Jesus compared to St. Paul

mrld20 · Oct 1, 2011

So I attend a Catholic bible study at my parish.

Every time we study a passage that has to do with social justice and Jesus (i.e. sermon on the mount

) I get all excited and I go out and apply those principles to my daily life.

I love verses like the Sermon on the Mount or the Parable of the Good Samaritin because they show that no one is beyond God’s love and it shows that even in the darkest of situations God and Jesus’ love is still there for anyone.

I recently got involved in a Catholic Worker House volunteering in my spare time. I love everything about it. I love working with people who are poor, sick etc because it helps me relate to my own struggles with my sexual brokenness… I love serving meals to the poor, I love to see them smile when they have a happy moment, I love to help people in general…

But then when we dwell on St. Paul I get a nauseated feeling. Please note that I am no way questioning Scripture or Church doctrine/teachings on from St. Paul…

It’s just some of Paul’s messages are a little on the negative side… *“Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to use authority over the man: but to be in silence. 13 Adam was first formed; then Eve. 14 And Adam was not seduced; but the woman, being seduced, was in the transgression.” 1 Timothy 2:11-14
*

I have a strong sense of social justice and I agree that the priesthood should remain men only (with celibacy of course)… But I just get a sick feeling when I read a verse that seems so oppressive like that…

I try to like St. Paul but some times his messages just don’t sound too good to me… I do agree with everything that’s in the teachings… But it’s hard to stomach some times… It can seem oppressive…

I’m not trying to start a fight here… I’m just looking for someone to give me some advice on how to integrate Pauline theology into my life

patrick457 · Oct 1, 2011

My advice is: don’t feel too discouraged about that. St. Paul is really a difficult character to stomach; in fact, he sometimes gets accused of having no sense of humor!

I personally think that because someone is a saint and a Biblical author does not automatically mean you have to personally like their style (that does not mean that you no longer have to respect them or recognize the truths in them though), or expect all of them to be ‘palatable’ for one’s tastes. Sainthood does not grant that power.

I mean, some find St. Paul’s writings beautiful; others might find it a little grating. I should know: I actually found Paul’s epistles rather tedious and difficult to read through (I still do to some extent)! In fact, I’m more of a narrative type of person: I can read, say, the Gospels or the Historical books with no difficulty, but I have a hard time plowing through most prophetic books (Ezekiel and Daniel are two exceptions) or even epistles.

asia53 · Oct 1, 2011

I’m afraid, I share your feelings about St Paul. So when our Bible studies coordinator decided to offer I and II Corinthians this session, I was going to pass. My Bible study friends wouldn’t let that happen.

Here I am studying I and II Corinthians written by the dreaded St Paul. I had to find a way to lighten up my attitude about the poor man.

As I read his words, I find his love for the people, the Lord, God, and the Holy Spirit so apparent. So I asked myself, would St Paul have said/written those words about women, if he had an inkling about the negative impact on future generations of women? I have to say-----I don’t think so. Considering his strong, over-the-top personality, he had to be struck blind on the road to Damascus, after which he became a follower of Jesus Christ, and stopped trying to eradicate Christianity. I resolved to give St Paul the benefit of a doubt. I think, St Paul is also a victim of his time.

Considering the love and wisdom, he writes about in I and II Corinthians, I can live with him. He’s never going to be my favorite.

Although, I do think the man is too dang wordy. Oh my gosh!

A lyric from a song popular a few years ago keeps coming to mind: “Say what you mean…”

AntalKalnoky · Oct 1, 2011

Hi mrld! welcome. I used to worry about those seeming put-down of women; always superiority of men. until I learned that was the Culture of the time, even 60 years ago!. Society is still adjusting to Women being equal, in most of the world. So it’s not just the Bible, but society still finally realizing Women are not only equal, but more important, and the key to solution of problems. It is important to note that it was Christ and Ther earliest Church that Focused highest Respect for women: the Blessed Virgin was ALWAYS the Most impressive Woman in the World, 1st century on. The First Christian Paintings were Not of Christ, but of Mary Holding Baby Jesus Prominently, often as a tiny Adult. The meeting place for the Apostles early was at Mary’s home on Ephesus Hill. A new Testament Verse is the First Writing that Women and Men are Equally important.

No woman in 2000 year History has been more Emphasized as The Ideal Woman, in Every difficult sense. In India, Hispanic America’s Mary is The Most Admired, Model Woman. Even in Islam: The Koran has More than The Bible on Mary. Etc., Etc. She IS The Model Woman. :byzsoc: Women are the Most Admired and Respected as Ideal. (Except our Very Sexist Commercial Sales ‘culture’)

Great point, mrld! [SIGN][/SIGN] in your work, attitudes.

AntalKalnoky · Oct 1, 2011

asia53 said:
I’m afraid, I share your feelings about St Paul. So when our Bible studies coordinator decided to offer I and II Corinthians this session, I was going to pass. My Bible study friends wouldn’t let that happen.

Here I am studying I and II Corinthians written by the dreaded St Paul. I had to find a way to lighten up my attitude about the poor man.

As I read his words, I find his love for the people, the Lord, God, and the Holy Spirit so apparent. So I asked myself, would St Paul have said/written those words about women, if he had an inkling about the negative impact on future generations of women? I have to say-----I don’t think so. Considering his strong, over-the-top personality, he had to be struck blind on the road to Damascus, after which he became a follower of Jesus Christ, and stopped trying to eradicate Christianity. I resolved to give St Paul the benefit of a doubt. I think, St Paul is also a victim of his time.

Considering the love and wisdom, he writes about in I and II Corinthians, I can live with him. He’s never going to be my favorite.

Although, I do think the man is too dang wordy. Oh my gosh! A lyric from a song popular a few years ago keeps coming to mind: “Say what you mean…”

Please see Post 4; and Remember Who the most Idolized Woman in World History was, even to Aztecs 500 Years ago. Remember VERY Few Read or knew The Bible; Every one Knew Notre Dame, Ave Maria, etc., etc, before Reading became common.

erine · Oct 1, 2011

A friend of mine who studied scripture for her degree with focus on St. Paul told me this was actually a reference to some women who were gossiping in church.
I see it as a command to listen and be more interior like Mary. Also it’s a concept expressed; men are priests and not women I think in part bc men have a more outward expressed energy than women which is more suited to preaching and so on.

Just to throw in the other pov, I have always lived St. Paul and really relate to the abstract stuff and have a great connection with him. Guess we are all different

Bookcat · Oct 1, 2011

mrld20 · Oct 2, 2011

Some times I get the feeling that St. Paul spoiled the message of Jesus… I know it’s not true… But some times the thought crosses my mind…

Bookcat · Oct 2, 2011

mrld20 said:
Some times I get the feeling that St. Paul spoiled the message of Jesus… I know it’s not true… But some times the thought crosses my mind…

A thought to reject…

Rest assured such would be yes a misunderstanding of Paul.

Please read the above links from Pope Benedict XVI

Bookcat · Oct 2, 2011

Also read:

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2007/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20070214_en.html

Tommm · Mar 6, 2013

I think paul changed what jesus taught to create his owne religion. Don’t forget he was Saul.

Bookcat · Mar 6, 2013

Such would be an incorrect understanding
Old threads are really NOT to be revived (this is from 2011)
Have a splendid day

Tommm · Mar 6, 2013

Bookcat said:
Such would be an incorrect understanding

Old threads are really NOT to be revived (this is from 2011)

Have a splendid day

Sorry: How old of a thread can I post on?

Jesus compared to St. Paul

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