Jesus' Descent to Hell

[WordisLove]

In the reading from last week I believe, the parable of Lazarus and the rich man was told. In the reading the rich man is in Sheol (hell / hades) and Lazarus was also in Sheol (hell/hades), however, Lazarus was within the blessed bosom of Abraham. The underworld of the blessed was separated from the underworld of the damned by a large chasm which could not be crossed from either side. My understanding of this is sketchy at best so I may be mis-representing this and apologize if this is the case, but…

**My question is this: ** After the crucifixion Jesus said to the good thief: tonight you will be with me in paradise, Abraham;s bosom in sheol was also known as paradise (I cannot remember the greek word). When Jesus descended into hell to preach the good news to the just who died before Jesus existed, did he only preach to the souls within Abraham’s bosom or did he minister to both sides of the chasm? Do we know? Thanks.

 

[ABiii]

The best answer I could get is from this link:

vatican.va/archive/catechism/p122a5p1.htm

 

[Evan]

In the reading from last week I believe, the parable of Lazarus and the rich man was told. In the reading the rich man is in Sheol (hell / hades) and Lazarus was also in Sheol (hell/hades), however, Lazarus was within the blessed bosom of Abraham. The underworld of the blessed was separated from the underworld of the damned by a large chasm which could not be crossed from either side.

Many questions stand out:

When Jesus said you will be with me in paradise. Did he mean heaven or bosom of Abraham? What does today mean after death?

When we hear of the rich man, was he in Purgatory or Hell of the Damned?

Being a parable, being it was Jesus speaking, perhaps there are many answers to such questions. Scripture can be read on many levels. He was trying to illustrate a point: does the illustration correspond to a reality in the after life? Can those in Heaven communicate with those in Hell, in Purgatory? Can those in Purgatory/Hell converse with those in Heaven? Can they view the condition of those in other places? Can physical suffering apply to those without a body?

I think there is a danger of trying to learn too much about the afterlife from parables (stories told to reveal a truth).

 

[WordisLove]

Thank you for the replies. I am not really trying to squeeze more out of this than is at the surface but I just realized the other day that Jesus’ parable was speaking (at least as far as I thought) not between a man in heaven and hell but two sides of Sheol. And was trying to follow that line of thought out. I do agree with you though Evan. I do find it interesting though. At the time of the parable however the gates of heaven had not yet been opened, and He does refer to the bosom of Abraham…anyway, I could go on a while.
ABii, that link answered my question perfectly. He descended into Hell (Sheol) as the Saviour of the Just souls imprisoned there.

Paragraph 1. Christ Descended into Hell

632 The frequent New Testament affirmations that Jesus was “raised from the dead” presuppose that the crucified one sojourned in the realm of the dead prior to his resurrection.477 This was the first meaning given in the apostolic preaching to Christ’s descent into hell: that Jesus, like all men, experienced death and in his soul joined the others in the realm of the dead. But he descended there as Savior, proclaiming the Good News to the spirits imprisoned there.478

633 Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, “hell” - Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek - because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God.479 Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the Redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the parable of the poor man Lazarus who was received into “Abraham’s bosom”:480 "It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Savior in Abraham’s bosom, whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell."481 Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him.482

634 "The gospel was preached even to the dead."483 The descent into hell brings the Gospel message of salvation to complete fulfilment. This is the last phase of Jesus’ messianic mission, a phase which is condensed in time but vast in its real significance: the spread of Christ’s redemptive work to all men of all times and all places, for all who are saved have been made sharers in the redemption.

 

[Protestant101]

Here is a general question for all participants here in this topic.

Where does the Bible support “just” persons going to hell? Several posters have mentioned this idea. I would like to see detailed explanations about this.

 

[rwoehmke]

Here is a general question for all participants here in this topic. Where does the Bible support “just” persons going to hell? Several posters have mentioned this idea. I would like to see detailed explanations about this.

The terms hell, sheol, hades, and possibly others do not appear to have a consistent meaning in our English translations. I cannot speak about the Greek, Hebrew, or Latin terms. It is commonly held in the Catholic Church that Jesus’ descent into hell, meant that he went to the limbo of the just where the just men and women of the Old Testament were awaiting the salvation wrought on the cross to open the “Gates of Heaven” for them. This place is also referred to as “The Bosom of Abraham.” It is considered to no longer exist and was considered a place of natural happiness for the just who died before Jesus. Jesus died for all and anyone who implicitly or explicitly accepted his graces could be saved. The Just who died before Jesus would have accepted him when he came to take them home. You will not find anywhere in the Bible evidence that the Just are sent to the hell of the damned.

