Jesus' crucifixion

[inJESUS]

i personally did not understand yet what happened to Jesus on the cross from the quran:

1-was Jesus put on the cross but did not die?
2- Jesus was neither put on the cross nor died?
3- did Jesus die a natural death?
4- was Jesus taken to God without dying?
5-is Jesus now alive?

i’d like some response about the islamic view of these questions; thx.

 

[katy]

I’m not Muslim, but my Muslim friends have said they believe that Jesus did not actually die. People just thought he did, only he revived later. These folk aren’t exactly theologians, however.

 

[inJESUS]

katy:

I’m not Muslim, but my Muslim friends have said they believe that Jesus did not actually die. People just thought he did, only he revived later. These folk aren’t exactly theologians, however.

so he was crucified but did not die according to them?

thx for your reply…i already heard many versions , so i’d like to read a mainstream muslim response to this…so far no one

 

[Cyber_Knight]

Jesus was not crucified according to Koran.

FACT #4: The Qur’an states that Allah deceived people into believing that Jesus had died on the cross. According to the Qur’an, Jesus was able to convert at least some Jews to Islam. But we know from history that Jesus’ early followers became convinced of his death and resurrection. Hence, the obvious reason that there were no Muslims after Jesus ascended into heaven is that all of Jesus’ followers came to believe that he died on the cross and rose from the dead. And where did they get this idea? According to Islam, the idea that Jesus died on the cross was started by Allah:

That they said (in boast), “We killed Christ Jesus The son of Mary, The Messenger of Allah”—But they killed him not, Nor crucified him, But so it was made To appear to them, And those who differ Therein are full of doubts, With no (certain) knowledge, But only conjecture to follow, For of a surety They killed him not—Nay, Allah raised him up Unto Himself; and Allah Is Exalted in Power, Wise.[14]

Even if we allow that Allah’s only goal was to deceive the people who wanted to kill Jesus, it is clear that the disciples also fell for Allah’s deception. So who is responsible for the Christian belief that Jesus died on the cross? If Islam is correct, God started this idea when he decided to trick Jesus’ enemies into thinking that they had killed Jesus. This leads to even more problems. If the deception of the disciples was unintentional, then we must conclude that God didn’t realize that he was about to start the largest false religion in the world. If it was intentional, then God is in the business of starting false religions. Therefore, the God of Islam is either dreadfully ignorant or maliciously deceptive.

Muhammad’s position also means that Jesus was the greatest failure in the history of the prophets. He spent 33 years preaching (again, he began preaching Islamic theology at birth), yet shortly after his death, the children of Israel were divided into two broad camps. Those who believed his message became Christians, all of whom were guilty of the worst sin imaginable (shirk[15]), while those who rejected his message were guilty of rejecting one of God’s greatest messengers. Thus, whether people believed in Jesus or rejected him, everyone would ultimately be condemned and cast into the hellfire. It’s strange, then, that Muslims consider Jesus to be one of the greatest prophets ever. It seems that he should have been able to win at least one lasting convert to Islam. But he didn’t. Further, a true prophet of Islam should have warned his followers not to turn away from Islam by falling for God’s deception. But Jesus never got that message across. Indeed, millions of people from around the world now refuse to accept Islam because they believe that Jesus died on the cross for their sins, a teaching that goes back to a deceptive God and an incompetent Messiah.

MORE HERE

 

[Cyber_Knight]

inJESUS:

i personally did not understand yet what happened to Jesus on the cross from the quran:

same here

1-was Jesus put on the cross but did not die?

No he wasnt

2- Jesus was neither put on the cross nor died?

Yup.

3- did Jesus die a natural death?

need muslims explanation… as per ahmaddiya sect, Jesus Christ died in India (hi injesus, remember our ‘ghulam’? )

4- was Jesus taken to God without dying?

yes…guess so…

5-is Jesus now alive?

he is in heaven and will be coming again to clear everything one of them is to confirm Muhammad is the messenger of God.

i’d like some response about the islamic view of these questions; thx.

I’m afraid no body interested.

 

[freesoulhope]

He was either on the cross or not on the cross. There are testomonys and none Christian testomonys That say that jesus died on the cross. there for there is reasonable evidence if one studies history, that such a man existed and was crucified. if he rose again, this is a matter of faith, in which if one could bennifit from a lie, one would be expected to refute this testomony of the apostles, because nobody can prove it, even though i believe that he was resurrected. The crucifixsion however, is harder to lie about, becuase there are other testomonies that are not from christian, the jews who refused his divinity agree that he was crucified. yes it is true that one cant rely souly on there testomies. but the religion that was founded by muhammed, simply says that he was not crusified. Who do you believe?

