Jesus' brethren and not cousins

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I have wondered how St James is related to Jesus.

Galatians 1:19
But I saw none of the other apostles except James the Lord’s brother.

… seems he must be considered step brother, for Catholics. This may be why he was afforded the position of Bishop of Jerusalem?
Jerome here believed that the “brothers” of the Lord were Jesus’ cousins, thus amplifying the doctrine of perpetual virginity. Jerome concluded that James “the brother of the Lord”, (Galatians 1:19) is therefore James, son of Alphaeus, one of the Twelve Apostles of Jesus, and the son of Mary Cleophas.

In two small but potentially important works of Hippolytus, On the Twelve Apostles of Christ and On theSeventy Apostles of Christ, he relates the following:

And James the son of Alphaeus, when preaching in Jerusalem was stoned to death by the Jews, and was buried there beside the temple.

James, ‘the brother of Jesus’ was also stoned to death by the Jews. With this testimony of Hippolytus there is good reason to assume that James the son of Alphaeus is the same person as James the brother of Jesus.
 
Jerome here believed that the “brothers” of the Lord were Jesus’ cousins, thus amplifying the doctrine of perpetual virginity. Jerome concluded that James “the brother of the Lord”, (Galatians 1:19) is therefore James, son of Alphaeus, one of the Twelve Apostles of Jesus, and the son of Mary Cleophas.

In two small but potentially important works of Hippolytus, On the Twelve Apostles of Christ and On theSeventy Apostles of Christ, he relates the following:

And James the son of Alphaeus, when preaching in Jerusalem was stoned to death by the Jews, and was buried there beside the temple.

James, ‘the brother of Jesus’ was also stoned to death by the Jews. With this testimony of Hippolytus there is good reason to assume that James the son of Alphaeus is the same person as James the brother of Jesus.
Thanks. In any case, I find it to be a bit of a head spinner, trying to get a grasp on all these relationships. 😃
 
The original quotation from post #11 claims that Mary’s sister [adelphē] is the same woman as Mary the wife of Cleophas and the mother of James and Joseph. It claims that it would be unusual to have two biological sisters both named Mary, and therefore adelphē means distant relation. I think there could be other explanations such as Mary’s sister in John 19:25 referring to a different woman than Mary the wife of Cleophas as you are stating as well. I read somewhere that some of the original texts have an ‘and’ between them, but there is some ambiguity.
It seems like we are in agreement here.
Either way, just because a lady named Mary (wife of Clopas/Cleophas) had 2 sons named James and Joseph it doesn’t mean that Mary (Jesus’ mother) could have not possibly had a son Jesus, and other sons/step-sons named James, Joseph, Simon and Judas. These are all very common names used by many people in this New Testament era.
I have no argument with you saying step sons. I have heard about Joseph might have had a wife that passed away prior to Mary which would make these step sons. However, I think it is highly unlikely that the Bible is speaking of 2 different James and Joseph in these 2 verses.

Also, I am in complete disagreement with saying Mary had other biological sons. It just does not fit in scripturally for her to have other sons. Most prominently because of the next 2 verses in John:
John 19:26-27
26 When Jesus saw his mother, and the disciple whom he loved standing near, he said to his mother, “Woman, behold, your son!” 27 Then he said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother!” And from that hour the disciple took her to his own home.[a]

If Jesus had other siblings, by the law, Mary should have gone directly into the care of Jesus’ younger brother. For Jesus’ to give his mother to the care of someone else would have been disobedient to the law.
 
I think this pretty much comes down to which Bible you are looking at:

Luke 1:36 King James Version (KJV)
36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.

Luke 1:36 New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)
36 And now, your **relative **Elizabeth in her old age has also conceived a son; and this is the sixth month for her who was said to be barren.

Luke 1:36New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)
36 And behold, Elizabeth, your relative, has also conceived[a] a son in her old age, and this is the sixth month for her who was called barren;

Luke 1:36International Standard Version (ISV)
36 And listen! Elizabeth, your relative, has herself conceived a son in her old age, this woman who was rumored to be barren is in her sixth month.

Luke 1:36Good News Translation (GNT)
36 Remember your relative Elizabeth. It is said that she cannot have children, but she herself is now six months pregnant, even though she is very old.

I also, went to an online Greek Bible and it translates the word “suggenhs” to mean relative.

So this would lead me to believe we don’t even know what her exact relationship was. Could have been her cousin. However, it is more reasonable to believe it was more likely Mary’s mother’s cousin since the verse does state “in her old age” and we know Mary was a teenager at the time.

