Jesus DID predict the protestants!!!

[justinthemartyr]

That means all protestant churches collapsed? I’m confused. Or that they will collapse?

I would say that every form of protestant church, from the time of the reformers has collapsed doctrinally and has softened for the world in their doctrines. I do not know of a protestant church that has not changed their teachings on faith and morality, especially as it concerns contraception. All protestant churches taught against any form of contraception until approx 1930. I do not know of one that teaches against it now, at least none stemming directly from the reformation period.

The only Church which still stands from the time of Christ, which was built on cephas(rock) is the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

 

[bluestarsneyes]

No need for you to worry. At this time you are innocently ignorant of the Catholic faith. But if you continue to stay on this site and learn more and more about the Catholic Church you will surely come to know, like so many before you, the truth and then, should you refuse to enter the Church you can not be saved. You will no longer be innocently ignorant. To refuse His Church is to refuse Him.

I’ve attended Catholic Church for three years…I’m friends with many a priest and am a Theological student…I’m not ignorant so to speak…just never heard that spin on that teaching on the Catholic Church still being given out these days…wow…have to post this to my priest buddies and see what they make out of that.

I was told that what it really is saying is that of course salvation comes from GOD not his church…and that the church is to be a model and teach the way as Christ did…therefore…if you learn through the church the teachings of Christ and come to salvation in Christ…it would mean salvation was with CHRIST but the Church was but a tool to get you there.

HOWEVER, this is not how you are spinning it when you say if I reject the Catholic Church I reject him…I think you forget the cross of Christ!

 

[episcogirl]

Just to put this out there…then nothing should ever change? Then, maybe I should go out and try and buy some indulgences? JK. I see your point, though.

 

[mangy_dog]

Know what’s funny?

Everybody will believe in Mary when they meet her in Heaven.

Then, they’ll remember which Church loved and believed in her first.

Then it’ll hit them like a V-8 commercial.

There are going to be more conversions at that moment than any Pope could’ve ever have hoped for! LOL!

That is funny and sad, 'cause the time to believe is now. The time to do all the “church militant” stuff is now.

Funny but sad.

 

[2ndGen]

I would say that every form of protestant church, from the time of the reformers has collapsed doctrinally and has softened for the world in their doctrines. I do not know of a protestant church that has not changed their teachings on faith and morality, especially as it concerns contraception. All protestant churches taught against any form of contraception until approx 1930. I do not know of one that teaches against it now, at least none stemming directly from the reformation period.

The only Church which still stands from the time of Christ, which was built on cephas(rock) is the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

Can’t argue with the truth.



I think the debates should change from The Protestant Church to individual Protestant denominations.

Why?

Because no two sects believe in the same exact doctrines.

So, if we addressed them individually, we’d get a better sense of them.

Their like a house full of cousins.

We are like a house full or brothers.

They range from snake using worshippers to near Catholic-like Churches.

We should have the NCC’s (non-Catholic Christians) state their denomination and then we’ll compare our faith with theirs directly.

Not all of them believe the same thing so it would be unfair to attach the beliefs in some having a married homosexual clergy or that all of them believe in murdering babies in the womb. Some of them do, but not all of them.

The only thing that they agree on collectively is that they don’t want to be universal Christians, but Christians that belong to a sect.

 

[bluestarsneyes]

Agreed! Calling all Protestants the same is like calling all the Priests that molested children CATHOLIC!

I mean let’s play fair here for a minute.

This mindset on this sight that Protestant means something heretical or ugly…and also classifies anyone that believes in God but isn’t a member of the Catholic Church is really harsh and does NOT allow Catholics to show love and compassion…basically if you want anyone converted on this sight that isn’t Catholic…you might want to respond in the way those not raised in the ONE TRUE CHURCH should act!

 

[2ndGen]

That is funny and sad, 'cause the time to believe is now. The time to do all the “church militant” stuff is now.

Funny but sad.

I always ask the Mary Haters what their going to do when they get to Heaven and meet Jesus?

If we were to both die and went up together,
Jesus would ask them why they had to spend so much time discrediting His mother’s honor and worrying about her sex life.

Me? He’d thank me for defending her agains their attacks.

Then I’d run up to my mommy and give her a hug!

