah could not understand it, so GodAllahYHWH told the PromisedMessiah 1835-1908 ( Second Coming of Jesus) the true meaning of the verses. The text of the verses of the Quran remains the same but the true meaning with true arguments is explained.

I think now you understand.

Thanks

 

[St_Isidore]

Hi

No that is not correct.

There is no change in Quran; a revelation could be received which explains the true meaning of Quran witout abrogating it.

For instance, Jesus was not killed on Cross, that has been mentioned in Quran in about 30 places/verses, yet the Mullah could not understand it, so GodAllahYHWH told the PromisedMessiah 1835-1908 ( Second Coming of Jesus) the true meaning of the verses. The text of the verses of the Quran remains the same but the true meaning with true arguments is explained.

I think now you understand.

Thanks

You seem to start new threads whenever confronted with ERRORS in the KORAN. You can continue to post your Propaganda and in large font, but it does not change a thing about the KORAN. I have posted ERRORS IN THE KORAN, and they are numerous, and you have avoided them.

Case in point: (now do not start a new thread just explain this- you can run from the truth but it will follow, always)

MORE ERRORS FOUND IN KORAN !!!:

How Many Days Did It Take To Create Heavens And Earth?

(Koran 7:54)
Your guardian-Lord is Allah. Who created the heavens and the earth in SIX Days…

(Koran 10:3)
Verily your Lord is Allah, who created the heavens and the earth in SIX Days…

(Koran 11:7)
He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in ***SIX ***days…

(Koran 25:29)
He Who created the heavens And the earth and all that is between, in SIX days…

NOW LOOK NOW HERE:

(Koran 41:9)
Is it that ye Deny Him who created the earth in TWO days?..

(Koran 41:10)
He set on the (earth). Mountains standing firm,
high above it, and bestowed blessings on the
earth, and measured therein all things to
give them nourishment in due proportion, in FOUR days…

(Koran 41:12)
So He completed them as seven firmaments in TWO days and…

**So which one of these is correct? **

So what is your next thread going to be?

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

… Jesus prophesized that Jews won’t be successful in killing him…

Thank you, paarsurrey, for proving my point. We have a communication breakdown between christians and muslims.

We have a different knowledge of history. We can not agree to a simple historical event, such as the death of Jesus on The Cross.

How can we discuss more complicated matters, such as “prophets” and prophecy? Dare I say, we can’t.

If we can’t agree as to whether or not Jesus died on The Cross, then we should cut our losses, “shake the dust of our feet” (Mt 10:14), and move on to the next topic.

 

[paarsurrey]

Thank you, paarsurrey, for proving my point. We have a communication breakdown between christians and muslims.

Hi

Sorry, I don’t agree with you. The communication gap is to start with between Jesus and the Catholics, I think. When that gap would be removed, there won’t be any gap between the Catholics and the Muslims, I must say.

I am always for keeping the door of reasonable dialogue open; as there is no compulsion in it and it promotes peace.

Thank

 

[Montalban]

Thank you, paarsurrey, for proving my point. We have a communication breakdown between christians and muslims.

He’s a Moslem. Their god deceives people.

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

Hi

**Jesus’ Prophecy **

:

Jesus prophesized that Jews won’t be successful in killing him though they would attempt his murder to prove him a false prophet yet they couldn’t accomplish it. He was to show them the Sign of Jonah, and Jonah went into the belly of the fish alive, but miraculously he was saved and came out from the belly of the fish alive
Similarly though the Jews put Jesus on the Cross, nevertheless he did not die on it, GodAllahYHWH saved his life and he later migrated elsewhere secretly. The prophecy was fulfilled; hence Jesus was a truthful ProphetMessenger by all means. I love Jesus and Mary.

Thanks

You don’t get it, do you paasurrey???

You make this goofy, unprovable, unbelievable statements and you act like we agree and understand you.

Charlie was being IRONIC in his response. That is the most charitable way to put it.

You prove many preconceptions about Islam correct with your goofy assertions. And you still hang around here! Amazing!

Robert

 

[ryanoneil]

Jesus prophesized that Jews won’t be successful in killing him though they would attempt his murder to prove him a false prophet yet they couldn’t accomplish it.

Does Jesus say this in a Christian bible? I don’t remember seeing that in my bible. Could you tell me what chapter and verse in the bible he says this?

Thank You

 

[paarsurrey]

Does Jesus say this in a Christian bible? I don’t remember seeing that in my bible. Could you tell me what chapter and verse in the bible he says this?
Thank You

Hi

Please read my post clearly, that is implied where Jesus mentioned Sign of Jonah.

Thanks

 

[Montalban]

ryanoneil, see how paarsurrey evaded your question. Where Jesus mentioned Jonah in the Bible is now that question that goes begging.

 

[ryanoneil]

Hi

Please read my post clearly, that is implied where Jesus mentioned Sign of Jonah.

Thanks

I understand you DO NOT believe Jesus is part of the trinity, and you know that I DO. it is hard to put aside my beliefs about Jesus for the sake of conversation, and think of Him as a prophet, BUT my original question still stands.

Do Muslim’s view God the Father the same way Christians do? I’ll try to phrase it another way. Do Muhammed and Jesus disagree on the nature of God the Father? If they disagree on important things, wouldn’t one of them have to be a false prophet?

 

[exoflare]

lol who gave this thread a one star rating? As if there was anything bad at all about the OP asking an honest question.

 

[paarsurrey]

Do Muslim’s view God the Father the same way Christians do?

Hi

We Muslims donot have any concept of GodAllahYHWH being father, or son, or spirit.

I would quote here from Quran, a very short Chapter which clarifies the concept:

The Holy Quran : Chapter 112: Al-Ikhlas
[112:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[112:2] Say 'He is Allah, the One!
[112:3] Allah the Independent and Besought of all.
[112:4] 'He begets not, nor, is He begotten,
[112:5] And there is none like unto Him.

Unquote

Thanks

 

[ryanoneil]

Hi

We Muslims donot have any concept of GodAllahYHWH being father, or son, or spirit.

Thank for quoting the Qu’ran paarsurrey. That speaks to my point. Jesus calls God “The Father” so many times in the Bible, but Muslims don’t have a concept of God the Father.

I just don’t understand how Muslims could accept Jesus as a prophet of GodAllahYHWH, when you do not believe what He says.

Please! Can anyone explain this to me?

 

[paarsurrey]

Thank for quoting the Qu’ran paarsurrey. That speaks to my point. Jesus calls God “The Father” so many times in the Bible, but Muslims don’t have a concept of God the Father.

I just don’t understand how Muslims could accept Jesus as a prophet of GodAllahYHWH, when you do not believe what He says.

Please! Can anyone explain this to me?

Hi

NTGospels hardly report Jesus’ words, and those reported have not necessarily been spoken by Jesus.

Thanks