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CWBetts
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They were made null and void in Acts. Period.
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djconklin
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No food ever made man unclean. It is the food itself that is not safe for you to eat. If you re-read the account in Mark you’ll see that they were talking about ceremonial cleanliness–the cup had to be washed just right or it would cause the food to be “unclean.” Like the Japanese tea ceremony.
Continue reading the chapter and as I showed you Peter explains that he was shown that no man (such as the Gentiles) were to be considered unclean. Otherwise, the Judaizers would have had their way and the Gentiles who converted to Christianity would have to be circumcised–and all of Paul’s ministry would have been in vain.
If pork is now clean why do you have to make extra sure that you cook it well enough? Even chicken from its fecal soup in the processsing has to be handled carefully. They had a show in Mystery ER where a guy ate some chicken parmessian prepared by a friend and it nearly killed him. And you don’t eat chicken sourh of the border because it eats stuff that you’d never eat–eyewitness testimony.
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djconklin
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Read the whole chapter (the vision is verses 9-16, read 17, then verse 28, then the next chapter 5-10 Peter* re-tells the vision as to why he went to the Gentiles).
*If Peter was the 1st Pope then who’s interpretation carries more weight? His or the common misconception?
The distinction in the dream isn’t between clean and unclean, but “common” and unclean. Peter says he never eats the “common,” God tells him that what He has cleansed to no longer call “common”–the unclean remain.
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djconklin
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You are assuming that if some one fell ill that they knew whast caused it.
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LilyM
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So why didn’t God ban the Jews from eating chicken then, if it also has such huge problems? What about beef, duck, lamb (in fact God commanded the Jews to eat lamb at Passover, so vegetarianism is totally anti-biblical) - all have their own problems. So does fish, to which loads of people are allergic, although I’m willing to grant that God bans other kinds of seafood.
Of course, vegetables have their problems too. Green or sprouting potatoes have chemicals in them that an be very nasty. I know I can’t eat carrots raw - something naturally occuring in them doesn’t agree with me unless they’re cooked.
Grains like rye need to be stored carefully - they’re susceptible to fungus that can have bad effects on people who eat bread or other products made from them.
Lot of people are intolerant to wheat, dairy, peanuts. Many times more people die or suffer permanent ill-effects each year from peanut allergies than from pork, yet God doesn’t ban THEM for health reasons. Heck, people have probably suffered more from off mayonnaise in the past year than from pork - why didn’t God ban that then?
If Leviticus is designed to be a book on food hygiene, then why doesn’t God teach people about washing their hands before they cook, fer crying out loud?
You can’t just single pork out and assume that God banned it for health reasons if he didn’t have anything to say about these other potentially life-threatening foods.
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LilyM
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I’m assuming nothing of the kind. I’m telling you that the law doesn’t permit instructions to be put on Drano bottles for its use in processing pork if in fact it is dangerous to humans to use it for such a purpose. It’d be like putting instructions on a bottle of bleach telling you how to use it to kill humans!
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djconklin
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Because way back then they didn’t wash the chicken in a fecal soup as was shown on 60 Minutes.
They didn’t have mayo back then. But, look on the bright side! If the critics are right the mayo is clean!
It would be real interesting to see the study that proved that Drano could be used without harm to humans. Who’d they test it on?
Is this the same law creating agency that allows mouse droppings in your food?
If you get ill does the doc even think of checking to see if it’s Drano poisoning from the pork chops you ate?
Young lady went to several doctors complaining of blinding headaches, blurred vision, dizzy spells, etc… One gives her some pain killers and the subsequent one’s thinks she’s just popping the pills and nothing is wrong with her. After seeing a dozen or so doctors one finally checks her sinus cavity and find a large tumor. Another was going to the doctors for decades till finally one figured out what the problem was. Too many doctors assume that any illness you get is the run of the mill type or that you are faking it for the pain killers.
Several years ago a fast food chain named Jack in the Box had a food problem that caused a couple hundred or so people to get ill and killed a few kids. It turned out it was from a bacteria called Listeria. The problem was that no one was checking for it till the outbreak!
The instructions on the Drano weren’t for how to kill humans, but how to flush out a pig. There have been guys who have used Drano to kill people tho’.
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LilyM
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And they didn’t have Drano way back then either - yet you’re happy enough to apparently assume that God foresaw the modern-day use of it and banned pork consumption for all time at least partly because of it. Including, mind you, all those thousands of years when it wasn’t being used, which makes absolutely no sense.