(and I’m choking up as I write this…")

Then, our mother would call that “former” Mary Hater over to her and give him a hug to and forgive him.

 

[episcogirl]

I’m sorry…I don’t think this post will get anyone anywhere.

You can’t expect Catholics to renounce their catechism and allow the fact that someone outside of the Roman Catholic Church could be allowed salvation.

Yet the Non-Catholic Christians are stunned at the exclusivity of that statement. Especially when we are attacked and called baby-killers and such.

There is a lot of talk on this forum in general about “you can’t put a limit on what God can do” mostly in reference to Non-Catholic Christians objections to Catholic Doctrine.

But, now who’s limiting God?

Look. I just think this thread is causing more tension and disharmony and it is not helping anyone to understand each other. At least if there was any way to have a meaningful dialogue (sp?) this thread could get somewhere.

But, alas, I don’t think it can. It just might revert to name calling and bad feelings.

 

[episcogirl]

I always ask the Mary Haters what their going to do when they get to Heaven and meet Jesus?

If we were to both die and went up together,
Jesus would ask them why they had to spend so much time discrediting His mother’s honor and worrying about her sex life.

Me? He’d thank me for defending her agains their attacks.

Then I’d run up to my mommy and give her a hug!

(and I’m choking up as I write this…")

Then, our mother would call that “former” Mary Hater over to her and give him a hug to and forgive him.

I’m not Roman Catholic but I’m NOT a Mary Hater.

I think you’re being hateful by using that term…it is certainly un-Christian to say something like that about someone else!

 

[stmaria]

I’ve attended Catholic Church for three years…I’m friends with many a priest and am a Theological student…

I’m not ignorant so to speak…just never heard that spin on that teaching on the Catholic Church still being given out these days…wow…have to post this to **my priest buddies **and see what they make out of that.
Please, please, let me know what your “priest buddies” say about it. I am curious. Do you study St. Thomas Aquinas, Pope Pius IX, X, XI and Pius XII? Pope Leo XIII? Or do you study the works of Curran, Rahner, Kung? Is your priest a Jesuit?

I was told that what it really is saying is that of course salvation comes from GOD not his church

 

[2ndGen]

Agreed! Calling all Protestants the same is like calling all the Priests that molested children CATHOLIC!

Come on now, I know that this is a Protestant country (230Million Protestants/70Million Catholics) and you guys are really good at hiding your own sins while pointing out the sins of others like The Pharisees, but just like the two good Pharisees, there are some good Protestants who tell the truth about “who’s” the church that molest children at a rate of 14/1.

csmonitor.com/2002/0405/p01s01-ussc.htm

www.Reformation.com

I mean let’s play fair here for a minute.

Yes, lets…
Matthew 7:5
“You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.”

(I’m not calling you a hypocrite by citing Jesus’ words on bringing up other’s sins, but I just wanted you to see what happens when one does that…it’s abominable to Jesus).

This mindset on this sight that Protestant means something heretical or ugly…and also classifies anyone that believes in God but isn’t a member of the Catholic Church is really harsh and does NOT allow Catholics to show love and compassion…basically if you want anyone converted on this sight that isn’t Catholic…you might want to respond in the way those not raised in the ONE TRUE CHURCH should act!

The Catholic Church is the one true Church for “Catholics”, not for anybody else. You’re misunderstanding the meaning of the phrase.

Also, a Protestant by definition is any person who calls themselves a Christian but that is outside of the first Christian Church in existance. This isn’t a neccessarily negative definition. It just is what a Christian outside of The Church is called.

Doesn’t make you bad in our eyes, just not “universal”. You belong to a sect of Christianity that can trace its founder back to a human being not in Scripture, not by one of The Apostles (as were The Catholic Church and was The Orthodox Church.

 

[2ndGen]

You can’t expect Catholics to renounce their catechism and allow the fact that someone outside of the Roman Catholic Church could be allowed salvation.

Educate yourself here:

catholic.com/library/Salv…the_Church.asp

Yet the Non-Catholic Christians are stunned at the exclusivity of that statement. Especially when we are attacked and called baby-killers and such.

Their stunned becuase they err in it’s meaning. If they really cared about that tenet, they’d actually read the entire document from which the statement comes from.

