I do get the idea you are communicating but this explanation is only good for a christian. …
Non Christians at least accept Jesus as a man; it’s a common starting point. I also think it important to avoid non-intelligence based analogies when describing the thought processes of a person. eg: Water, etc. appeals more to non-God Buddhist.
I belive that the trinity is mystery and beyond human understanding. As i always say, we
havent discovered … even 1% of the universe … havent discovered much about our own brains …
These things you bring up, can be used to reinforce what I am talking about; if our own experience can see these things in just man who is ignorant – what is the problem with them in God who is greater?
I think people know what it is to be of “two minds” from their own experience and most have seen television shows where the human brain is severed at the hemispherical joining point – and how the left half of the body can then have a distinct opinion than the right half. People who understand these things (eg: educated people) take the
plausibility to heart even if not totally understood;
“All the pain is this world” was just a figure… way beyond what any humans could endure…
OK, but he
did die… so to the non-believer it isn’t always going to be obvious.
Time never stops, so it dosent matter … day and night here. …
Here “AS” according to me is used to strike similarity. Say: As you would take a flight to Rome to reach there in 1 days and 1 nights, i would take a train to reach Beijing in 1 days and 1 nights. …
I don’t see that, because:
Jonas is made out to have spent this time period in the belly (Coils) – which happens to be the same word as is typically used of the
womb of a woman. eg: a pregnant woman – and Jonas is in a “pregnant” fish where he is to be “formed” by God just as a child is formed in the womb of a woman.
Going also to Genesis 1, the creation account of days – The first day is light, the second day is the waters and abyss being cut open – the Third day brings forth life ON that day. The earth (clay/mud of Adam) and all plant life came into being on that day – so the very first fruits are on the third day.
If it were only a matter of days and nights, and no context with what happened to Jonas inside the coils of the fish – I wouldn’t argue with you. But the destination (sheol the place of the dead) is the same for both Jesus and Jonas — not a
different location. St. Peter, too, when talking about Jesus’ descent references those who had disobeyed as far back as the
flood — again reinforcing the notion of water, and sheol/tartarus, the abyss/pit and its connection to the womb.
A womb (grave) for three whole days is what is predicated of Jonas.
But Jesus was not dead on the first day; He was the light of the world; Perhaps you could count the Eucharist he broke; though that is sacramental. His passion is more in line with the story of Genesis than with Jonas based on the events of the days.
In order to accept your view, fully, I need to say that Jesus was in the womb on the first day – OR that Jonas was not; and if you mean “Son of Man” (who dies because of Adam?) is the same as being dead, or in the fish, then he would be dead any time he is called “son of Man.” — Yet, the son of Man is
seen in heaven after the resurrection; – why the hokey-pokey?
He didn’t die again after the resurrection, did he?
sigh
Jonas is a prophet – and I think the real emphasis is what Jonas was speaking about
while in the fish. There is one other allusion that I don’t know what to make of, and that is the enlightenment of the crew on the day the fish eats Jonas. During that time, Jonas was in the belly of the ship – asleep. As Jesus said of lazarus, and Jairus? daughter – they have fallen asleep.
Again, Jonas
spent three days and nights, this time is gone – it implies over and done with to me – but Jesus rose
ON the third day; that is he rose
before Jonas did in the order of days; this I think points to Jesus being the resurrection rather than merely being resurrected. It also points to the gospel and epistle writers who wrote in this fashion; not emphasizing the full time of Jonas’ journey.
I don’t see a need to limit Son of man to these three physical days, for Jesus said “AS” Jonas, not “carbon copying” Jonas – for Jonas was copying what was to come, not the other way around. Was Jonas a perfect representation?
What I see, is that the meaning of womb, creation, death, and birth and
especially the temple which are the themes of Jonas’ prophecy are all so very intertwined logically with what Jesus came to do; and are thus the real point to me.
There is probably quite a bit more I can show… Jesus being cut open, the “Coils” of Jesus (Some translate the belly), bringing living water – same abysmal (deep) themes.
It isn’t that I don’t see a correlation between son of man (a Child!) and the events being spoken of, but I am uncomfortable with restricting the meaning to those days.
I see the cross like the death of the sperm and egg which are in a human conception, eg the one cuts open the other – this mud (slip/water/and clay) which man is. The moment of despairing is like unto the moment where a man gives up control of this substance that
was in his body up and until that time – planting it in a womb; a moment of ecstasy, consummation, and death – for what the father once kept alive by his spirit, his soul animating it while in his own body, is separated from that father; His soul no longer animating it, it has died and (God willing) it will be formed into a new body with a new spirit. These are the profound ideas I see in scripture.
Your ideas were enlightening but as i said earlier, your ideas could only be understood by christians strong in faith. The same explanation to few other christians might leave them confused and astray and the same explanation to non christians would mean. making a joke of ourselves.
And I am speaking to a Catholic, yes/no? A conversation isn’t a dictation, either.
Your clarifications are sure to help those who need it, on a case by case basis…
And don’t forget, the cross is a scandal to non-Christians anyway.
Peace,
–Andrew.
.