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littleone
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How are we to follow Jesus is it in the comtemplative way of putting our minds to the Father? or is it in the actions of the Holy Spirit?
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Tantum_ergo
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Why is it an either-or and not a ‘both-and’?
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water
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I could be “three”. The Holy Spirit is in us and guiding us, and whatever we follow the teaching of Jesus, we do that to glorify the Father. Therefore, we should always come to the Trinity and do that in whichever you want to do.
I use the prayers such as Rosary, other Novena, and other prayers. Sometimes I keep quite and listen. For praying in tongue, I am not comfortable doing that.
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puzzleannie
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the Three Persons of the Trinity do not act independently, when One acts All act, God acts, and they are certainly not in competition. If you are asking which spirituality is better for one individual to adopt–comtemplative or charismatic–there is also no dichotomy or division there. All Christians are called to be contemplative. All Christians are endowed with gifts of the Holy Spirit at baptism, strengthened at confirmation, and the gifts are given to be used.
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littleone
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If this is so then why do all christians not use Galations 5 :22 gifts?
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TOP
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So little belief in them. People will actually lock you up for having these gifts. Tim
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TOP
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Yes , Jesus and some of the Saints have been persecuted. Is this what you meant? Tim
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puzzleannie
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the Isaian gifts are given to all.
as Paul spells out, all are gifted, the charisms come into play as needed, and some are gifted more strongly in one area, some in others. Tongues, by the way, is always counted by Paul as the least of the gifts, and not in any way to be used as judgement on who is and who is not gifted by the Spirit.
Contemplation is of no value without knowledge, wisdom and understanding. Strength has no value without being put to use, such as in sustaining the demands of the contemplative life. The gifts and charisms work together to build up the individual Christian, for the purpose and end of building up the Church.
As to why some Christians do not utilize or even recognize the gifts, why don’t they? Poor catechesis, more often deliberate rejection of the gifts and their call to the Christian vocation.
Paul also reminds us repeatedly none of the gifts and charisms is operative or useful without love.
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water
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Those gifts: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, and self control.
How do you know All Christians do not use it? Are saying that there is no one out there who is holy?
Are you concerning about we all need to use the other gifts such as praying in tongue, etc??
I’ve seen and known people with the charismatic gifts going wrong. I am not saying all, but a few has gone against their own priest. So, what is the point of having this gift if they can’t even be obedient to their own pastor?
Not only that, they asked priest not to spend too long during the homily so that they have time to pray in tongue after Mass.
Those are the reasons why I am not comfortable using praying in tongue although I did it 6 months ago. I am looking for spiritual director who can guide me and help me without doing such things above.
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puzzleannie
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Galations list what are usually called the fruits of the Holy Spirit, the virtues exhibited by those who embrace fully life in Christ and the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Why don’t Christians exhibit them? Your guess is as good as mind. Usually attachement to sin.
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water
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Thanks for correcting that - “the fruits”
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TOP
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Littleone, I might be a little dense, but I don’t see the connection between the threads. Could you please explain this to me? Tim
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littleone
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No! what I mean is that if God allows people to be percecuted then they will. Others will use the same gifts and will be asked ( as I have been), to help the community (say for instance police) without percecution. News papers down south were talking about this person up north with these miracles, People in other towns were talking about the gifts this person used. I was that person, and I’m not dead, persecuted or locked up, (as you mentioned through using these gifts). That’s the connection between this thread and the other I mentioned. That’s what I mean,you don’t allways get locked up.
I might be a little dense, but I don’t see the connection between the threads. Could you please explain this to me? Tim
No your not, but the point is the use of gifts and miracles by some, and being persecuted, and other using the same gifts and not being persecuted. And that it is God who created these gifts and these oportunities because of God’s will.
God bless
littleone
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InLight247
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You are right. It is not an either-or.
Our God likes variety. Look at how many different human races and cultures, sceneries and animals, trees and flowers there are …… So there are different formats of prayer, and different manifestation of the Holy Spirit.
There is no conflict between contemplative and charismatic.
All Christians are called to be contemplative. Also, all Christians are the temple of the Holy Spirit, and are entitled to receive the gifts of the Spirit.
**1 Corinthians 14:5 “I should like it if all of you spoke in tongues…”
Acts 2:17 “It shall come to pass in the last days, says God that I will pour out a portion of my spirit on all mankind; your sons and daughters shall prophesy……”**
Different format of prayer and different manifestation of the Spirit may be emphasized at different stage of our lives; but there is no conflict between contemplative and charismatic. It is not a question of either or.
We are all called to be contemplative, but not all of us could be contemplative. Contemplation is infused, totally from God. Unless we live a generous Gospel life, we will not be able to immerse ourselves in God. If we are not totally immersed in God, we will not receive the infused contemplation.
So is the manifestation of the gift of the Holy Spirit. "It is the one and the same Spirit who produces all these gifts, distributing them to each as he wills. (1 Cor 12:11)
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littleone
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These gifts are definitly there to be used and will be by those who are open to using gifts of the Holy Spirit. Some are inclined that way some the contemplative way then again others who are inclined towards having an ear for all. God less us all.Those gifts: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, and self control.
How do you know All Christians do not use it? Are saying that there is no one out there who is holy?
Are you concerning about we all need to use the other gifts such as praying in tongue, etc??
I’ve seen and known people with the charismatic gifts going wrong. I am not saying all, but a few has gone against their own priest. So, what is the point of having this gift if they can’t even be obedient to their own pastor?
Not only that, they asked priest not to spend too long during the homily so that they have time to pray in tongue after Mass.
Those are the reasons why I am not comfortable using praying in tongue although I did it 6 months ago. I am looking for spiritual director who can guide me and help me without doing such things above.
God bless
littleone
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TOP
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Sorry, I was once locked up for just saying “I wanted to be in heaven” . My boss thought I was suicidal because I said this and called the cops. I was in the middle of painting a truck when 2 cops and a paramedic came in and brought me to the hospital for evaluation. I was locked up. This was 1 of 5 times I went to the hospital for saying what I believe to be true. I think 5 days was the longest I was kept, but the Lord provided ways to help others in there through group therapy. Tim
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water
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I totally agreed with you; however, there are some who do not know how to use the gifts - then the gifts become useless.
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littleone
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Why, could it be that teachers might be unable to teach because they don’t use then or could it be fear of lay people having gifts that don’t suit the relationship the elders are wishing to portray in the church ?
Who knows
God bless
littleone
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water
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I am confused. It was about fruits being mentioned, and you were mentioning about gifts. Anyhow, it is not about suiting the relationship nor being fearful, it is more about being careful when using any of the charismatic gifts - I meant praying in tongue, etc… The church does not say you can’t use it, but the church warn us to be careful as it is said in the Bible.
Here is an example: one nun and young girl, who were part of the organization that organized a Light In Spirit Seminar which I attended. They said they were baptizing the dead. There were two souls appearing to them asking for being baptized.
do you think baptizing the dead is needed?
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