Jesus came for the Jews not the Gentiles?

[TimothyH]

I don’t see any evidence that Jesus went to gentiles in those areas. Assuming that he ministered to the Jews of the dispersion is more consistent with his regular teaching style.

He did minister to “fringe” Jews. He ministered in Samara, whose people were of Jewish ancestry (so they were Jews) but were considered heretical. But they weren’t gentiles.

But I find no evidence that specifically says that Jesus ever went to gentiles. It was always gentiles coming to him.

David, I respectfully submit the article by Jimmy Akin which addresses this topic and maintains that Jesus went to the Gentiles intentionally.

catholic.com/blog/jimmy-akin/the-feeding-of-the-four-thousand

-Tim-

 

[DavidFilmer]

David, I respectfully submit the article by Jimmy Akin which addresses this topic and maintains that Jesus went to the Gentiles intentionally.

catholic.com/blog/jimmy-akin/the-feeding-of-the-four-thousand

This is a very interesting article. And, far be it from me to dispute Jimmy.

This is actually the first rational attempt I have seen to resolve the five/four thousand crowd-count discrepancy in the miracles of the Loaves and Fishes between the Gospels of Matthew and Mark.

Most Catholics dismiss the discrepancy as merely a human estimate.Nobody conducted a census, and one person might see a bunch of people and say it’s five thousand, while another might see the very same bunch of people but say it’s four. Catholics tend to dismiss the difference, rather than resolve it.

Most Bible-literal protestants say they must have been two different events, but do not attempt to explain WHY Jesus did the same thing twice.

Jimmy presents some really good Biblical exegesis, but I’m sure that even Jimmy would agree that his exegesis is not part of the teaching of the Magesterium of the Church (“yet,” perhaps).

So, to speak more precisely (in a manner with which I believe Jimmy Akin would readily agree), the Catholic Church does not teach that Jesus ever approached and ministered directly to gentiles.

 

[TimothyH]

This is a very interesting article. And, far be it from me to dispute Jimmy.

This is actually the first rational attempt I have seen to resolve the five/four thousand crowd-count discrepancy in the miracles of the Loaves and Fishes between the Gospels of Matthew and Mark.

Most Catholics dismiss the discrepancy as merely a human estimate.Nobody conducted a census, and one person might see a bunch of people and say it’s five thousand, while another might see the very same bunch of people but say it’s four. Catholics tend to dismiss the difference, rather than resolve it.

Most Bible-literal protestants say they must have been two different events, but do not attempt to explain WHY Jesus did the same thing twice.

Jimmy presents some really good Biblical exegesis, but I’m sure that even Jimmy would agree that his exegesis is not part of the teaching of the Magesterium of the Church (“yet,” perhaps).

So, to speak more precisely (in a manner with which I believe Jimmy Akin would readily agree), the Catholic Church does not teach that Jesus ever approached and ministered directly to gentiles.

I do appreciate that you took time to read the article but think you are being a bit stubborn my friend.

In the story of the feeding of the five thousand with twelve baskets left over, five thousand has always been seen as representing the law or the first five books of the Bible and the twelve baskets has always been seen as the twelve tribes. In the story of the feeding of the four thousand with seven baskets left over, four has always been seen as the nations or the four corners of the earth while seven baskets represents the nations being brought to perfection.

Christ feeding four thousand is a statement to his apostles that he was about to bring the gentiles into the covenant family of God and the imminent establishment of the Church. This is a widely understood interpretation and I don’t think “Most Catholics dismiss the discrepancy as merely a human estimate.” I was taught this as a child and remember that the second feeding happened three days after the first.

taylormarshall.com/2015/02/what-is-the-meaning-of-the-12-and-7-baskets-left-over-from-the-feeding-of-5000-and-4000.html

Jeff Cavins teaches the same thing in his Bible studies. I think it is a widely held understanding.

-Tim-

 

[ahs]

I am having difficulty dialoguing with someone who claims that Christianity is based on Paul, not Jesus, and in this sense: He says that Jesus came to and preached to the Jews in a restricted sense while Paul opened up Christianity for the Gentiles later.

No, Paul didn’t open up anything to anyone. Paul was stomping out Christians until Christ called him to be an Apostle. Christ fulfilled the covenant with the Jews AND fulfilled the OT prophesies that God would then bring salvation to ALL people. Christ tasked Peter and Paul and the rest of the Apostles with bringing the Gospel to all nations, all peoples. Christ “opened Christianity for the Gentiles” when He gave Peter the vision of the table cloth…immediately before Peter was sent by God to convert the Roman official and his household. In Christ we are no longer Gentile or Jew, servant or free…we are just Christians.

