Jesus descended to hell?

[Cashue]

And why did Jesus tell the thief that he would join him in paradise on that day if he was to be ministering to the souls in Hell according to Peter? I never understood this

When Jesus said, you will be with me today in paradise he meant that he (the theif) would be with him while he (Jesus) preached in hell to the demons. This would feel like paradise to the thief because during Jesus 3 day stay in hell the flames went out and it was no longer a place of eternal torment.

Also hell is defined as “where God is not” so since Jesus is god, hell stopped being hell for those three days and the thief got to listen in paradise (that is hell without the flames).

Cashue

 

[amgen]

This will help:

This will help:newadvent.org/cathen/07207a.htm

 

[PJM]

=sckcd;5692608]I am reading “Outlines of the Catholic Church” which I just got tonight and have a question. What’s this about Jesus descending into hell?? Not that I am an expert, but this is news to me. Why did He go there? Where does it say this? I am assuming He did this since He paid for the sins of the world, is that right?

Doctrine of the Catholic Church

**CCC 633 "**Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, “hell” - Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek - because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God. Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the Redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the parable of the poor man Lazarus who was received into “Abraham’s bosom”: “It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Savior in Abraham’s bosom, whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell.” Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him."

**CCC 634 **“The gospel was preached even to the dead.” The descent into hell brings the Gospel message of salvation to complete fulfillment. This is the last phase of Jesus’ messianic mission, a phase which is condensed in time but vast in its real significance: the spread of Christ’s redemptive work to all men of all times and all places, for all who are saved have been made sharers in the redemption "

Love and prayers.

 

[AnneLee]

Before Christ opened up heaven for us, all the righteous dead people went to a place or state of being that the Hebrews called Sheol. It is part of hell, but it is different and separated from the hell of the damned where unrepentant sinners suffer eternally. In this place where the Hebrews called Sheol or Abraham’s Bosom (or Limbo in our Latin tradition), the righteous were in natural paradise and at the same time endured purgation to cleanse venial sin and stain of repented grave sin to prepare for reception into heaven. The reason why the righteous were not yet permitted into Heaven was because their sins were not yet fully paid or expiated by Christ’s sacrifice on the cross. When Christ died on the cross he paid for all the sins of past, present, and future. So, he went down to the part of hell where the righteous Old Testament Saints were waiting for him. He preached to them about the fact of his divinity, Sonship of God, and what he did here on earth for them and others. Then he resurrected in his body to teach his apostles and then ascended into heaven and opened it up for all the righteous Old Testament Saints to come in as well as for the future Christian Saints. But, right now, anyone who dies in faith goes to heaven through purgatory, they no longer have to go to hell to wait, since Jesus broke the chains of death. Then at the Second Coming of Christ, all the Saints in heaven will resurrect in their bodies. Their bodies will be perfect, incorruptible, holy, and glorified and will be ascended into heaven just like Jesus and Mary was. The souls of the damned will also be resurrected in their bodies which will be imperfect, corruptible, unholy, and undignified and will suffer in hell for all eternity. They will wish they had never existed, but the amount of suffering will vary depending on the gravity of their sins. Likewise, in heaven the amount of pleasure of the Saints will vary depending on the amount of their practice of virtue. But, even the lowest in heaven will be content, happy, loved, and feel like a king in a paradise island and pampered like a royal baby.

I find it difficult to believe our loving God condemns even the most evil person - Hitler, for example - to hell for all eternity. Would our loving God not ask “Do you now understand the evil of your ways?” "Do you now understand the meaning behind Love thy neighbor as thy self?’ Then, offer the evil person a way to atone for their sins even after death (although it is beyond my understanding to know how this would be accomplished). Please excuse any errors as I am unable to download eSpell.

Yours in Christ, Anne Lee

 

[NotWorthy]

I find it difficult to believe our loving God condemns even the most evil person - Hitler, for example - to hell for all eternity. Would our loving God not ask “Do you now understand the evil of your ways?” "Do you now understand the meaning behind Love thy neighbor as thy self?’ Then, offer the evil person a way to atone for their sins even after death (although it is beyond my understanding to know how this would be accomplished). Please excuse any errors as I am unable to download eSpell.

Yours in Christ, Anne Lee

So, does our Loving God lie to us? Jesus pretty much said that the evil ones will be cast into hell for eternity.

