Jesus' crucifixion

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freesoulhope:
so you telling me that god tempted us to tell lies by fooling are eyes? are you saying that alla would decieve many just so you can be in the right? For what purpose (“besides the fact that God is not a deciever”), would God decieve millions if he is trying to save the whole world, as in, every human being on this planet? This God you speak of, is not the God of moses and abraham! :mad:
of course he is not God…you can call him allah, mohammad, or strange spirit .
 
the quran is full of threats, curses, insults about disbelievers; the quran tried but failed to adress/refute the teachings of orthodox Christians…but what i find amazing, is that mohammad failed, in 23 years of “revelations”, to say what happened exactly to one of his “exalted” prophets…mohammad said Jesus was not crucified to suit his agenda, thats why he kept the incident vague and open to thousands of interpretations, leading to sects like Ahmadiyya. Didnt allah know what happened exactly to Jesus? if yes, why on earth didnt he give clear account instead of beating round the bush?
Anyway, even the greatest Holywood Director wouldnt be able to depict the absurdity of the crucifixion account in the quran.

the Jews thought they crucified Jesus? yea sure mr. mohammad.
Someone was crucified instead? yea sure fair allah
No one was crucified but Jews, Romans, Christians saw someone dying on the cross? great trick allah, the biggest deceiver .
 
I am indeed saddened by these posts. The mere thought that the Roman Legions would not be capable of carrying out Pontius Pilates’ decree flies in the face of history. I don’t need to use theology. All I need do is rely upon the forces of writen history. Anyone with a modicum of historical knowledge knows that when an order was given to a Roman legion, that order was carried out. When Pontius Pilate ordered Jesus bar Joseph to be crucified, Jesus bar Joseph WAS crucified. Don’t hand me this baloney of a god who engages in deception. By definition God is truth! What kind of god engages in deception? Oh, yeah, let me remember…Zeus, Apollo, Aphrodite, Odin, Thor, Mars, Cerrunos,…ad infinitum and across the world. Pontius Pilate ordered Jesus bar Joseph to be crucified. Jesus bar Joseph WAS crucified. That is historic fact. If it wasn’t there would not be references in this historic record which clearly state it. Muslims can believe what they want and distort history all they want but the truth is out there. You can swallow a camel and gag on a gnat. Jesus Christ died on the cross that Good Friday - the Roman Legions made sure of it.
 
Bro to muslims history , eyewitnesses, manuscripts are irrelevant. Only what mohammad/allah said is the truth 😉 didnt Jesus say how false prophets will deceive many, even the elect? Let them follow false spirits and false deceitful teachings from a false prophet. We convey the good news…if they dont accept, we dust off our sandals and leave it to God. We can only pray for them.
 
I hear you inJesus! I have made post after post relying upon the historical record alone and have yet to have a Muxslim refute that record. What I do know is this…we need look only back less than a hundred years to Neville Chamberlain and Adolph Hitler. Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it. The cartoon issue is the same as “peace in our time”. If it quacks like a duck and floats like a duck, it must be duck. I have my white surcoat with the big red cross ready and I am willing to don it.
 
Cyber Knight:
Jesus was not crucified according to Koran.

FACT #4: The Qur’an states that Allah deceived people into believing that Jesus had died on the cross. According to the Qur’an, Jesus was able to convert at least some Jews to Islam. But we know from history that Jesus’ early followers became convinced of his death and resurrection. Hence, the obvious reason that there were no Muslims after Jesus ascended into heaven is that all of Jesus’ followers came to believe that he died on the cross and rose from the dead. And where did they get this idea? According to Islam, the idea that Jesus died on the cross was started by Allah:

That they said (in boast), “We killed Christ Jesus The son of Mary, The Messenger of Allah”—But they killed him not, Nor crucified him, But so it was made To appear to them, And those who differ Therein are full of doubts, With no (certain) knowledge, But only conjecture to follow, For of a surety They killed him not—Nay, Allah raised him up Unto Himself; and Allah Is Exalted in Power, Wise.[14]

Even if we allow that Allah’s only goal was to deceive the people who wanted to kill Jesus, it is clear that the disciples also fell for Allah’s deception. So who is responsible for the Christian belief that Jesus died on the cross? If Islam is correct, God started this idea when he decided to trick Jesus’ enemies into thinking that they had killed Jesus. This leads to even more problems. If the deception of the disciples was unintentional, then we must conclude that God didn’t realize that he was about to start the largest false religion in the world. If it was intentional, then God is in the business of starting false religions. Therefore, the God of Islam is either dreadfully ignorant or maliciously deceptive.