So tell me, why HASN’T God spoken out within the last few decades - or ever - to protect us from the objectionable chicken-processing practices start, and impose a ban on it for us, if He is so concerned about food hygiene?
Precautionary principle mate - people and governments these days are finicky enough about food, and suspicious enough, that they don’t legalise the use of unknown and potentially dangerous practices in its preparation. And I’m positive the fecal soup would be an illegal practice, no?
And what about all the vegetables and other crops that were (and probably are still) being sprayed with, or otherwise affected by, DDT, dieldrin and other noxious nasties?
There are mouse droppings - and much worse - in even the purest drinking water and freshest organic veges all the time. Doesn’t stop you eating them, I should thinkIs this the same law creating agency that allows mouse droppings in your food?
Can’t get rid of them all, and in fact if you tried to drink totally distilled water that had all such things removed it’d ruin your health by leaching necessary nutrients out of your body.A bit of organic matter is necessary, superbugs thrive in hospitals because of over-sterilisation, and kids are developing asthma and allergies at record rates precisely because they are less exposed to minor germs than they used to be.
No - because they’ve never had to. See doctors do, quite sensibly, start by ruling out common causes of illness before looking for the rare or utterly unheard-of alternatives like Drano in the pork. Seriously, I’ve never personally known anyone who’s been ill in any fashion from pork in my entire life, well-cooked or not.
Having several doctors in my family, I know whereof I speak when I say - rubbish. The only way to practice medicine is by working backwards from the most common causes of illness to the less common. What would you suggest, that everyone who walks through the door of a doctor’s office immediately get every expensive and (usually) unnecessary scan, x-ray, blood test and biopsy known to man?
No - listeria is a very well-known hazard of poor food preparation pratices, not some unknown bug. Testing for it would probably be part of any routine health inspection. The Health Department would’ve been checking for it alright. Probably not as thoroughly as they could have, of course.
Way to completely ignore the point.
Point is only SAFE purposes for use of a product are permitted to be put on its label. Bleach has also been used to kill humans and for other harmful purposes, but but they’d be prosecuted under the law if they actually told you on the label how to put bleach to ANY harmful purpose! On the contrary, there are plenty of nice big safety warnings instead - as there are on Drano as well.
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djconklin
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I didn’t make that assumption at all. As I noted earlier a chemical engineer did a study on the internal workings of a pig and his findings were enough to dissuade those with him from going to eat ribs that afternoon. Perhaps, we don’t know everything here, that what he found was what God knew long ago.
Perhaps He thinks you already have enough knowledge and common sense to take care of most of it. Perhaps He has more confidence in science and the media than most people. There’s no requirement that He step in all, most of, or even some of, the time.
And who determined that? Is it the same people who said that Thamaldihide (sp?) was okay for medical use?
As far as I know DDT isn’t allowed virtually anywhere on the planet–apparently some areas in Africa where they deal with the tetse (sp?) fly they still use it. I’d be more concerned about crops being grown in southern parts that don’t have enough lavatory facilities out in the field for their farm hands to use.
Who determined that they never had to? If they didn’t know what to look for they’d never know it even when it was in front of them.
Unfortunately most rule out rare simply because, like us, they are creatures of habit. So, if you come in with flu like symptoms they’ll assume that it is the flu–and don’t proceed to look further when you don’t get well. If you have cable watch Mystery ER and you’ll see what happens.
How many people do you know who have been ill? How did you determine that it wasn’t from the pork? On one of the Mystery ER shows they showed a young man who was having a grand mal seizure. They were going to operate on him because they thought that the x-ray showed a tumor in his brain. Another doctor looked at the same x-ray and said that it wasn’t a tumor. Further examination proved that it was trichaenosis (sp?) from the poorly washed hands of the family cook. There could literally be thousands of less severe cases and we wouldn’t know it–after all, who’d look? Who’d think of the rare? Perhaps it is rare because of poor diagnosis. Some people get food poisoning and they think that it is nothing more than a bad case of the flu.
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djconklin
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They showed it on Mystery ER.
Nope, in one case 30 doctors and nurses worked on the patient b4 a specialist was called in and asked a few questions, noted that one test hadn’t been run and when they did they found the cause. I’d say don’t assume that the case you are working on is just like all the others you have had experience with. Don’t rule out “rare” causes a prioiri.
NOW they test for it; but, back then no one was looking–I learned that as part of food safety training.
I never stoop to such a method. I was dealing with what another poster said.