But instead, they grasp a headline and run with it…know who else did this? The Muslims when he quoted someone else on Mohammed. And what came out of that? Confusion, lies, and disinformation.

The truth is, most Protestants rush to judgement when they here a Catholic doctrine and without studying it, run to tell the world of how “unChristian” we are. This is why they cannot unify even amongt themselves.

Look. I just think this thread is causing more tension and disharmony and it is not helping anyone to understand each other. At least if there was any way to have a meaningful dialogue (sp?) this thread could get somewhere.

Don’t blame the words or the text, but the person who reacts to them. I can read this and not see anything wrong with it. I’m intelligent enough to do my own research before I jump to conclusions.

If Protestants that are anti-Catholic did this,
they’d see that we have much more in common than we have separating us.

 

[2ndGen]

I’m not Roman Catholic but I’m NOT a Mary Hater.

I think you’re being hateful by using that term…it is certainly un-Christian to say something like that about someone else!

If the shoe fits, they shouldn’t get mad. Anybody that feels angry when we speak well about Mary, well, that’s a black hearted person. How could they feel wrath at the mention of her name?

Besides, I was addressing the Mary Haters. If you don’t hater her, then it doesn’t apply to you. There’s no need for you to defend them (unless you’re one of them, which you’re not). And I’m glad you don’t hate Jesus’ mother.

 

[SacredHeartFan]

I did not mean for this thread to turn into this. There have been some very rude comments from both Protestants and Catholics. The Pope is trying for Christian unity and some of the answers to this thread are NOT helping! I just wanted to make my opinion known and to see if anyone could give me a little insight to my idea, but no you all go and insult each other. I am very disapointed in all the Catholics who have been rude. This reflects badly on yourselves, Catholic Answers, and the Church. As for the Protestants, what I understand from my Protestant friends, you should also be ashamed of yourselves. I will be talking to a moderater about closing this thread. It really disapoints me!

 

[bluestarsneyes]

Thomas Aquinas he’s super cool! Like him…not read any of the others as of yet but I’m in school and have LOTS of other things to read…in my spare time I’ve been reading books by the last Pope John Paul…Mother Teresa…and the new Pope…he’s one that interest me alot as he’s a Theologian himself.

All of them attend traditional Roman Catholic Churches. I’ll double check…but pretty sure. However, most of them are quite young as well…so may have more of a modern viewpoint. Although they seemed pretty traditional to me…lol until I read on here and I’m like…huh?

2ndGen…I have no log my dear friend…the kind of sacrastic tones you have towards Protestants is what is offensive and heck I could REALLY care less except that I’m offended for my Catholic folks that you would call people on here things like MaryHaters…and Baby Killers???

I just wonder if the Pope were around and reading your responses if he would not be embarrassed! Love, Compassion, the example of Christ…where is that? I was simply using the example if you want to throw stones at Protestants…come on…there are PLENTY of boulders to go BOTH WAYS!

 

[2ndGen]

2ndGen…I have no log my dear friend…the kind of sacrastic tones you have towards Protestants is what is offensive and heck I could REALLY care less except that I’m offended for my Catholic folks that you would call people on here things like MaryHaters…and Baby Killers???

I’m only offensive to anti-Catholics. I never put down Protestants that aren’t anti-Catholic. As for the Mary Haters and Baby Killers, they are what they are.

Ok, let me be politically correct for you then: Mary Deniers and Pro-Choicers. Does that satisfy you? Doesn’t change the facts, just sugar coats them.

I just wonder if the Pope were around and reading your responses if he would not be embarrassed! Love, Compassion, the example of Christ…where is that? I was simply using the example if you want to throw stones at Protestants…come on…there are PLENTY of boulders to go BOTH WAYS!

The Pope “is” around.

Even Jesus Christ called people things that you would consider politically incorrect or rude (Matthew 23:33 “You serpents, you brood of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell?”)

By the way, aren’t you the same one who brought up the Priest Sexual Scandal and call them pedophiles?

 

[SacredHeartFan]

STOP IT NOW!!! I’M IN MIDDLE SCHOOL AND I’M MAKING MORE SENSE THAN YOU!!! I WILL REPORT ALL OF YOU!!! JUST STOP IT AND GET ALONG!!! :nope: :nope:

 

[briang72]

Here is the latest response to who has salvation. This is an excerpt from CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH - RESPONSES TO SOME QUESTIONS REGARDING CERTAIN ASPECTS
OF THE DOCTRINE ON THE CHURCH

Emphasis added:

SECOND QUESTION

What is the meaning of the affirmation that the Church of Christ subsists in the Catholic Church?