Muhammad’s position also means that Jesus was the greatest failure in the history of the prophets. He spent 33 years preaching (again, he began preaching Islamic theology at birth), yet shortly after his death, the children of Israel were divided into two broad camps. Those who believed his message became Christians, all of whom were guilty of the worst sin imaginable (shirk[15]), while those who rejected his message were guilty of rejecting one of God’s greatest messengers. Thus, whether people believed in Jesus or rejected him, everyone would ultimately be condemned and cast into the hellfire. It’s strange, then, that Muslims consider Jesus to be one of the greatest prophets ever. It seems that he should have been able to win at least one lasting convert to Islam. But he didn’t. Further, a true prophet of Islam should have warned his followers not to turn away from Islam by falling for God’s deception. But Jesus never got that message across. Indeed, millions of people from around the world now refuse to accept Islam because they believe that Jesus died on the cross for their sins, a teaching that goes back to a deceptive God and an incompetent Messiah.

MORE HERE
 
I did’t do this reply quite right, but my response to the quote about Allah deceiving people, into believing something that wasn’t, I don’t get it, I didn’t know God was a deceiving God when needed, expecially when Jesus our Lord told us that He is the Truth the Life and the Way. MMMMMMMM and then more MMMMMMMM
 
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Giovanni:
I did’t do this reply quite right, but my response to the quote about Allah deceiving people, into believing something that wasn’t, I don’t get it, I didn’t know God was a deceiving God when needed, expecially when Jesus our Lord told us that He is the Truth the Life and the Way. MMMMMMMM and then more MMMMMMMM
Its all about Muhammad (failure) understanding of trinity so that he created such a lousy allah deceiving people. :o
 
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MugenOne:
Yup, it was a trick of the millennium played by Allah to fool a bunch of us.
So Allah, chose Mary to give birth to Jesus (one of Islams greatest prophets) because of her purity and faith yet deceived her as well? If He would do that than how can you be sure Allah didn’t deceive Mohammed as well? I would guess when your god lies to your own people it is pretty hard to know what to believe.
 
when the illogical sounds reasonble.

Thats how satan has conquered Gods people.

He speads wikidness and evil.

Hes is the most decietfull.

They call him the king of lies.

Yet many believe him.

They see innocents in his eyes.

because its not god who they are seeking.

They are looking for sweets and they are looking for cakes.

even when its rotting there teeth, they praise its wonderful taste.

There knowledge is weak and badly misplaced.

lets prey they escape a life of disgrace.

The devil doesnt care who he destroys.

It could be a man, it could be a boy.

He sucks there minds dry, and leave only a void.

I say that he’s real! but thay call me paranoid.

Do they care? when they make there choice.

They call me sick, they call me insain.

yet it is they, who will beg for mercy on the lords day.

I warn them, i say, dont look at satans buety, look away, look away!.

but their “hearts” have turned to stone from the meduesers display.

Oh lord, free us from the worlds opressive chains

That tangle us in sin and leads us astray.

lets prey for those who have lost their way.

so the son of perdition is cast away.

God bless! :cool:
 
George Waters:
So Allah, chose Mary to give birth to Jesus (one of Islams greatest prophets) because of her purity and faith yet deceived her as well? If He would do that than how can you be sure Allah didn’t deceive Mohammed as well? I would guess when your god lies to your own people it is pretty hard to know what to believe.
Jesus’ blessings to all,
thats exactly the point; allah deceived millions ; and with the same muslim logic, allah allowed that his Bible be corrupt but the quran no…so muslims are accusing allah of being a deciever ( the quran says so) and of being not omnipotent ( coz he was not able to prevent the Bible from being corrupted), of being a discriminator coz he preserves only the quran and not the OT and NT, and to be a dictator who loves to see his people in hell ( coz by allowing the corrupt Bible, billions are going to hell)…now sincerly, these attributes belong to who?

history is mohammads ennemy…the crucifixion is a historical fact written by Jews and Romans…the Dead Sea Scrolls exposed mohammads lie that the Bible is corrupt…only these 2 lies prove what kinda person he was…i have yet to see a muslim’s response to these 2, especially the OT truthfulness.
 