Just my 2 cents.
To clarify, I use the Douay Version.

[36] And behold thy cousin Elizabeth, she also hath conceived a son in her old age; and this is the sixth month with her that is called barren…

You make an interesting point, but then why not use this same word for “relative” when referring to the James, etc:

[55] Is not this the carpenter’ s son? Is not his mother called Mary, and his brethren James, and Joseph, and Simon, and Jude…
 
The solution is to view the matter from another angle.It was inside the body of Mary where Jesus was conceived and grew to a baby drawing everything required for it through her organs.How blessed and purest of pure should her body be! Can it be stained with original sin or will it be allowed to be used for the birth of another child or for sexual pleasure or will it be allowed to decay as a normal mortal body ? Never ! In fact this is our very basis of belief in her sinless origin,perpectual virginity and bodly assumption to heaven .So no question at all of any brothers of sisters of Jesus born of Mary,the mother of our God.
 
One thing i have to say is - why has no one in 2000 years ever claimed Jesus blood line if he had brothers and sisters - not one taker in 2000 years - surely people would be coming out all over the place making the claim to Jesus blood line - unlike Mohamed who has decedents everywhere.
 
The solution is to view the matter from another angle.It was inside the body of Mary where Jesus was conceived and grew to a baby drawing everything required for it through her organs.How blessed and purest of pure should her body be! Can it be stained with original sin or will it be allowed to be used for the birth of another child or for sexual pleasure or will it be allowed to decay as a normal mortal body ? Never ! In fact this is our very basis of belief in her sinless origin,perpectual virginity and bodly assumption to heaven .So no question at all of any brothers of sisters of Jesus born of Mary,the mother of our God.
I don’t believe that is the basis for our belief. It was not necessary, as you imply, for Mary to be free from sin, or a perpetual virgin, or assumed to heaven. Rather, she and the Lord saw it good to do these things, and so they were done.
 
One thing i have to say is - why has no one in 2000 years ever claimed Jesus blood line if he had brothers and sisters - not one taker in 2000 years - surely people would be coming out all over the place making the claim to Jesus blood line unlike Mohamed who has decedents everywhere.
In the early centuries there were the Desposynoi, the descendants of Jesus’ ‘brothers’ such as Jude who held positions of authority in Palestinian Jewish Christianity by virtue of being related to Jesus. (Jesus had no children as far as we know, so it was His surviving uncles and aunts and ‘siblings’ (and mother!) that held the ‘distinguished family member’ position. James the Just for example was the first bishop of the Jerusalem church.) We don’t know what happened eventually to these lineages because Jewish Christianity as a whole fell into obscurity as the other sees rose in importance and gentile Christians either ignored them or held them in contempt as ‘Judaizers’ for continuing to practice Jewish law as a matter of custom.

Who knows? Maybe there are still Desposynoi around that we don’t know of. That would be interesting.
 
I have never heard that - hmmm

They would still not be of Jesus blood line as only Mary and Jesus are - so it would not be a true blood line to Christ at least as a Catholic view. Mary as a perpetual virgin discounts his claim to the blood line in our belief.

I guess Mary’s relatives could lay claim - but not much is said about it.
 
I know the “brethren” of Jesus were the sons of Mary the wife of Cleophas, but I am confused by the language saying that Jesus had brothers and sisters, and the reasoning that there were no terms for “cousin,” when Luke 1:36 states that Elizabeth was Mary’s “cousin.” I’m not having a crisis of faith or anything like that, just curious what the answers are to this.
Perpetual Virginity – The Adelphoi of Jesus

Objection 1: The Bible says that Jesus had brothers. Matthew 13:55 says: ‘Is not this the carpenter’s son? Is not his mother called Mary? And are not his brethren James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? And are not all his sisters with us?’"


The key to Matthew 13:55 is understanding the Greek word for “brethren” (adelphoi) and its feminine counterpart (adelphe). If the Greek words used in this passage connote only siblings, then the Catholic dogma of Mary’s perpetual virginity is false.

However, the word adelphoi has a much broader meaning. It may refer to male relatives that one is not a descendant of and that are not descendant from one (such as a blood brother, step-brother, nephew, uncle, cousin, etc.) or non-relatives such as neighbors, fellow workers, co-religionists, and friends.