 

[AnneLee]

So, does our Loving God lie to us? Jesus pretty much said that the evil ones will be cast into hell for eternity.

Was the Bible not written by men who had not yet experienced death? Jesus’ message was not written by Him but by fallible humans. I remain with my Loving God and my beliefs in His love for His creations - those who fail and those who don’t - in human measurements. No disrespect for your beliefs intended.

Yours in Christ, Anne

It was Grace that taught my heart to fear;
And Grace my fears relieved.

 

[sckcd]

God gave them a lifetime of second chances to repent of evil.

 

[NoWings]

There’s also the wiki article to read over.

Harrowing of Hell.

 

[NotWorthy]

Was the Bible not written by men who had not yet experienced death? Jesus’ message was not written by Him but by fallible humans. I remain with my Loving God and my beliefs in His love for His creations - those who fail and those who don’t - in human measurements. No disrespect for your beliefs intended.

Yours in Christ, Anne

It was Grace that taught my heart to fear;
And Grace my fears relieved.

I simply thought the Holy Spirit was guiding the authors of the Gospels, in this instance, to report accurately what Jesus said. If you can’t believe they did this, then the Bible is little more than a paper weight.

And no, I don’t see or suspect any disrespect. This is an opinion forum. We should be free to express ours.

 

[KyivAndrew]

I am reading “Outlines of the Catholic Church” which I just got tonight and have a question. What’s this about Jesus descending into hell?? Not that I am an expert, but this is news to me. Why did He go there? Where does it say this? I am assuming He did this since He paid for the sins of the world, is that right?

Do you want to read some of the speculations and theological arguments among Catholics as to what Jesus Descending into Hell meant - the orthodox and not-so orthodox.

Read:firstthings.com/article/2008/10/balthasar-hell-and-heresy-an-exchange-38
excerpted below:

It is a question asked reluctantly; however, the doctrine in question is by no means marginal to Christian faith: The mystery of Holy Saturday stands with Good Friday and Easter Sunday at the center of Christ’s redemptive work. What one believes of Christ’s descent into hell necessarily affects what one believes about Christ and salvation through him. The contrast between Balthasar’s theology of Holy Saturday and the traditional Catholic doctrine confronts us with the grave but necessary question whether the work of a theologian so reputably Catholic is in fact compatible with the Catholic faith.

Traditionally, Christ’s descent has been seen as the beginning of the manifestation of his triumph over death and the first application of the fruits of redemption. Gloriously descending to the souls of the holy men and women who had died before him, Christ bestowed on them the glory of heaven and the fullness of freedom. He did not suffer in hell; rather, in virtue of his redemptive death on the cross, he opened to the holy souls the gates of heaven that had been closed due to sin. Notable for its ancient origin and the unusual consistency of its profession, this doctrine of a triumphal descent is part of the heritage of all Christians. It was held universally in both Christian East and West until the Protestant Reformation; the Catholic Church and the Orthodox have continued to profess it without interruption.

Balthasar argues, however, that this doctrine does not do justice to the depths to which Christ went for man’s redemption or, consequently, to his love. Rather, Christ must have suffered after death the full force of what would have awaited sinful mankind without a redeemer: complete rejection by the Father without hope of mercy or reconciliation. By descending into this utter abandonment, Christ bore the punishment humanity deserved, thereby manifesting the extreme extent of God’s love. Balthasar agrees that Christ’s descent should be called glorious, but in the sense that Christ’s crucifixion, rather than his resurrection, is said to be his glory. Balthasar thus retains the form of the profession of faith but with a content other than the traditional one of his ecclesial community. Like the Catholic Church, Balthasar professes Christ descended into hell, but he means something radically different.

Also, apart from the link at the top of the above quote for the full article, the follow up article is :
firstthings.com/article/2009/02/003-more-on-balthasar-hell-and-heresy-39

There is also an article in the theological journal Pro Ecclesia “Is There a Doctrine of the Descent into Hell?" (Summer 2008) written by Duke Professor Griffiths. I haven’t been able to see the last online but the above 2 are.

