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geometer
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How would a metaphor become so elevated? Why would a good metaphor change history?
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Detales
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That is pretty simple, Geometer. The metaphor/myth that the Iesus story originally comes from is a practical map for spiritual transformation. It was admittedly usurped, historicized and politicized for popular consumption and power. Those who still understand the keys and meanings of what was originally meant to be a hidden teaching protected from the public are yet following that map and experiencing spiritual regeneration.
There is nothing wrong with having the story as a faith. It yet fulfills the function of a protection. But it may in some instances, be too much of a prophylactic. In my own case I had to go outside the Church to discover what was already there, but disconnected from the public understanding in such a way that I could not make my next step, as no one I talked with had a clue. At least in a competent system those ready to make the next step would/could be recognized and invited to advance. Instead, I had to do a rather personally expensive search and take years to re-stabilize after my culminative shock of realization.
I am afraid that the Church as we know it is in the same bureaucratic mess as our governmental and financial institutions.
There is nothing wrong with having the story as a faith. It yet fulfills the function of a protection. But it may in some instances, be too much of a prophylactic. In my own case I had to go outside the Church to discover what was already there, but disconnected from the public understanding in such a way that I could not make my next step, as no one I talked with had a clue. At least in a competent system those ready to make the next step would/could be recognized and invited to advance. Instead, I had to do a rather personally expensive search and take years to re-stabilize after my culminative shock of realization.
I am afraid that the Church as we know it is in the same bureaucratic mess as our governmental and financial institutions.
G
geometer
Guest
Are you saying that you have been regenerated? What was that like?That is pretty simple, Geometer. The metaphor/myth that the Iesus story originally comes from is a practical map for spiritual transformation. It was admittedly usurped, historicized and politicized for popular consumption and power. Those who still understand the keys and meanings of what was originally meant to be a hidden teaching protected from the public are yet following that map and experiencing spiritual regeneration.
D
Detales
Guest
I don’t know that “regenerated” is exactly the right word. But what happened, in utterly simplistic and inadequate terms, is that I had a series of mystical experiences through my rigorous practice of prayer and devotion. Those culminated in something that is simply not conveyable in words, but which pulled out from under me every shred and thread of identification with anything I had previous to it relative to my thoughts about who and what I was. Though my friends who witnessed the event thought I had gone bonkers, the proof of matters was that my cognitive skills and perceptions had actually improved. Unfortunately, my miserable attempts at explications of what happened put me in a position of being a pink monkey amongst brown ones. No one, including clergy, many of them, had a clue as to what I was talking about. They blamed it on everything from hormones to lack of faith. Au contrair.
Eventually, I had not recourse but to follow crumbs of evidence to what became my understanding of not only my own experience, but of the context in which christianism came to be. OK, I was regenerated! I had a cognitive line of great practical significance that bypassed the need of faith based explications of what is in fact an interior transformation in spiritual understanding. Until that gelled, I had to deal with the instability caused by the difference between the actuality of my experience and the inadequacies of my birth religion to deal with it.
Fortunately, I found a living proponent of the ages old system of Understanding I am talking about, and was able to work my way into an integration on an intellectual level of my experience with what I already knew experientially but had no language for, being only a Catholic in my understanding at first. Now I see a more inclusive picture and understand how it happened that my own church fell out of Understanding.
But Augustine talked about that, as did some others, but as with everything I have said, I strongly recommend you do not believe it. As one man said, “The search for Reality is the most dangerous undertaking; it will destroy your world.” This is true. But while mine was unceremoniously and without warning jerked out from under me, it is possible to arrive at a similar result through the ancient dictum “Know Thyself.”
For what good is the contents of your mind, especially in a matter as ultimately important as salvation, if you do not know the nature of the container? The container brings with it distortions of actuality that you/we are in some. many, actually, cases not even dimly aware of. These can be brought to Light and the necessary course corrections made. You can avoid the rocks that endanger by partial information the ship of soul for so many. Do remember that the map, religion, is not the territory!
Eventually, I had not recourse but to follow crumbs of evidence to what became my understanding of not only my own experience, but of the context in which christianism came to be. OK, I was regenerated! I had a cognitive line of great practical significance that bypassed the need of faith based explications of what is in fact an interior transformation in spiritual understanding. Until that gelled, I had to deal with the instability caused by the difference between the actuality of my experience and the inadequacies of my birth religion to deal with it.
Fortunately, I found a living proponent of the ages old system of Understanding I am talking about, and was able to work my way into an integration on an intellectual level of my experience with what I already knew experientially but had no language for, being only a Catholic in my understanding at first. Now I see a more inclusive picture and understand how it happened that my own church fell out of Understanding.
But Augustine talked about that, as did some others, but as with everything I have said, I strongly recommend you do not believe it. As one man said, “The search for Reality is the most dangerous undertaking; it will destroy your world.” This is true. But while mine was unceremoniously and without warning jerked out from under me, it is possible to arrive at a similar result through the ancient dictum “Know Thyself.”
For what good is the contents of your mind, especially in a matter as ultimately important as salvation, if you do not know the nature of the container? The container brings with it distortions of actuality that you/we are in some. many, actually, cases not even dimly aware of. These can be brought to Light and the necessary course corrections made. You can avoid the rocks that endanger by partial information the ship of soul for so many. Do remember that the map, religion, is not the territory!
G
geometer
Guest
Was it a Kundalini experience?I don’t know that “regenerated” is exactly the right word. But what happened, in utterly simplistic and inadequate terms, is that I had a series of mystical experiences through my rigorous practice of prayer and devotion. Those culminated in something that is simply not conveyable in words, but which pulled out from under me every shred and thread of identification with anything I had previous to it relative to my thoughts about who and what I was. Though my friends who witnessed the event thought I had gone bonkers, the proof of matters was that my cognitive skills and perceptions had actually improved. Unfortunately, my miserable attempts at explications of what happened put me in a position of being a pink monkey amongst brown ones. No one, including clergy, many of them, had a clue as to what I was talking about. They blamed it on everything from hormones to lack of faith. Au contrair.
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Detales
Guest
No, that happened later in a rather spectacular way.
BFN
BFN
G
geometer
Guest
Well, are you studying under a Guru?No, that happened later in a rather spectacular way.
BFN
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Detales
Guest
No. I did however spend close to thirty years associated with a metaphysician who had a peculiar facility for resolving impasses in the deliberations of everyone from Jesuits to Jains. He was called by some “the new St. John Chrysostom” and “Living Vedanta” by others. In any case he was a living example of the balancing, as far as I could tell, of the mystic and the scholar. And like any good piano teacher, he made us listen to and understand many philosophers, Teachers, and Saints. He liked to call them the “Saints and Sages of the Ages.”
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