 

[freesoulhope]

if i come along saying that jesus was not crucified and break down the very foundations of why we are called sinners, i have the power and the reasoning to break down the faith of those who dont understand what it means to be born in sin, i can then make my own religion using peoples doubts and lack of understanding.
if i was corages enough and did battle with the very people who advocate Christianity and become a saviour of the people through propaganda and conspiracys saying that we are not really born sinners, then im sure i would obtain for my own plesure a mass of people to follow my leige aslong as i keep a element of the truth the people already love.
People make false religions everyday, muhammad founded his religion after Christ had died and was resurected and raised up to heaven. There for its not the oldest religion and nither does it forfill any religion that came before it, it simply continues an old religion leaving it unforilled and takes away the need for a savior. This leads me to think that it is false. And that jesus in fact was crucified for are sins, he was the perfect sacrfice, thats why we nolonger use animal sacrafices.

 

[Joseph_Alison]

inJESUS:

i personally did not understand yet what happened to Jesus on the cross from the quran:

1-was Jesus put on the cross but did not die?
2- Jesus was neither put on the cross nor died?
3- did Jesus die a natural death?
4- was Jesus taken to God without dying?
5-is Jesus now alive?

i’d like some response about the islamic view of these questions; thx.

Salaam inJESUS;
My own undersanding is #2, #'4 and #5.

Joseph.

 

[Joseph_Alison]

Even if we allow that Allah’s only goal was to deceive the people who wanted to kill Jesus, it is clear that the disciples also fell for Allah’s deception. So who is responsible for the Christian belief that Jesus died on the cross? If Islam is correct, God started this idea when he decided to trick Jesus’ enemies into thinking that they had killed Jesus. This leads to even more problems. If the deception of the disciples was unintentional, then we must conclude that God didn’t realize that he was about to start the largest false religion in the world. If it was intentional, then God is in the business of starting false religions. Therefore, the God of Islam is either dreadfully ignorant or maliciously deceptive.

Muhammad’s position also means that Jesus was the greatest failure in the history of the prophets. He spent 33 years preaching (again, he began preaching Islamic theology at birth), yet shortly after his death, the children of Israel were divided into two broad camps. Those who believed his message became Christians, all of whom were guilty of the worst sin imaginable (shirk[15]), while those who rejected his message were guilty of rejecting one of God’s greatest messengers. Thus, whether people believed in Jesus or rejected him, everyone would ultimately be condemned and cast into the hellfire. It’s strange, then, that Muslims consider Jesus to be one of the greatest prophets ever. It seems that he should have been able to win at least one lasting convert to Islam. But he didn’t. Further, a true prophet of Islam should have warned his followers not to turn away from Islam by falling for God’s deception. But Jesus never got that message across. Indeed, millions of people from around the world now refuse to accept Islam because they believe that Jesus died on the cross for their sins, a teaching that goes back to a deceptive God and an incompetent Messiah.

By the same token, God would be responsible for the murders and sufferings, at the hands of Christians, of Millions of Jews across the ages; they have been accused to have killed Jesus.
What surprises me the most is that without Judas and the Jews, the supposed salvation would have never taken place and yet these people have been called traitors! It looks like they helped the supposed plan of salvation to come true and yet they were persecuted and hated. What if Judas did not supposedly betray Jesus and what if the Jews elders did not condemn Jesus and what if Pontius Pilate did not listen to them? How will the plan of salvation be implemented then? I think that everyone who helped the supposed plan of salvation to come true should be celebrated as a hero. Why not? He helped save the whole humanity from sins!

The reasoning I quoted is flawed, simply because the teachings of Jesus (PBUH were clear that he was a messenger from Allah (SWT). If people took him for what he clearly was not, it is not his responsibility. Christian theology was developed in pagans’ soils, Greece and Rome.
If Jesus was taken as God, it has nothing to do with crucifixion.
If Jesus was taken as son of God, it has nothing to do with crucifixion.
However, the theology that he died for the sins of mankind has been tied to the crucifixion, but again he did not “offer” himself, a “traitor” was needed and Jesus prayed to God to have that cup pass away from him, this is not the saying of someone “offering” himself. Furthermore, Jesus condemned the one who delivered him to Pilate to receive, not the great but, the greater sin. Why someone who is helping the wonderful plan of salvation come true, should be condemned to receive the greater sin? And by who? By the very one who is supposedly “offering” “himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for an odor of a sweet smell” [EPH 5:2]

Salaam
Joseph.