 

[smad0142]

Here is a theory:

The Good Thief professed faith in Christ while they were both dying.

St. Dismas, the Good Thief, also suffered tremendously during his own crucifixion AND comforted Christ with kind words during Christ’s Agony on the Cross.

Christ’s Death opens the Gates of Heaven. At the same time Dismas dies just before or at the same time of Christ. Because of the Merits of the Cross combined with Dismas’ Faith and Works (his suffering and his comfort to Our Lord) would he not be the first soul eligible to go to Heaven? So Christ, who has given His Spirit up to the Father, takes Dismas with him and presents Dismas as the first soul to enter Heaven. Then Christ, after He has given up His Spirit and presented it to our Heavenly Father along with bringing St. Dismas to Heaven, goes down into the descent into Hades.

 

[mercytruth]

WordisLove,

As to your statement, leading to a question:

**After the crucifixion Jesus said to the good thief: tonight you will be with me in paradise

This is how the Greek is translated since there are no commas in the Greek language:

Truly I say to you today you shall be with me in Paradise**

Now with that in mind, one could place a pause after the word ‘today’, rather than after the word ‘you’.

For the fact is, Paradise is not a part of Sheol. The apostle Peter said on the day of Pentecost, "whom God raised up, having loosed the sorrows of sheol, (hades) for it was not possible for him to be held by it" (Acts 2:24).

Later, in the same sermon to the Jews, the apostle Peter quotes Ps.16 with regard to the soul of Jesus being in sheol. "Thou will not my soul in sheol, neither will thou allow thy holy one to see corruption corruption’.

Jesus also preached to the spirits in prison according to Peter. There are at least two questions to ask: Whether ‘prison’ is the same place as sheol? And, are souls in one place, and the spirits in another? Jesus did say to His Father before he died, “into thy hands, I commend my spirit”’ Was he speaking of his last breath on earth, or of the Spirit of his divinity?

You ask good questions. I don’t know if anyone has conclusive answers. I do know from my reading of the lives of certain saints like St.John of the Cross, St. Therese of Liseaux, St. Faustina and others, that they all went through a terrible dark night of the soul. A time of the abandonment of God. For this reason, I believe that our Lord Jesus Christ suffered in sheol for our sins. ‘No servant is above their master’, no saint would undergo a greater suffering than what our Lord Jesus Christ endured.

 

[Wretched_one]

It is commonly held in the Catholic Church that Jesus’ descent into hell, meant that he went to the limbo of the just where the just men and women of the Old Testament were awaiting the salvation wrought on the cross to open the “Gates of Heaven” for them. This place is also referred to as “The Bosom of Abraham.” It is considered to no longer exist and was considered a place of natural happiness for the just who died before Jesus. Jesus died for all and anyone who implicitly or explicitly accepted his graces could be saved. The Just who died before Jesus would have accepted him when he came to take them home. You will not find anywhere in the Bible evidence that the Just are sent to the hell of the damned.

This place was just for Jews or also for gentiles? If latter too, how could they be called “just” when they did not even have the law or even the faith?

 

[Gospel_Man]

In the reading from last week I believe, the parable of Lazarus and the rich man was told. In the reading the rich man is in Sheol (hell / hades) and Lazarus was also in Sheol (hell/hades), however, Lazarus was within the blessed bosom of Abraham. The underworld of the blessed was separated from the underworld of the damned by a large chasm which could not be crossed from either side. My understanding of this is sketchy at best so I may be mis-representing this and apologize if this is the case, but…

**My question is this: ** After the crucifixion Jesus said to the good thief: tonight you will be with me in paradise, Abraham;s bosom in sheol was also known as paradise (I cannot remember the greek word). When Jesus descended into hell to preach the good news to the just who died before Jesus existed, did he only preach to the souls within Abraham’s bosom or did he minister to both sides of the chasm? Do we know? Thanks.

Jesus told the thief he would be with Him in paradise, [Abrahams Bosom], But He didn’t say that day.
The thief went to paradise that same day, But Jesus didn’t, He went to hell [In our place], If He didn’t go to hell then hell still awaits us.

Acts 2: 27, &v31, says Jesus’s souls was in hell. “Hades”, [Not paradise].
V24 says God loosed Jesus from the pains of death, [Spiritual death] In hell.
God didn’t lose Jesus from the pains of physical death, HE DIED.

Then Jesus was born again In hell 1 Pet 3: 18-19…He was made alive in His Spirit, That means He must have died Spiritually first.
And Jesus proclaimed the victory over the devil and demons, V19.

