Jesus being baptized

  • Thread starter Thread starter chypmonk
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
C

chypmonk

Guest
Isn’t there more to it than Jesus giving us an example of humility? Many things Jesus did gives us an examples of humility. I never was very satisfied with “just giving us and example.” Anyone out there who has some more insights to this?
 
chypmonk said:
Isn’t there more to it than Jesus giving us an example of humility? Many things Jesus did gives us an examples of humility. I never was very satisfied with “just giving us and example.” Anyone out there who has some more insights to this?
Click to expand...
There is picture on your post…read his work “Jesus of Nazareth” vol 1

🙂
 
Also from him:

"We have just heard the account of the Baptism of Jesus in the Jordan. It was a different Baptism from that which these babies are about to receive but is deeply connected with it. Basically, the whole mystery of Christ in the world can be summed up in this term: “baptism”, which in Greek means “immersion”. The Son of God, who from eternity shares the fullness of life with the Father and the Holy Spirit, was “immersed” in our reality as sinners to make us share in his own life: he was incarnate, he was born like us, he grew up like us and, on reaching adulthood, manifested his mission which began precisely with the “baptism of conversion” administered by John the Baptist. Jesus’ first public act, as we have just heard, was to go down into the Jordan, mingling among repentant sinners, in order to receive this baptism. John was naturally reluctant to baptize him, but because this was the Father’s will, Jesus insisted (cf. Mt 3: 13-15).

Why, therefore, did the Father desire this? Was it because he had sent his Only-Begotten Son into the world as the Lamb to take upon himself the sins of the world (cf. Jn 1: 29)? The Evangelist recounts that when Jesus emerged from the waters, the Holy Spirit descended upon him in the form of a dove, while the Father’s voice from Heaven proclaimed him “my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased” (Mt 3: 17). From that very moment, therefore, Jesus was revealed as the One who came to baptize humanity in the Holy Spirit: he came to give men and women life in abundance (cf. Jn 10: 10), eternal life, which brings the human being back to life and heals him entirely, in body and in spirit, restoring him to the original plan for which he was created. "
–Pope Benedict XVI

From: vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20080113_battesimo_en.html
 
more:

“Returning now to the Gospel passage, let us seek to better understand what is happening today. St Mark recounts that it was just when John the Baptist was preaching on the banks of the River Jordan, proclaiming the urgent need for conversion in view of the now imminent coming of the Messiah, that Jesus, who was among the crowds, presented himself to be baptized. John’s Baptism is indisputably a Baptism of penance, very different from the sacrament that Jesus was to institute. At that moment, however, the Redeemer’s mission is already glimpsed because, when he comes out of the water, a voice comes from Heaven and the Holy Spirit descends upon him (cf. Mk 1: 10); the heavenly Father proclaims him as his beloved Son and publicly attests to his universal saving mission, which will be fully accomplished with his death on the Cross and his Resurrection. Only then, with the Paschal Sacrifice, would the forgiveness of sins be rendered universal and total.”–Pope Benedict XVI

from: vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20090111_battesimo_en.html
 
more…

"On this day, on the banks of the Jordan, Jesus reveals himself to John and to the People of Israel. It is the first time that he enters the public scene as an adult, after leaving Nazareth. We find him with John the Baptist to whom multitudes have flocked, in an unusual scene. In the Gospel passage that has just been proclaimed St Luke remarks first of all that the people “were in expectation” (3: 15). In this way he emphasizes the expectation of Israel and, in those people who had left their homes and their usual tasks, the profound desire for a different world and new words that seem to find an answer precisely in the Precursor’s words, that may be severe and demanding and yet are full of hope. The baptism John offers is one of repentance, a sign that is an invitation to conversion, to a change of life, because One is coming who will “baptize with the Holy Spirit and with fire” (3: 16). Indeed it is impossible to aspire to a new world while remaining immersed in selfishness and habits linked to sin. Jesus too leaves his home and his customary occupations to go to the Jordan. He arrives among the crowd that is listening to the John the Baptist and queues up like everyone else, waiting to be baptized.
As soon as he sees Jesus approaching, John realizes that there is something unique in this Man, that he is the mysterious Other for whom he has been waiting and to whom his whole life is oriented. He understands that before him stands One who is greater than he, the thong of whose sandals he is not even worthy to untie.