If your friend wants to parse words and make Paul “the Apostle for the Gentiles” (only), then he will have to also accept that Paul, inspired by the Holy Spirit, got it wrong when Paul wrote that we are no longer “Gentile nor Jew…servant nor free”. He will have to concede that the Holy Spirit was wrong to inspire the authors to record Paul preaching to the Jews, and Peter to the Gentiles. God was wrong to inspire the authors to record Peter as saying, “God made a choice among you, that I should be the one through whom the Gentiles would hear the message of the good news and become believers” or God was wrong to choose to bring the message to the Gentiles. Nonsense.

ETA: This very short blog article fits perfectly here:
Was Peter only the Apostle for the Jews?

 

[eddie_too]

adam and eve were not jews yet God promised to them that He would strike the devil through the offspring of eve.

for the most part, the whole issue is a bit esoteric and I see little of importance in discussing it.

essentially, the jews were God’s method of fulfilling His promise to adam and eve (non-jews).

 

[catholic1seeks]

Thanks to everyone who has responded.

Valuable insights!

 

[DavidFilmer]

I do appreciate that you took time to read the article but think you are being a bit stubborn my friend.
…
Jeff Cavins teaches the same thing in his Bible studies. I think it is a widely held understanding.

Perhaps I just missed it (all these years). But I think we can both agree that the Magesterium of the Catholic Church has never taught that Jesus ever approached and ministered directly to gentiles.

And I think we can both agree, if Akin and Cavins are correct in their exegesis, that this teaching is not plainly evident in Scripture. It requires some scholarship and some individual interpretation to “figure it out.”

 

[MrSnaith]

For further consideration:

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/muller/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20130203_houston-muller_en.htmlbackground.

and

Luke 2:28-33:
[28] He also took him into his arms, and blessed God, and said: [29] Now thou dost dismiss thy servant, O Lord, according to thy word in peace; [30] Because my eyes have seen thy salvation, [31] Which thou hast prepared before the face of all peoples: [32] A light to the revelation of the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel. [33]

Psalm 2:7-8:
[7] The Lord hath said to me: Thou art my son, this day have I begotten thee. [8] Ask of me, and I will give thee the Gentiles for thy inheritance, and the utmost parts of the earth for thy possession.

Psalm 21:28-29:
[28] All the ends of the earth shall remember, and shall be converted to the Lord: And all the kindreds of the Gentiles shall adore in his sight. [29] For the kingdom is the Lord’ s; and he shall have dominion over the nations.

Isaiah 42:1-7:
[1] Behold my servant, I will uphold him: my elect, my soul delighteth in him: I have given my spirit upon him, he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. [2] He shall not cry, nor have respect to person, neither shall his voice be heard abroad. [3] The bruised reed he shall not break, and smoking flax he shall not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. [4] He shall not be sad, nor troublesome, till he set judgment in the earth: and the islands shall wait for his law. [5] Thus saith the Lord God that created the heavens, and stretched them out: that established the earth, and the things that spring out of it: that giveth breath to the people upon it, and spirit to them that tread thereon. [6] I the Lord have called thee in justice, and taken thee by the hand, and preserved thee. And I have given thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles: [7] That thou mightest open the eyes of the blind, and bring forth the prisoner out of prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.

Isaiah 49:6-10:
[6] And he said: It is a small thing that thou shouldst be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to convert the dregs of Israel. Behold, I have given thee to be the light of the Gentiles, that thou mayst be my salvation even to the farthest part of the earth. [7] Thus saith the Lord the redeemer of Israel, his Holy One, to the soul that is despised, to the nation that is abhorred, to the servant of rulers: Kings shall see, and princes shall rise up, and adore for the Lord’ s sake, because he is faithful, and for the Holy One of Israel, who hath chosen thee. [8] Thus saith the Lord: In an acceptable time I have heard thee, and in the day of salvation I have helped thee: and I have preserved thee, and given thee to be a covenant of the people, that thou mightest raise up the earth, and possess the inheritances that were destroyed: [9] That thou mightest say to them that are bound: Come forth: and to them that are in darkness: shew yourselves. They shall feed in the ways, and their pastures shall be in every plain. [10] They shall not hunger, nor thirst, neither shall the heat nor the sun strike them: for he that is merciful to them, shall be their shepherd, and at the fountains of waters he shall give them drink.

Isaiah 66;18-19;
[18] But I know their works, and their thoughts: I come that I may gather them together with all nations and tongues: and they shall come and shall see my glory. [19] And I will set a sign among them, and I will send of them that shall be saved, to the Gentiles into the sea, into Africa, and Lydia them that draw the bow: into Italy, and Greece, to the islands afar off, to them that have not heard of me, and have not seen my glory. And they shall declare my glory to the Gentiles: