Jesus Did Not Die

[sainted]

Originally posted by Faith101
Why was Jesus peace be upon him very cautious in the begining to limit his ministry to only the children of Israel. Why did he tell his disciples to preach ONLY to the children of Israel? If his message was for all of mankind, why would he limit himself early on and then later say go and preach to everyone?

To simply answer this doesn’t need any biblical approach. I mean its quite common sense. Let’s look at it this way. If you want to build a house you don’t go about building everything at once. I mean putting up a wall here and erecting up a pole there and everything. The house will simply not stand long.

You start from a good solid foundation first and then everything else after. That house will stand longer if not until the end of time. I mean … you know … I don’t need to elaborate!!

 

[sainted]

To really respond to the claim on this board:

The simple fact is if Jesus did not die there would be no Christianity no Catholic Church period!!!

Alas you wouldn’t have the chance to ask your question either

 

[Faith101]

To simply answer this doesn’t need any biblical approach. I mean its quite common sense. Let’s look at it this way. If you want to build a house you don’t go about building everything at once. I mean putting up a wall here and erecting up a pole there and everything. The house will simply not stand long.

You start from a good solid foundation first and then everything else after. That house will stand longer if not until the end of time. I mean … you know … I don’t need to elaborate!!

THat would make sense if he did not TRY and spread the message to other people, only focusing on the ones with him. But what he did was REFUSE to spread the message or do miracls for anyone outside the children of Israel (except in special cases). DIdnt he know he wasnt going to live long?

 

[Ghosty]

THat would make sense if he did not TRY and spread the message to other people, only focusing on the ones with him. But what he did was REFUSE to spread the message or do miracls for anyone outside the children of Israel (except in special cases). DIdnt he know he wasnt going to live long?

That was only the beginning. His final message, after the foundation was laid with Israel, was to teach all nations.

Mark16:15-16

15 He said to them, "Go into the whole world and proclaim the gospel to every creature. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Matthew 28:19-20:

19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age."

Luke 24:46-47:

46
And he said to them, "Thus it is written that the Messiah would suffer and rise from the dead on the third day 47 and that repentance, for the forgiveness of sins, would be preached in his name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.

It was only in the beginning, in order to lay a foundation, that preaching was for the people of Israel alone, and even then Jesus gave blessings to non-Jews when they showed faith and requested it.

 

[StMarkEofE]

ashab al-yameen:

There are holes, however, in the theory that Jesus Christ was crucified in the place of an insurrectionist.

My theory:
The identities of “Jesus who is called the Messiah” and “Jesus Barabbas” were switched in text, yet not in real life. Jesus Christ was probably the actual Jesus Christ, while “Jesus who is called the Messiah” was a self-claimed king of the Jews, an insurrectionist preparing to topple Pilate’s reign.

Why?

For the following reasons:

Pontius Pilate would me insane to free an insurrectionist and crucify a man who did no harm to his rule.
The morale of Pilate’s soldiers would decrease if they saw Pilate free an insurrectionist who had commited murder.

Pilate had a lot more interest in killing an insurrectionist than to kill some Jewish Prophet.

insurrection: The act or an instance of open revolt against civil authority or a constituted government.

Are you telling me that Pilate would free a man who revolted against him and crucify some man that had problems with his fellow Jews?

Well it was the law to release one person on Passover regardless of the offensiveness of that person. Roman were very strict when it came to the law even if it involved someone who presented a threat to them because they felt secure enough to overcome any insurrection that may be the result of such release.

StMarkEofE

 

[sainted]

(cont’d from above)

2 Peter 2: 1,2 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive opinions. They will even deny the Master who bought them - bringing swift destruction on themselves. Even so, many will follow their licentious ways, and because of these teachers the way of truth will be maligned. And in their greed they will exploit you with deceptive words. Their condemnation, pronounced against them long ago, has not been idle and their destruction is not asleep

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The devil’s first lie was when he deceived Eve as per first generation. His first lie of the second generation in Christ was when he told the people that Christ didn’t rise from the dead instead His apostles secretly stole His body at night. Fortunately only a few bought into his story but unfortunately it held out until this very day evident by followers of that belief.

Now seeing that his ploy didn’t work well on the account that at present almost 2 billion people stand firm to their belief that ‘Christ has risen’ not to mention the billions of the past centuries. It seems he is now changing his story that Jesus wasn’t even crucified. It’s good timing since 2000 years is a long time, sure there will be more confusion then and who doesn’t expect people to buy it. Well a lie contradicts a lie just as Jesus says that there is no truth in it.