InJesus et al,

You guys have to understand that Islamic history only starts from the time of Mohammed to the present. What happened before that is not important. I think that explains why we have problems arguing with the Muslims.

Yes, Muslims don’t believe our Lord was crucified on the cross. According to them, the man on the cross was just a hologram or illusion of Jesus.

MugenOne
 
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MugenOne:
InJesus et al,

You guys have to understand that Islamic history only starts from the time of Mohammed to the present. What happened before that is not important. I think that explains why we have problems arguing with the Muslims.

Yes, Muslims don’t believe our Lord was crucified on the cross. According to them, the man on the cross was just a hologram or illusion of Jesus.

MugenOne
ironically, i was thinking about Mel Gibson’s Passion of Christ…the Jews’ reaction was : we did not torture him that much…no one raised his voice and said : hey we did not crucify him!! ironically it is THE JEWS who should bring a proof that they did not crucify him in order to bash Christianity, yet they haven’t done it for 2006 years…on the contrary, Jews are converting.

Can you just imagine what a pathetic trick by allah the deceiver? but we must admit, allah indeed deceived, not us but his followers…our God does not deceive.
 
One day, all Muslims will meet Jesus. Let them argue this point with him; I know who’s going to win!

God Bless
 
Woooooooooooooooooooooow dude :eek: I hope they convert, in a peacfull manner.
 
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inJESUS:
ironically, i was thinking about Mel Gibson’s Passion of Christ…the Jews’ reaction was : we did not torture him that much…no one raised his voice and said : hey we did not crucify him!! ironically it is THE JEWS who should bring a proof that they did not crucify him in order to bash Christianity, yet they haven’t done it for 2006 years…on the contrary, Jews are converting.

Can you just imagine what a pathetic trick by allah the deceiver? but we must admit, allah indeed deceived, not us but his followers…our God does not deceive.
Mr. inJESUS,
You said “Jews are converting”, well, on the other hand:

Rome’s Envoy to Saudi Arabia Converts to Islam
by Luke Baker, CNN, November 26 2001 CE

ROME (Reuters) – Italy’s ambassador to Saudi Arabia has converted to Islam, the second time in seven years that an envoy of Rome to the land of Mecca has adopted its religion.

Torquato Cardilli, a career diplomat from overwhelmingly Roman Catholic Italy, revealed his decision to Saudi newspapers Saturday, his 59th birthday. Italian diplomatic sources confirmed the announcement Monday.

His official conversion was made on the eve of the Islamic holy fasting month of Ramadan, which began on Nov. 16 in Saudi Arabia. Cardilli himself could not be reached for comment but an employee at his embassy in Riyadh confirmed the reports.

The Saudi embassy in Rome said it planned a statement later. An embassy spokeswoman said there was no record of any Saudi ambassador to Italy ever converting to Catholicism.

Italy’s Foreign Ministry had no comment.

The conversion of Cardilli – who is married with two children – follows the move to Islam made by Mario Scialoja, Italian ambassador to the Arab kingdom in 1994-95, who has since left the foreign service and is head of Italy’s Muslim League.

Scialoja’s decision came as a shock, made while he was Rome’s permanent representative to the United Nations in New York and long before he was posted to Riyadh.

Cardilli’s change of faith follows years of study of Islam. A graduate in oriental culture and languages from the University of Naples, Cardilli has spent much of his 33-year diplomatic career in the Muslim world.

Following postings in Sudan, Syria, Iraq and Libya, he took over the embassy in Riyadh in October last year. Cardilli has also served as ambassador to Albania and Tanzania.