Then Jesus went to departed righteous, and preached the gospel to them. 1 Pet 4: 6.
That when Jesus was in paradise with the thief.

We don’t know how long Jesus was in hell before he was made alive Spiritually and wet to Paradise.

But that is what hapened while Jesus’s body was in the tomb.

 

[Gospel_Man]

Here is a theory:

The Good Thief professed faith in Christ while they were both dying.

St. Dismas, the Good Thief, also suffered tremendously during his own crucifixion AND comforted Christ with kind words during Christ’s Agony on the Cross.

Christ’s Death opens the Gates of Heaven. At the same time Dismas dies just before or at the same time of Christ. Because of the Merits of the Cross combined with Dismas’ Faith and Works (his suffering and his comfort to Our Lord) would he not be the first soul eligible to go to Heaven? So Christ, who has given His Spirit up to the Father, takes Dismas with him and presents Dismas as the first soul to enter Heaven. Then Christ, after He has given up His Spirit and presented it to our Heavenly Father along with bringing St. Dismas to Heaven, goes down into the descent into Hades.

Heaven wasn’t opened until the redmption was compleated.

Jesus never went to heaven when He died, He went to hell then paradise with the thief, As He promised him.
In order to compleat redemption, Jesus had to be raised from the dead. 1 Cor 15: 17–18.

 

[Uzziah1]

The best answer I could get is from this link:

vatican.va/archive/catechism/p122a5p1.htm

Jesus frequently does formally what He also did informally, I think to teach.

For example, informal consecration of the Eucharist: Matthew 14:19 (He blessed and broke the loaves). formal consecration of the Eucharist: Matthew 26:26.

Informal conferring of the Holy Spirit: John 20:22; formal conferring of the Holy Spirit: Acts 1:8, 2:2.

Perhaps, though the grace of the cross went backwards in time and saved the faithful of the Old Testament – for example, Moses and Elijah at the Transfiguration, and Mary at the time of her conception in Anne’s womb – the “descent into Hell” was a formal saving of the faithful of the Old Testament.

 

[Jerry-Jet]

Wasn’t there a division in Sheol between the just and unjst dead?

Hell for one side and paradise or Abraham’s bosom for the other side?

When did purgatory start?

Did the just in Sheol undergo purgatory or a purification before jesus descended there or after he preached there?

And did Jesus breing the just in sheol to heaven on holy saturday or when he ascended to heaven as mentioned in the bible on Ascension thursday?

 

[patrick457]

Wasn’t there a division in Sheol between the just and unjst dead?

Hell for one side and paradise or Abraham’s bosom for the other side?

When did purgatory start?

Did the just in Sheol undergo purgatory or a purification before jesus descended there or after he preached there?

And did Jesus breing the just in sheol to heaven on holy saturday or when he ascended to heaven as mentioned in the bible on Ascension thursday?

It’s rather confusing, ain’t it?

Personally I don’t think we can fix the actual day, hour or minute when Jesus liberated the righteous from Limbo, considering that the laws of space and time for this universe may not be applicable for the afterlife. Popular belief shows the Harrowing of Hell as happening somewhere between Good Friday evening and the night of Holy Saturday, but who knows? IMHO it could have also easily happened at the exact moment when Jesus died, taking a split second to accomplish, or maybe even less. (Now for some reason I can’t help at times but be tempted to picture the actual Harrowing as happening like: “O Lord, we thank you for co…” POOF! “Here we are. Welcome to Heaven!” “Wow. That was fast.” )

 

[teeboy]

Hell for the “Just” was a place of rest where they were not tormented by the unjust. In the NT, Hell is anywhere but Heaven, which would include Purgatory.

This is my interpretation.

 

[rlim0395]

After the crucifixion Jesus said to the good thief: tonight you will be with me in paradise,…
When Jesus descended into hell to preach the good news to the just who died before Jesus existed,…

you will be with me in paradise,… === Jesus as God can exist in many places at the same time. He can be in paradise and with the dead at the same time. He is God after all.

Jesus descended to the dead to preach the good news… === I always thought this place that Jesus went to is purgatory.

 

[teeboy]

you will be with me in paradise,… === Jesus as God can exist in many places at the same time. He can be in paradise and with the dead at the same time. He is God after all.

Jesus descended to the dead to preach the good news… === I always thought this place that Jesus went to is purgatory.

In the past, I have always equated this place “abraham’s bosom” as purgatory as well. However, now, I believe purgatory to be a place of fire. “Abraham’s Bosom” was a place of rest. There is no rest with fire.