Suffice it to say, I follow the Church’s Orthodox position but am posting to show some theologian’s views and what is thought. God Bless, Andrew

 

[humble_maid]

Was the Bible not written by men who had not yet experienced death? Jesus’ message was not written by Him but by fallible humans. I remain with my Loving God and my beliefs in His love for His creations - those who fail and those who don’t - in human measurements. No disrespect for your beliefs intended.

Yours in Christ, Anne

It was Grace that taught my heart to fear;
And Grace my fears relieved.

Hello AnneLee I can observe that you love God who is both Mercy and Love. However, I would like to kindly ask you to reflect on these questions. . Did not Jesus entrust His apostles with evangelizing both jews and gentiles? Did He not expect them to have written down these accounts? So if you trust Jesus, should you not trust his successors whom He has appointed?

I see that you are catholic; perhaps it is difficult to envision eternal punishment but it will be God(Jesus) who acts as judge so trust in His infinite Mercy.

In the end it is the individual’s decision to accept Jesus and be one with Him and the Father, or to turn his face away from God.
God Bless

 

[AnneLee]

Hello AnneLee I can observe that you love God who is both Mercy and Love. However, I would like to kindly ask you to reflect on these questions. . Did not Jesus entrust His apostles with evangelizing both jews and gentiles? Did He not expect them to have written down these accounts? So if you trust Jesus, should you not trust his successors whom He has appointed?

I see that you are catholic; perhaps it is difficult to envision eternal punishment but it will be God(Jesus) who acts as judge so trust in His infinite Mercy.

In the end it is the individual’s decision to accept Jesus and be one with Him and the Father, or to turn his face away from God.
God Bless

Are you suggesting I have turned my face away from God? I have been so disappointed by the postings I have read on these Forums. I have never known Catholics to be so narrow-minded, judgemental, cruel and, simply, unthinking as I have found on this Forum. Disappointment does not begin to express my disbelief and sorrow. I shared some of these postings with my current Parish Priest and he feels many people here suffer from overinflated egos and a lack of humilty. I thought these Forums would be a place for open discussion. Instead, I found you better agree or you will be attacked. One woman called me evil because I practice yoga as a means of regaining the ability to walk after brain surgery. Even when I assured her I didn’t worship pagan god but simply followed the physicial poses and stretches given by my Instructors she continued to harrass me with private messages.

 

[JanetF]

Are you suggesting I have turned my face away from God? I have been so disappointed by the postings I have read on these Forums. I have never known Catholics to be so narrow-minded, judgemental, cruel and, simply, unthinking as I have found on this Forum. Disappointment does not begin to express my disbelief and sorrow. I shared some of these postings with my current Parish Priest and he feels many people here suffer from overinflated egos and a lack of humilty. I thought these Forums would be a place for open discussion. Instead, I found you better agree or you will be attacked. One woman called me evil because I practice yoga as a means of regaining the ability to walk after brain surgery. Even when I assured her I didn’t worship pagan god but simply followed the physicial poses and stretches given by my Instructors she continued to harrass me with private messages.

AnneLee, I can’t speak for humble maid, but I took that statement in her post as being a statement directed toward the evil doers previously mentioned in other posts, i.e., Hitler. Hell is a state of being of the soul…when a person turns away from God, which obviously Hitler did up until the very end (since he committed suicide)…I think his soul is in eternal state of not being connected with God.

I don’t think that the catholics who post here are closed-minded. In this particular part of the forum the apolgetics are doing the work that they are called to do, explaining the faith as the Church teaches it.

The Bible was written by fallible men under the protection of the Holy Spirit whose protection makes it impossible to teach anything other than truth

And, lastly, Yoga positions??? Okay, so maybe some people are small-minded, but please don’t generalize about all catholics on these forums. I’ve learned so much here in the past 2 years, it has enriched my life tremendously. I’m a cradle catholic and there was so much I didn’t know about my faith that I am slowly but surely learning and I love it.

 

[fultonfish]

It is very difficult to make adequate translations that cut across non-comparable languages and non-comparable cultures and non-cultural time periods.

A better translation / understanding of “hell” in this specific context, might be “the bosom of Abraham”, where everyone, who died before Jesus the Messiah came here, died and was waiting for the gates of Heaven to be opened.