I’d like to see the tests that proved that using Drano to flush out a pig is safe. Perhaps, in my old age I’m not as trusting of what others do–off-topic, but look at the current financial mess with the CDS’s–there used to be laws against it. But, in order to allow it they passed a law that barred states pressing lawsuits against the practice. It was passed off as being done by knowledgeable people who knew what they were doing. Yeah, right! Nothing can go wrong! Heard that before! Same principle with food safety. Look at how long it took them to figure out what was the problem with the tomatoes this past summer.
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djconklin
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New news item:
“FTC Updates 42-Year-Old Tobacco Guidance
Cigarette Companies Can No Longer Advertise “Low-Tar” Smokes Using Government Test”
I can remember when it was recommended that people with lung problems should smoke. Of course, we all know how “up-front” the tobacco companies were to the public and Congress about the health impact/hazards of their product.
“FTC Updates 42-Year-Old Tobacco Guidance
Cigarette Companies Can No Longer Advertise “Low-Tar” Smokes Using Government Test”
I can remember when it was recommended that people with lung problems should smoke. Of course, we all know how “up-front” the tobacco companies were to the public and Congress about the health impact/hazards of their product.
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CWBetts
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DJ: Why are you so obsessed about this? Why don’tyou go all the way back to Genesis, where only a vegan diet was acceptible? If you want to be a champion for food safety, by all means do it!! I applaud the effort. But if you do so, do so reasonably and honestly, and don’t try to cloak it in false theology.
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neploho
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I would avoid eating pork. I would also avoid eating deep fried foods, most snack foods, and to much red meat.
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inJESUS
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Food safety? God knows what we’re eating these days. Even vegetables aren’t healthy anymore. I rarely eat pig meat, very rarely, but it surely is a lot safer than other kinds of meat in here.
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djconklin
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I’m not obsessed about it. People ask questions and I try to answer it. You are 100% right ab’t going back to Genesis and eating a vege diet (current medical science also agrees with it–oddly enough that came up at Thanksgiving dinner tonite!). I don’t do “false theology.” Actually, on this issue I prefer facts to any theology.
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djconklin
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Try working at the feed lot where they fatten up the cattle–the corn “rots” their stomach?!? And then try working at the slaughter house. We had customers who did and would come in after work–they smelled to high heaven! Then in working at a restaurant I learned some of their “dirty little secrets.” Then you had the news this summer with the lettuce, the tomatoes, the peppers? As I said before I sued to love pork chops. But not anymore.
And then to top it off if you want to help cut back on global warming stop eating so much red meat–half of the methane the cow produces come out the mouth!
Search the web about how many pounds of animal flesh can be raised on an acre. Pigs are quite inefficient source of meat–but their dung is great fertilizer!
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CWBetts
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To say that the OT dietary laws are in force is false theology
ANd science does NOT support that a vegan diet is healthier. In fact to get a healthy vegan diet takes a great deal of olanning to get the amino acids and trace minerals needed.
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djconklin
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In your judgment what the OT says is “false theology.” I didn’t buy into the Marcion heresy that split the Bible in two.
When I watch the nightly news they frequently report the advantages of eating a vege diet.
“Vegetarian Foods Powerful for Health
Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine”
judgerc.org/Nutrition/Articles/vegetarianfoods.html
If you goto pubs.ama-assn.org/ the web site for the Journal of the American Medical Association and search for “vegetarian” you’ll find a number of articles listed (you have to go to the library to get them–my local library does interlibrary loan free of charge, yours may be different).
There’s no doubt that a vege diet has to be carefully thought out. But, it does work best for your overall health. God knows what’s best for you–after all, He made you!
Kids With High IQs Grow Up to Be VegetariansBy Steven Reinberg
HealthDay Reporter
washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/15/AR2006121500499.html
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RLT
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Pork, it’s faaaaaantastic.
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CWBetts
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To recognize the difference between the Old and New is not heresy! Do you follow the other laws in the OT? Do you still feel adultery should get the death penalty? Do you make sure not to wear clothing made of mixed materials? We are not defiled by what goes int us but by what evils come out.
If vegan dieys are so healthy then why do doctors not reccommend the diet for pregnant or nursing women, or for infants. Quit trying to push you views. I am not saying you must eat pork. In fact I don’t care one way or the other. So stop trying to persuade the rest of us to your diet. It is really no concern of yours what anyone else eats.
If vegan dieys are so healthy then why do doctors not reccommend the diet for pregnant or nursing women, or for infants. Quit trying to push you views. I am not saying you must eat pork. In fact I don’t care one way or the other. So stop trying to persuade the rest of us to your diet. It is really no concern of yours what anyone else eats.
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