Because of this broad usage, we can be sure that the 120 “brothers” in Acts 1:15 did not have the same mother. Neither did Lot and his uncle Abraham, who were called “brothers” (Gen. 11:26-28, 29:15).

The reason relatives were called brothers or sisters was because in Hebrew, there was no word for cousin, nephew, or uncle. So the person was referred to as simply a “brother.” Linguistically, this was far easier than calling the person the son of a mother’s sister. Since the New Testament was written in a dialect of Greek that was heavily influenced by the Semitic culture, many of the Hebrew idioms (like “brother” having multiple meanings) intrude into the Greek text. So, the fact that Jesus had adelphoi does not mean that Mary had other children.

Objection 2: But there was a Greek word for cousin, anepsios. If the brothers of the Lord were really his cousins, why wasn’t that word used?"

It is a misconception that Catholics teach that the brothers were actually cousins. In fact, we can’t tell if any of the “brothers” were cousins. All the Church affirms is that they were not children of Mary. They could have been children of Joseph from a prior marriage. But the specific word for cousin (anepsios) probably would not have been used in Matthew 13:55 unless all the “brothers” were cousins. If even one of them was not a cousin, the more general term “adelphoi” covers the situation. Even if all of them were cousins, the term “brother” could still be used by Matthew to appropriately describe them.

These things were taken for granted by the early Christians, who were familiar with the biblical languages and who knew that Mary was a lifelong virgin. In A.D. 380, Helvidius proposed that Mary had other children because of the “brothers” in Matthew 13:55. He was rebutted by Jerome, who was arguably the greatest biblical scholar of the day. The Protestant reformer John Calvin seconded Jerome: “Helvidius has shown himself too ignorant, in saying that Mary had several sons, because mention is made in some passages to the brothers of Christ” [quoted by Bernard Leeming, **Protestants and Our Lady, 9]
. Martin Luther agreed with Calvin that Mary was always a virgin, as did Ulrich Zwingli: “I esteem immensely the Mother of God, the ever chaste, immaculate Virgin Mary” [E. Stakemeier, **De Mariologia et Oecumenismo, K. Balic, ed., 456].
 
Whatever excuse is invented to prove that Jesus did not have brothers or sisters,the matter is still not beyond doubt if one only go by the sciptures.The only solution is to go by the reasoning based on which the church held that she has bodily ascended to heaven.
 
Whatever excuse is invented to prove that Jesus did not have brothers or sisters
you mean did have brothers or sisters?
the matter is still not beyond doubt if one only go by the sciptures.The only solution is to go by the reasoning based on which the church held that she has bodily ascended to heaven.
Mary did not ascend to heaven. She was assumed.
 
What I meant was arguments such as brother mentioned in some places means cousin or relative only,it was a translation error etc.no longer hold water.I have seen that some groups vehemently argue based on the same wordings that it was meant for own brothers and sisters only.So some other line of thinking is necessary to prove the point.Any idea why the church determined that she ascended or was taken to heaven bodily.?
 
What I meant was arguments such as brother mentioned in some places means cousin or relative only,it was a translation error etc.no longer hold water.I have seen that some groups vehemently argue based on the same wordings that it was meant for own brothers and sisters only.So some other line of thinking is necessary to prove the point.Any idea why the church determined that she ascended or was taken to heaven bodily.?
Who says they hold no water? YOU??

So I don’t misunderstand you are you saying you accept or reject the infallible teaching of the Church that Mary was a perpetual virgin?

Which Protestant groups reject this? ALL the founding fathers of Protestantism publicly declared in writing that Mary was a perpetual virgin so who are these weird group you keep referring to?

Also, as another poster already told you Mary did NOT ASCEND into Heaven. Only Christ ascended. Mary was ASSUMED into Heaven. Ascension and Assumption are totally different.
 
There is indeed no term for the word cousin in ancient Aramaic. More importantly, in their spoken language and as such the culture was, where families and relatives were really closely knitted, relatives like cousins or distant cousins were simply just called brothers or sisters of so and so, depending on their sex.

But that is not the only thing for believing that Jesus had no brothers or sister, rather, the tradition that was passed on from the apostles, people who knew Jesus personally. We are confident of this knowledge, that is by tradition, because our Church started from the time of the apostles never to be interrupted until today. We know who and what Jesus was.
There was/is indeed a term for cousin in Aramaic as there is in Hebrew; it’s the fact that “brother” is a very loosely applied term wherein the confusion lies. You can check Michael Sokoloff’s lexicon of Palestinian Aramaic to verify this.
 
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