 

[NotWorthy]

Are you suggesting I have turned my face away from God? I have been so disappointed by the postings I have read on these Forums. I have never known Catholics to be so narrow-minded, judgemental, cruel and, simply, unthinking as I have found on this Forum. Disappointment does not begin to express my disbelief and sorrow. I shared some of these postings with my current Parish Priest and he feels many people here suffer from overinflated egos and a lack of humilty. I thought these Forums would be a place for open discussion. Instead, I found you better agree or you will be attacked.

As previously stated by another poster, you weren’t being accused of turning your face from God. Hell is the punishment for those who turn their face from God, which is the context of the original post.

But, let me ask you a quick question. What did your parish pastor think about your thoughts on Hell?

 

[Mailman]

It is very difficult to make adequate translations that cut across non-comparable languages and non-comparable cultures and non-cultural time periods.

A better translation / understanding of “hell” in this specific context, might be “the bosom of Abraham”, where everyone, who died before Jesus the Messiah came here, died and was waiting for the gates of Heaven to be opened.

The dictionary defines “bosom” as: The breast of a person; the security and intimacy of or like that of being hugged to someone’s bosom; an intimate relationship.

Being in “Abraham’s bosom” simply means having an intimate relationship with him. So, when Jesus said that Lazarus “was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom,” He meant Lazarus was taken into an intimate relationship with Abraham.

Lazarus is pictured in Christ’s parable as a person, perhaps even a Gentile, who received salvation. When a Gentile is converted and become Christ’s, Paul says: “And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed [children], and heirs according to the promise” (Gal. 3:29). Through Christ, Gentiles become the children of Abraham. Through faith we all become “the children of Abraham” (Gal. 3:7). That is an intimate relationship with Abraham. That is being taken into Abraham’s bosom.

Notice these Scriptures where the word “bosom” is used.

“He shall feed his flock like a shepherd: he shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry them in his bosom, and shall gently lead those that are with young” (Isa. 40:11).

“… the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father…” (Jn. 1:18).

“… Have I begotten them, that thou shouldest say unto me, Carry them in thy bosom, as a nursing father beareth the sucking child…?” (Num. 11:12).

In all these texts, to be in one’s bosom is to have that one’s love and protection. In Lazarus’ case he was taken into the love and protection of Abraham – into an intimate relationship with Abraham. He attained this by becoming a [spiritual] child of Abraham.

 

[Ron_Conte]

After His death and before His Resurrection, Jesus visited the souls in Purgatory, and He visited the souls in Hell. The souls in Purgatory were visited so that they would know Christ, for no one enters Heaven except through Christ. And Christ opened the gates of Heaven, so no one could enter Heaven before Christ.

The souls in Hell were visited so that even they would know Christ, and would know that in dying in a state of actual mortal sin, they had in one way or another rejected Christ implicitly (though they did not know Him by name). The souls in Hell were visited so that the Scripture could be fulfilled:

[Philippians]
{2:8} He humbled himself, becoming obedient even unto death, even the death of the Cross.
{2:9} Because of this, God has also exalted him and has given him a name which is above every name,
{2:10} so that, at the name of Jesus, every knee would bend, of those in heaven, of those on earth, and of those in hell,
{2:11} and so that every tongue would confess that the Lord Jesus Christ is in the glory of God the Father.

 

[humble_maid]

Are you suggesting I have turned my face away from God? I have been so disappointed by the postings I have read on these Forums. I have never known Catholics to be so narrow-minded, judgemental, cruel and, simply, unthinking as I have found on this Forum. Disappointment does not begin to express my disbelief and sorrow. I shared some of these postings with my current Parish Priest and he feels many people here suffer from overinflated egos and a lack of humilty. I thought these Forums would be a place for open discussion. Instead, I found you better agree or you will be attacked. One woman called me evil because I practice yoga as a means of regaining the ability to walk after brain surgery. Even when I assured her I didn’t worship pagan god but simply followed the physicial poses and stretches given by my Instructors she continued to harrass me with private messages.

Please forgive me for my tardiness. I didn’t see your post until now.
I am sorry perhaps I gave you the wrong impression. That last statement I made was not directed at you AnneLee but to those who have turned away from God. Their fate will be sealed. Please pray for them. Obviously you are inclined to God; I do not question that.