At the Jordan Jesus reveals himself with an extraordinary humility, reminiscent of the poverty and simplicity of the Child laid in the manger, and anticipates the sentiments with which, at the end of his days on earth, he will come to the point of washing the feet of the disciples and suffering the terrible humiliation of the Cross. The Son of God, the One who is without sin, puts himself among sinners, demonstrates God’s closeness to the process of the human being’s conversion. Jesus takes upon his shoulders the burden of sin of the whole of humanity, he begins his mission by putting himself in our place, in the place of sinners, in the perspective of the Cross.

While absorbed in prayer he emerges from the water after his Baptism, the skies break open. It is the moment awaited by so many prophets: “O that you would rend the heavens and come down!”, Isaiah had prayed (64: 1). At that moment, St Luke seems to suggest, this prayer is heard. Indeed, “The heaven was opened, and the Holy Spirit descended upon him” (3: 21-22); and words were heard that had never been heard before: “You are my beloved Son; with you I am well pleased” (v. 22). In going up out of the water, as St Gregory Nazianzen says, Jesus “sees the heaven opened which Adam had shut against himself and all his posterity” (Discourse 39 per il Battesimo del Signore, PG 36). "–Pope Benedict XVI

From: vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2010/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20100110_battesimo_en.html
 
thanks that was very nice 🙂

I though tit was something like that. I remember reading one of the Church Fathers saying Jeus sanctified the water in preparation for the sacrament. But it wan’t clear in what way. I like when the Pope wrote;

The Son of God, the One who is without sin, puts himself among sinners, demonstrates God’s closeness to the process of the human being’s conversion. Jesus takes upon his shoulders the burden of sin of the whole of humanity, he begins his mission by putting himself in our place, in the place of sinners, in the perspective of the Cross.

This makes more sense to me than just being an example as the pope points out there are many examples of humility(IMO greater) than being baptized.

In my thoughts to distill the above quote, Jesus receives our sins from the water while we give our sins to the water.
Would you agree?
 
chypmonk said:
Isn’t there more to it than Jesus giving us an example of humility? Many things Jesus did gives us an examples of humility. I never was very satisfied with “just giving us and example.” Anyone out there who has some more insights to this?
Click to expand...
he also instituted baptism as a sacrament, elevating it from a sign of conversion and penitential act to a means of grace and salvation
he in entering the water of the river Jordan blessed all water for baptism and other rites
he prefigured his own death and resurrection in entering and rising out of the water which is why that symbolism is inherent in the baptismal rite
he demonstrated what he meant when he insisted on baptism by water and the Holy Spirit as the normal pathway to salvation
 
It’s the initition of the Sacrament of Baptism (through water and God’s blessing).

vatican.va/archive/compendium_ccc/documents/archive_2005_compendium-ccc_en.html#The sacraments of Christian initiation

Compendium of the Catholic Church
  1. What names are given to the first sacrament of initiation?
1213-1216 1276-1277

This sacrament is primarily called Baptism because of the central rite with which it is celebrated. To baptize means to “immerse” in water.

The one who is baptized is immersed into the death of Christ and rises with him as a “new creature” (2 Corinthians 5:17).

This sacrament is also called the “bath of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit” (Titus 3:5); and it is called “enlightenment” because the baptized becomes “a son of light” (Ephesians 5:8).
  1. How is Baptism prefigured in the Old Covenant?
1217-1222

In the Old Covenant Baptism was pre-figured in various ways: water, seen as source of life and of death; in the Ark of Noah, which saved by means of water; in the passing through the Red Sea, which liberated Israel from Egyptian slavery; in the crossing of the Jordan River, that brought Israel into the promised land which is the image of eternal life.
  1. Who brought to fulfillment those prefigurations?
1223-1224

All the Old Covenant prefigurations find their fulfillment in Jesus Christ. At the beginning of his public life Jesus had himself baptized by John the Baptist in the Jordan. On the cross, blood and water, signs of Baptism and the Eucharist, flowed from his pierced side. After his Resurrection he gave to his apostles this mission: “Go forth and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” (Matthew 28:19).
  1. Starting when and to whom has the Church administered Baptism?
1226-1228

From the day of Pentecost, the Church has administered Baptism to anyone who believes in Jesus Christ.
  1. In what does the essential rite of Baptism consist?
1229-1245 1278

The essential rite of this sacrament consists in immersing the candidate in water or pouring water over his or her head while invoking the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.
 
puzzleannie said:
he also instituted baptism as a sacrament, elevating it from a sign of conversion and penitential act to a means of grace and salvation
he in entering the water of the river Jordan blessed all water for baptism and other rites
he prefigured his own death and resurrection in entering and rising out of the water which is why that symbolism is inherent in the baptismal rite
he demonstrated what he meant when he insisted on baptism by water and the Holy Spirit as the normal pathway to salvation
Click to expand...
All this is true, but when I pray the Luminous Mysteries - The Baptism of Jesus in the Jordan, I principally think of the incident as Jesus being commissioned by the Father for His assigned work on earth, and being blessed by the Holy Spirit. Truly, the Baptism of Jesus was the beginning of His mission on earth. What better way to start than by this formal commissioning and blessing by the Father and Holy Spirit?
 