Who knows maybe in the next 2000 years satan will say that Jesus switched with Pilate and that it was really Pilate they crucified!!! You maybe laughing but the fact is 2000 years ago if you told people that it wasn’t Jesus Christ they crucified you will find yourself hanging from a cross in no time. But now of course 2000 A.D. it’s possible to say it!!

**Philippians 3:18,19 ** For many live as enemies of the cross of Christ; I have often told you of them, and now I tell you even with tears. Their end is destruction; their god is the belly; and their glory is in their shame; their minds are set on earthly things

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**2 Thessalonians 2: 9-12 ** The coming of the lawless one is apparent in the working of satan, who uses all power, signs, lying wonders, and every kind of wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion, leading them to believe what is false, so that all who have not believed the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness will be condemned

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1 Timothy 1: 6, 7 Some people have deviated from these and turned to meaningless talk, desiring to be teachers of the law, without understanding either what they are saying or the things about which they make assertions

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“If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinners?” Saint Peter

 

[sainted]

THE CUNNING DEVIL

It doesn’t seem any amount of scriptural accounts of Christ’s ordeal will ever straightened the mind of the unbeliever, let alone the vast amount of historic manuscripts available and tradition itself. That said, rather then counter it with what is seemingly a dire effort of the Truth to discredit such awkward pathetic (or rather hilarious) claims, let’s verify it with a look at scriptural attributes to the devil.

**1 John 2: 18 ** Children, it is the last hour! As you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. From this we know that it is the last hour.
22 Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son.
23 No one who denies the Son has the Father; everyone who confesses the Son has the Father also

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**John 8: 44 ** You are from your father the devil, and you choose to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies

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On the conclusion that the whole thing (article/book) is no more than ‘another gospel’ is supported by its cunning blending of God’s Sacred Word verses with man’s mere perversion. Let’s see what the Bible foretold:

Another gospel, another belief!

Galatians 1: 6-9 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel – not that there is another gospel, but there are some who are confusing you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should proclaim to you a gospel contrary to what we proclaimed to you, let that one be accursed! As we said before so now I repeat, if anyone proclaims to you a gospel contrary to what you received let that one be accursed!

Another Jesus!

2 Corinthians 11:3-5 But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by its cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ. For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you submit to it readily enough

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These staunch warnings and many others by St. Paul and the apostles with the grace of the Holy Spirit made it impossible for any later teaching, revelation, allegation, gossip or conspiracy theory to distort what had been deposited to the apostles. The evidence is that not an iota or a single word of Muhammad managed to infiltrate the Sacred Word, only that on the contrary the Sacred Word is integrated into the Koran in the most twisted and distorted manifestation. We’re warned of this.

(cont’d)

 

[Desert_Father]

lahokamal:

Those who maintain that Jesus (pbuh) was killed or is dead are making a serious mistake. One purpose in writing this book is to explain why this is so. In the following pages, we will examine the Qur’anic verses and the hadith of Prophet Muhammad (may God bless him and grant him peace) that reveal the truth of this issue, which has confused so many people over the centuries.

Read for yoursuelf;

harunyahya.com/books/faith/did_not_die/jesus_did_not_die_01.php

Interesting, but expected. This is the old Donatist herricy, one of the reasons the Nestorians were excommunicated from the church in it’s first few hundred years. They still exist, especially around the Arab world. In his youth, Muhammad was a caravan guard, and in their travels the caravans saught the safety of the Nestorian monastaries, already thrown out of the true Church. This is where he picked up the very erronious understanding of Christianity he used as a source when he wrote the Koran, and upon which Islam is based. This trips up an lot of Christian laymen who aren’t aware of the facts. They think Musalems are talking about the real Bible when in fact they aren’t. They are talking about a collection of errors that were discredited. What is the sense of listening to an argument based upon a completely discredited, in fact fradulant source? I have, for the record, read the Koran, many times. I’ve carefully analized it. I spent my first years of seminary in an institution with a now 116 year history of missions to Arabia. My mentor was retired from 30 years as a missionary in Saudi Arabia (yes, I know it’s illegal, but it’s easier than you think). I’m an historic-redactive analist by training, and know the holy writ from it’s earliest sources, not popular piety but the archeological facts, along with it’s dead ends and it’s offshoots, including the Koran. There is no valid argument presented here. Sorry, but facts are facts.