His personal move comes at a sensitive time, with Italy a member of the U.S.-led coalition fighting the hard-line Islamic Taliban movement in Afghanistan and barely two months after Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi offended the Muslim world by saying Western Christian civilization was superior to Islam.

Corriere della Sera newspaper said Cardilli had been recalled to Rome “for consultations.”

Some 3,000 to 5,000 Italians have converted to Islam from Catholicism in recent years, according to figures from the Union of Islamic Organizations and Communities.

A spokesman for the Italy-based group said it welcomed Cardilli’s entry into the Muslim community, saying of his conversion: “The ways of the Lord are infinite.”
 
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Justice2006:
Mr. inJESUS,
You said “Jews are converting”, well, on the other hand:

Rome’s Envoy to Saudi Arabia Converts to Islam
by Luke Baker, CNN, November 26 2001 CE

ROME (Reuters) – Italy’s ambassador to Saudi Arabia has converted to Islam, the second time in seven years that an envoy of Rome to the land of Mecca has adopted its religion.

Torquato Cardilli, a career diplomat from overwhelmingly Roman Catholic Italy, revealed his decision to Saudi newspapers Saturday, his 59th birthday. Italian diplomatic sources confirmed the announcement Monday.

His official conversion was made on the eve of the Islamic holy fasting month of Ramadan, which began on Nov. 16 in Saudi Arabia. Cardilli himself could not be reached for comment but an employee at his embassy in Riyadh confirmed the reports.

The Saudi embassy in Rome said it planned a statement later. An embassy spokeswoman said there was no record of any Saudi ambassador to Italy ever converting to Catholicism.

Italy’s Foreign Ministry had no comment.

The conversion of Cardilli – who is married with two children – follows the move to Islam made by Mario Scialoja, Italian ambassador to the Arab kingdom in 1994-95, who has since left the foreign service and is head of Italy’s Muslim League.

Scialoja’s decision came as a shock, made while he was Rome’s permanent representative to the United Nations in New York and long before he was posted to Riyadh.

Cardilli’s change of faith follows years of study of Islam. A graduate in oriental culture and languages from the University of Naples, Cardilli has spent much of his 33-year diplomatic career in the Muslim world.

Following postings in Sudan, Syria, Iraq and Libya, he took over the embassy in Riyadh in October last year. Cardilli has also served as ambassador to Albania and Tanzania.

His personal move comes at a sensitive time, with Italy a member of the U.S.-led coalition fighting the hard-line Islamic Taliban movement in Afghanistan and barely two months after Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi offended the Muslim world by saying Western Christian civilization was superior to Islam.

Corriere della Sera newspaper said Cardilli had been recalled to Rome “for consultations.”

Some 3,000 to 5,000 Italians have converted to Islam from Catholicism in recent years, according to figures from the Union of Islamic Organizations and Communities.

A spokesman for the Italy-based group said it welcomed Cardilli’s entry into the Muslim community, saying of his conversion: “The ways of the Lord are infinite.”
And this proves what? If an Italian ambassador jumped off a bridge… :rolleyes:
 
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freesoulhope:
so you telling me that god tempted us to tell lies by fooling are eyes? are you saying that alla would decieve many just so you can be in the right? For what purpose (“besides the fact that God is not a deciever”), would God decieve millions if he is trying to save the whole world, as in, every human being on this planet? This God you speak of, is not the God of moses and abraham! :mad:
Exactly, this is a false god who only existed in the imagination of the man who created him to set himself up as a prophet, Mohammed! Haven’t you noticed how everything that this so-called “god” does is inefficient?

Vickie
 
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Sanning:
One day, all Muslims will meet Jesus. Let them argue this point with him; I know who’s going to win!

God Bless
we all know about this, but its not a matter of winning in heaven but on earth as well…no one gives the peace that Jesus gives …
 
Shalom Justice 😃 , is that all you came with to divert any attention from allah’s trick of the millenium? would you like me to give you a dozen of sites by ex-muslims now Christians? surely not…so better respond to our claims, don’t you think? 🙂

Freesoulhope, nice poem 👍
 
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