chypmonk said:
thanks that was very nice 🙂

I though tit was something like that. I remember reading one of the Church Fathers saying Jeus sanctified the water in preparation for the sacrament. But it wan’t clear in what way. I like when the Pope wrote;

The Son of God, the One who is without sin, puts himself among sinners, demonstrates God’s closeness to the process of the human being’s conversion. Jesus takes upon his shoulders the burden of sin of the whole of humanity, he begins his mission by putting himself in our place, in the place of sinners, in the perspective of the Cross.

This makes more sense to me than just being an example as the pope points out there are many examples of humility(IMO greater) than being baptized.

In my thoughts to distill the above quote, Jesus receives our sins from the water while we give our sins to the water.
Would you agree?
Click to expand...
One could talk “in a sense” like that (in the way the Pope meant it)…though it would be more “our sins are washed away by the water” not we “give them”…for it is something we do not do…but God does…

In the Sacrament of Baptism (our Baptism…Jesus’ was not the sacrament) yes our sins are “washed away” …the sign of the washing really “effects” what it signifies…but of course this is by the Holy Spirit…

(see the CCC, CCCC, and the fuller texts of the homilies above linked…they are very rich)
 
He did so so that john the baptist could declare Him to be The Lamb of God.

Imagine the Jews around Him. They knew what lambs were for- to be sacrificed for the atonement.

He did it to justify that John was the one who was to come before Him, the voice crying out in the wilderness, to fulfill prophecy.

But the biggest thing was that this was the moment, chosen by God, Jesus was seen to have the Holy Spirit descend upon Him like a dove and the Jews to hear their Creator declare Him to be His beloved Son.

He then began His ministry at age 30, a High Priest
 
Someone once told me that when Jesus was baptized, that’s when it became a sacrament. He literally entered into baptism.

MW
 
I think that Jesus felt a sort of collective repentance, like Daniel. Daniel was righteous in God’s eyes, but in Daniel 9 he says a prayer like “we have sinned and done wrong. We have been wicked and have rebelled; we have turned away from your commands and laws”, etc. Of course, Daniel never did those things, but Israel did; and Daniel identified himself with Israel.

I believe Jesus also identified Himself with us and felt a ‘collective’ repentance.

And of course, He also did it as an example for us. I think there are more reasons but these are the only ones I know.

Have a nice day.
 