 

[George_Waters]

Joseph_Alison:

By the same token, God would be responsible for the murders and sufferings, at the hands of Christians, of Millions of Jews across the ages; they have been accused to have killed Jesus.
What surprises me the most is that without Judas and the Jews, the supposed salvation would have never taken place and yet these people have been called traitors! It looks like they helped the supposed plan of salvation to come true and yet they were persecuted and hated. What if Judas did not supposedly betray Jesus and what if the Jews elders did not condemn Jesus and what if Pontius Pilate did not listen to them? How will the plan of salvation be implemented then? I think that everyone who helped the supposed plan of salvation to come true should be celebrated as a hero. Why not? He helped save the whole humanity from sins!

The reasoning I quoted is flawed, simply because the teachings of Jesus (PBUH were clear that he was a messenger from Allah (SWT). If people took him for what he clearly was not, it is not his responsibility. Christian theology was developed in pagans’ soils, Greece and Rome.
If Jesus was taken as God, it has nothing to do with crucifixion.
If Jesus was taken as son of God, it has nothing to do with crucifixion.
However, the theology that he died for the sins of mankind has been tied to the crucifixion, but again he did not “offer” himself, a “traitor” was needed and Jesus prayed to God to have that cup pass away from him, this is not the saying of someone “offering” himself. Furthermore, Jesus condemned the one who delivered him to Pilate to receive, not the great but, the greater sin. Why someone who is helping the wonderful plan of salvation come true, should be condemned to receive the greater sin? And by who? By the very one who is supposedly “offering” “himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for an odor of a sweet smell” [EPH 5:2]

Salaam
Joseph.

What I find flawed is that God would decieve and lie to protect His messenger. The whole “deception” logically sounds more like a attempt to fix a problem for Islam than to explain the truth.

 

[inJESUS]

So Jews and Romans did not kill Jesus but they THOUGHT they did? what does this mean? and who did they kill instead?

 

[inJESUS]

the questions Joseph asked are theological ones…we have 2 theological answers here : those who think that Jesus came TO DIE, and those who think Jesus came to preach BUT WAS KILLED…no matter what position you might prefer, the death of Jesus is part of God’s salvation for us.

 

[MugenOne]

InJesus,

From what I was told, Jesus did not die on the cross. What people saw at the Mount of Skull was a mirage. God “took” or spared death to Jesus by replacing Jesus with his own illusion.

MugenOne

 

[freesoulhope]

You believe this?, based on what prophesy?

 

[inJESUS]

MugenOne:

InJesus,

From what I was told, Jesus did not die on the cross. What people saw at the Mount of Skull was a mirage. God “took” or spared death to Jesus by replacing Jesus with his own illusion.

MugenOne

but, was someone killed or a mass illusion of hundreds??

 

[MugenOne]

No one got killed on that Friday afternoon.

inJESUS:

but, was someone killed or a mass illusion of hundreds??

 

[inJESUS]

MugenOne:

No one got killed on that Friday afternoon.

so they believe that indeed it was a mass illusion by Jews, Romans, and Christians!! maybe they crucified the air for example but all thought it is Jesus? great trick by allah…

 

[MugenOne]

Yup, it was a trick of the millennium played by Allah to fool a bunch of us.

inJESUS:

so they believe that indeed it was a mass illusion by Jews, Romans, and Christians!! maybe they crucified the air for example but all thought it is Jesus? great trick by allah…

 

[inJESUS]

MugenOne:

Yup, it was a trick of the millennium played by Allah to fool a bunch of us.

no wonder the quran calls him the biggest deceiver

 

[freesoulhope]

MugenOne:

Yup, it was a trick of the millennium played by Allah to fool a bunch of us.

so you telling me that god tempted us to tell lies by fooling are eyes? are you saying that alla would decieve many just so you can be in the right? For what purpose (“besides the fact that God is not a deciever”), would God decieve millions if he is trying to save the whole world, as in, every human being on this planet? This God you speak of, is not the God of moses and abraham!