My response to you was one of heartfelt outpouring. I did mention that like yourself I find it hard to believe God could punish someone for all eternity; this is why I mentionned that the scriptures tell of God’s infinite mercy. Thus we should trust in Him.

God Bless

 

[Mailman]

After His death and before His Resurrection, Jesus visited the souls in Purgatory, and He visited the souls in Hell. The souls in Purgatory were visited so that they would know Christ, for no one enters Heaven except through Christ. And Christ opened the gates of Heaven, so no one could enter Heaven before Christ.

The souls in Hell were visited so that even they would know Christ, and would know that in dying in a state of actual mortal sin, they had in one way or another rejected Christ implicitly (though they did not know Him by name). The souls in Hell were visited so that the Scripture could be fulfilled:

[Philippians]
{2:8} He humbled himself, becoming obedient even unto death, even the death of the Cross.
{2:9} Because of this, God has also exalted him and has given him a name which is above every name,
{2:10} so that, at the name of Jesus, every knee would bend, of those in heaven, of those on earth, and of those in hell,
{2:11} and so that every tongue would confess that the Lord Jesus Christ is in the glory of God the Father.

If Jesus was able to visit places when He was supposed to have been dead and buried, then Jesus did not really die. If that is so, then we are all lost, for only His death can atone for our sins.

If after His death and before His resurrection Christ opened the gates of heaven for all the righteous souls to enter, then surely King David would have been one of the first to have entered heaven when Christ opened its gates. But notice this. About 50 days after Christ’s resurrection, we find the apostle Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, declaring:

“Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day… For David is not ascended into the heavens…” (Acts 2:29-34).

Now, when Jesus showed Himself to Mary Magdalene that Sunday morning after His resurrection, “Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father…” (John 20:17). Clearly, Jesus did not go to heaven; much less opened its gates, during the time when He was dead. If He did not go to heaven, why would He go to Hell and to Purgatory – assuming those places even exist?

But the Scripture in Philippians tells us no such place exists. “So that at the name of Jesus, every knee would bend, of those in heaven, of those on earth, and of those under the earth [Greek, katachthonius. Hell, as in hellfire, is gehenna in the Greek]." Notice there is no mention of either Hell or Purgatory. If these places exist, then we can say that those in Hell and Purgatory would not bend their knees at the name of Jesus. But the next verse tells us that “EVERY TONGUE would confess that the Lord Jesus Christ is in the glory of God the Father.”

 

[itinerant1]

The souls in Hell were visited so that even they would know Christ, and would know that in dying in a state of actual mortal sin, they had in one way or another rejected Christ implicitly (though they did not know Him by name). The souls in Hell were visited so that the Scripture could be fulfilled:

Your statement says that Christ visited the Hell of the damned. Do you have some authorities you can cite for that interpretation?

My understanding is that Christ did not descend to the hell of the damned. Hell is the English word that conjures up the idea of the hell of those in mortal sin, yet Scripture and the ancient Jewish world have a wider concept than that. There was a development in the Old Testament of early idea of Hades, where everyone was just a shadowy replica of their former selves. Later the idea of Hades or Gehenna developed into a place of punishment and a separate place for the righteous. The latter place was sometimes referred to as the Bosom of Abraham or even Paradise, where the just awaited the Savior. Even later in hisotry, this place has been called the* Limbo of the Fathers*.

The word “Hell” has been used for both the place of the damned, and the second and separate place for the righteous. Christ descend to the Hell of those who awaited the Savior. There was no need for Christ to visit the Hell of the damned because all Scripture prophecies about Christ’s triumph will be totally fulfilled during the Final Judgement. Confer the scenes of the Last Judgement in Scripture.

I will cite Father William Most on this matter of Hell:

Fifth Article: “He descended into hell, the third day He rose again from the dead”

1. Christ’s Descent into Limbo and His Resurrection

After His death, the soul of Jesus, still united to the divinity, descended into the realm of the dead, which the Creed calls “hell”, in the old English usage. It does not mean at all the hell of the damned. He visited what is called the Limbo of the Fathers. For the just, who had died in the state of grace, and had paid all the debt of their sins, were still not admitted to the vision of God until Jesus had died.

(From BASIC CATHOLIC CATECHISM at EWTN)

Also see, DID JESUS REALLY VISIT HELL? by Fr. William Saunders, who discusses the different places and meanings of Hell.