I’ll just copy and paste some possibilities and some views that have been held by the fathers regarding the baptism of Jesus.
  • Jesus was baptized to fulfill the prophecy that “There shall come forth a shoot from the stump of Jesse, and a branch shall grow out of his roots. And the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and the fear of the LORD.”
  • David and the kings after him were anointed by Levitical priests with oil. When King David was anointed, “the Spirit of the LORD came mightily” upon him (1 Sam 16:13 ). Jesus, the fulfillment of the Davidic kingdom, likewise received a sort of anointment by a Levitical priest (John the Baptist) when He was baptized. The Holy Spirit came upon Him, just as the Spirit came upon David.
  • The Catechism states that Jesus’ baptism was the inauguration and acceptance of his mission as the suffering servant. He “fulfilled all righteousness” by being obedient to God and allowing Himself to be counted with those who have sinned, even though He knew no sin. His baptism also anticipates his death and resurrection (536 and 537).
  • Many fathers, such as St. Ignatius of Antioch and St. Ambrose believed that Jesus was baptized not to be cleansed, but to cleanse the waters, to sanctify them through His perfect divinity, and make them suitable for the Sacrament of Baptism. St. Ambrose also suggests that Jesus was baptized as an example for us. He wrote, “this is justice, to do first thyself that which thou wishest another to do, and so encourage others by thy example.”
  • St. Hilary of Poiters saw Jesus’ baptism as an illustration of what happens to us at our baptism. He wrote, “Everything that happened to Christ lets us know that, after the bath of water, the Holy Spirit swoops down upon us from high heaven and that, adopted by the Father’s voice, we become sons of God” (In Matth. 2, 5: PL 9, 927).
  • Jesus’ baptism fulfills the typology of the crossing of the Jordan. Just as Joshua (whose name is another form of the name “Jesus” and is a type of Jesus) led the Hebrews across the Jordan into the Promised Land (Josh 3), so too Jesus leads us through the waters of baptism into heaven.
  • Jesus’ baptism also provides a contrast between Himself and the nation of Israel, showing that He succeeded where the Israelites had failed. There are surprising similarities between Jesus and the nation of Israel. In Exodus 4:22, we read that God identified the nation of Israel as His firstborn son. Israel, after being “baptized into Moses” in the Red Sea, wandered for 40 years in the desert, grumbled about food (Ex 16:2), “put the LORD to a test” by demanding water (Ex 17:2), and worshiped the golden calf. Jesus, God’s true firstborn Son, reversed the disobedience of the Israelites. After His baptism, He went into the desert for 40 days, refused to turn the stones into bread, refused to put the Lord to a test by throwing Himself off of the temple, and refused to worship Satan. (Mt 4:1-10)
  • St. Augustine saw a connection between the crossing of the Jordan in the book of Joshua and Jesus’ baptism. He wrote in a sermon for the Epiphany, “As of yore the waters of the Jordan were held back, so now, when Christ was baptized, the torrent of sin was held back.” Augustine saw the Jordan River as a symbol of sin, which blocks us from heaven, just as the river blocked the Hebrews from the promised land. Just as the Ark of the Covenant, when it entered into the Jordan, blocked the water so the Hebrews could pass, so Jesus, when he entered into the Jordan, stopped the flow of sin by instituting the Sacrament of Baptism, allowing us to enter the kingdom of heaven. The book of Joshua records an interesting detail regarding St. Augustine’s observation: “No sooner had these priestly bearers of the ark waded into the waters at the edge of the Jordan, which overflows all its banks during the entire season of the harvest, than the waters flowing from upstream halted, backing up in a solid mass for a very great distance indeed, from Adam, a city in the direction of Zarethan” (Josh 3: 14-15) Just as the Jordan flowed from a city called Adam, so too, the “torrent of sin” flows from Adam down to all of us who share his fallen human nature, blocking our entrance into heaven.
 
Thanks Cap!
  • Many fathers, such as St. Ignatius of Antioch and St. Ambrose believed that Jesus was baptized not to be cleansed, but to cleanse the waters, to sanctify them through His perfect divinity, and make them suitable for the Sacrament of Baptism.
Click to expand...
This is more along the lines I was thinking. Thanks
 
  • David and the kings after him were anointed by Levitical priests with oil. When King David was anointed, “the Spirit of the LORD came mightily” upon him (1 Sam 16:13 ). Jesus, the fulfillment of the Davidic kingdom, likewise received a sort of anointment by a Levitical priest (John the Baptist) when He was baptized. The Holy Spirit came upon Him, just as the Spirit came upon David.
Very interesting parallel Capt.!

The Old Testament prefiguring the New Testament.
 
chypmonk said:
Thanks Cap!

This is more along the lines I was thinking. Thanks
Click to expand...
It’s an interesting idea. I sometimes I wonder exactly what Ignaitus meant by “sanctify the waters”. It’s a little odd for Catholics, since the water is only the outward sign and it’s the Spirit doing the work in baptism. But perhaps Christ wanted even the water to be holy? It seems like in the early Church, the fathers put more emphasis on things being holy in-and-of-themselves. For example, it seems like today Catholics describe relics as simply being physical objects that God uses to perform miracles. But in the early Church, there seemed to be more emphasis on their having a certain sanctity or power inherit in themselves. It’s a slightly different way to describe the same phenomenon.

At any rate, Ignatius was a very early witness. It makes one wonder if the teaching was apostolic in origin or just his own interpretation.
 
Barbkw said:
  • David and the kings after him were anointed by Levitical priests with oil. When King David was anointed, “the Spirit of the LORD came mightily” upon him (1 Sam 16:13 ). Jesus, the fulfillment of the Davidic kingdom, likewise received a sort of anointment by a Levitical priest (John the Baptist) when He was baptized. The Holy Spirit came upon Him, just as the Spirit came upon David.
Very interesting parallel Capt.!

The Old Testament prefiguring the New Testament.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I really like that sort of stuff. I got that one from Scott Hahn. The article is here:
salvationhistory.com/studies/lesson/reign_the_son_of_david_in_matthews_gospel#II.A.
I don’t think that there is much more on the topic than already mentioned here. If you’re interested in typology, I’d recommend reading the essay in my signiture on baptism. I’d just skip down to the section on the Old Testament and read that. Even that section is a little long, so you could skim through it to see if anything jumps out at you that you find interesting. 👍
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top