RESPONSE

Christ “established here on earth” only one Church and instituted it as a “visible and spiritual community”[5], that from its beginning and throughout the centuries has always existed and will always exist, and in which alone are found all the elements that Christ himself instituted.[6] “This one Church of Christ, which we confess in the Creed as one, holy, catholic and apostolic …]. This Church, constituted and organised in this world as a society, subsists in the Catholic Church, governed by the successor of Peter and the Bishops in communion with him”.[7]

In number 8 of the Dogmatic Constitution Lumen gentium ‘subsistence’ means this perduring, historical continuity and the permanence of all the elements instituted by Christ in the Catholic Church[8], in which the Church of Christ is concretely found on this earth.

It is possible, according to Catholic doctrine, to affirm correctly that the Church of Christ is present and operative in the churches and ecclesial Communities not yet fully in communion with the Catholic Church, on account of the elements of sanctification and truth that are present in them.[9] Nevertheless, the word “subsists” can only be attributed to the Catholic Church alone precisely because it refers to the mark of unity that we profess in the symbols of the faith (I believe… in the “one” Church); and this “one” Church subsists in the Catholic Church.[10]

THIRD QUESTION

Why was the expression “subsists in” adopted instead of the simple word “is”?

RESPONSE

***The use of this expression, which indicates the full identity of the Church of Christ with the Catholic Church, does not change the doctrine on the Church. Rather, it comes from and brings out more clearly the fact that there are “numerous elements of sanctification and of truth” which are found outside her structure, but which “as gifts properly belonging to the Church of Christ, impel towards Catholic Unity”.[11]

“It follows that these separated churches and Communities, though we believe they suffer from defects, are deprived neither of significance nor importance in the mystery of salvation. In fact the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as instruments of salvation, whose value derives from that fullness of grace and of truth which has been entrusted to the Catholic Church”[12].***

This rather clearly states that the Catholic Church does not exclude salvation from the separated communities. The truth is that all separated communities must have separated from a single Church.

I am extremely fortunate to be a cradle Catholic. It is extremely hard to find the one true Church in today’s society. It seems as though each month a new Protestant community is born and a new interpretation of the the Word of God along with it, each one claiming to be true.

The Catholic Church is striving to reunite these communities fully with her, not “exclude them from salvation”.

 

[2ndGen]

Be careful when you report us.

You yourself are guilty of the infraction of using all capitol letters to yell at us.

Watch it with the stone throwing…sometimes they riccochet.

It seems that the one who wants peace seems to be the only one yelling here.

I think you should just relax and allow the open exchange of respectful dialogue among people who disagree. It’s only through this open unhindered and unbridled exchange that we can elimnated the misunderstandings between us.

Allow me to remind you of what a “forum” is for:

fo·rum
–noun,

1. the marketplace or public square of an ancient Roman city, the center of judicial and business affairs and a place of assembly for the people.
2. a court or tribunal: the forum of public opinion.
3. an assembly, meeting place, television program, etc., for the discussion of questions of public interest.
4. the Forum, the forum in the ancient city of Rome.

Sticking our heads in the sand like ostriches will not bring about mutual understanding.

Let the forum continue to be "an assembly, meeting place, television program, etc., for the discussion of questions of public interest. "

 

[2ndGen]

Here is the latest response to who has salvation. This is an excerpt from CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH - RESPONSES TO SOME QUESTIONS REGARDING CERTAIN ASPECTS
OF THE DOCTRINE ON THE CHURCH

Emphasis added:

This rather clearly states that the Catholic Church does not exclude salvation from the separated communities. The truth is that all separated communities must have separated from a single Church.

I am extremely fortunate to be a cradle Catholic. It is extremely hard to find the one true Church in today’s society. It seems as though each month a new Protestant community is born and a new interpretation of the the Word of God along with it, each one claiming to be true.

The Catholic Church is striving to reunite these communities fully with her, not “exclude them from salvation”.

:clapping: