Jesus didn't say eat pork.

[djconklin]

Originally Posted by djconklin
We have no proof of that.

well it wasn’t mentioned until Moses.

A little rule from archaeology: the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. We do know that when the animals that went into the Ark, 7 of each clean animal entered. Only two of the unclean.

Who and not what is exactly the point of Peter’s vision. BTW, God said “common” not “unclean.”

Acts 10:15 Acts 10:15 … What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

Acts 10:28 … God hath shewed me that I should not call any man (not food) common or unclean.

Are you so dull?" he (Jesus) asked, "Don’t you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him unclean?

Parroting; “Are you so dull?” I already noted that the food eaten doesn’t make a man unclean. The setting for Christ’s remark was the washing of the dishes. The Pharisees felt the dishes had to be washed just the right way or the food would become unclean.

 

[inJESUS]

A little rule from archaeology: the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. We do know that when the animals that went into the Ark, 7 of each clean animal entered. Only two of the unclean.

am not asking about the existenece of animals. I was sayin that God never mentioned not eating pork and the rest of animals except after Moses.

Parroting; “Are you so dull?” I already noted that the food eaten doesn’t make a man unclean. The setting for Christ’s remark was the washing of the dishes. The Pharisees felt the dishes had to be washed just the right way or the food would become unclean

 

[djconklin]

I was sayin that God never mentioned not eating pork and the rest of animals except after Moses.

What I was saying is that just because it isn’t recorded doesn’t mean that He didn’t. And then given that they knew about unclean and clean at the time of the Flood indicates that they knew at that time for sure–the question is how far back did that knowledge go?

when Jesus responded, he didn’t mention bacteria.

I wasn’t talking about bacteria either.

I thought SDAs prohibit pork consumption, seems am mistaken?

What one eats isn’t one of the fundamental beliefs (adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/index.html). Since our bodies are the temple of the Holy Ghost:

1 Corinthians 6:19 19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

so, SDA’s teach that we are to care for our bodies.

 

[LilyM]

Well, fer cring out loud, I didn’t say that He did. I asked “How often [did Jesus eat fish and lamb]?”

Doesn’t matter how often - as I said earlier, foods were either prohibited or not, none of them were partially restricted or anything.

And logically, being that He didn’t even have a place to lay His head, meaning that He was dependent upon His wealthier friends and supporters, He wouldn’t have been in any position to ever turn up His nose at any food offered to Him, be it meat or vegetable in nature. Beggars can’t be choosers.

The people didn’t ask for vege’s–they wanted meat like they ate while in slavery in Egypt. Besides, its hard to teach a carrot to walk.

Don’t recall them asking for bread specifically - not that the manna could walk either either by the way.

Are you suggesting that God couldn’t and wouldn’t provide them with food that was good for them (including vegetables if need be), and instead provided them with food which (by your logic) would be really bad for their health? Doubt it.

 

[djconklin]

And logically, being that He didn’t even have a place to lay His head, meaning that He was dependent upon His wealthier friends and supporters, He wouldn’t have been in any position to ever turn up His nose at any food offered to Him, be it meat or vegetable in nature. Beggars can’t be choosers.

And how often did they eat meat? How often do we eat meat? The bottom-line then is that some people are arguing for the right to eat some unclean meat maybe once a month.

Are you suggesting that God couldn’t and wouldn’t provide them with food that was good for them (including vegetables if need be), and instead provided them with food which (by your logic) would be really bad for their health? Doubt it.

They asked [whined] ab’t wanting to eat meat. God said okay but it’ll kill you. How many died again? And that was clean meat!

God can provide for all your needs. He has already supplied you with the ability to earn a living. And if you ask for good things He just might do it, if it is according to His will. If ask for something bad for you He just do that to just to teach you a lesson. Of course, if you learn from the mirtakes of others, then you won’t have to take the hard row and learn first-hand. BUMP–ouch!

 

[LilyM]

And how often did they eat meat? How often do we eat meat? The bottom-line then is that some people are arguing for the right to eat some unclean meat maybe once a month.

They asked [whined] ab’t wanting to eat meat. God said okay but it’ll kill you. How many died again? And that was clean meat!

God can provide for all your needs. He has already supplied you with the ability to earn a living. And if you ask for good things He just might do it, if it is according to His will. If ask for something bad for you He just do that to just to teach you a lesson. Of course, if you learn from the mirtakes of others, then you won’t have to take the hard row and learn first-hand. BUMP–ouch!

Rubbish. The whole episode, from Exodus chapter 16:

"2And the whole congregation of the children of Israel murmured against Moses and Aaron in the wilderness:

3And the children of Israel said unto them, Would to God we had died by the hand of the LORD in the land of Egypt, when we sat by the flesh pots, and when we did eat bread to the full; for ye have brought us forth into this wilderness, to kill this whole assembly with hunger." (my emphases)

They do NOT whine about eating meat in the slightest. They whine much more simply about not having enough food full stop - food of any kind. Let’s read the rest of the passage now.

" 4Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.

5And it shall come to pass, that on the sixth day they shall prepare that which they bring in; and it shall be twice as much as they gather daily.

6And Moses and Aaron said unto all the children of Israel, At even, then ye shall know that the LORD hath brought you out from the land of Egypt:

7And in the morning, then ye shall see the glory of the LORD; for that he heareth your murmurings against the LORD: and what are we, that ye murmur against us?

8And Moses said, This shall be, when the LORD shall give you in the evening flesh to eat, and in the morning bread to the full; for that the LORD heareth your murmurings which ye murmur against him: and what are we? your murmurings are not against us, but against the LORD.

9And Moses spake unto Aaron, Say unto all the congregation of the children of Israel, Come near before the LORD: for he hath heard your murmurings.

10And it came to pass, as Aaron spake unto the whole congregation of the children of Israel, that they looked toward the wilderness, and, behold, the glory of the LORD appeared in the cloud.

11And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

12I have heard the murmurings of the children of Israel: speak unto them, saying, At even ye shall eat flesh, and in the morning ye shall be filled with bread; and ye shall know that I am the LORD your God. "

Now point me to the verse God says that eating the quails will be harmful to the Israelites. He doesn’t say so anywhere. Not in Exodus 16 - nor any other chapter of Exodus, nor any other chapter of the Bible.

 

[djconklin]

Yes, indeed, read the whole chapter, not just to verse 12 and try to read every word. Especially the word “flesh” (try 3, 8 and 12). Do you really think that God brought them out into the wilderness without providing food for them so that they were really, really hungry? O, ye of so little faith. Trust in God for He is good and faithful.

 

[severntofall]

I made an error earlier by claiming that produce caused the majority of food illnesses. They cause 1/3rd rather than a majority, largely do to improper preperation techniques (primarily failing to wash hands and food). Spoiled dairy products cause a large number as well. Just an FYI.

 

[djconklin]

I made an error earlier by claiming that produce caused the majority of food illnesses. They cause 1/3rd rather than a majority, largely do to improper preperation techniques (primarily failing to wash hands and food). Spoiled dairy products cause a large number as well. Just an FYI.

That’s sounds more like what we were taught in food safety certification class.

 

[jmcrcia]

Actually after I knew Jesus, I have no heart of wasting animal soul for my stomach anymore. I’ve substantially reduced my beef consumption to around one meal per month, and I’m thinking of completely eliminating that (i.e., becoming vegetarian) one day.

Question, Sam_777: what do you think of all of use who are “wasting animal soul” for our stomachs? Just curious.

I think that this is a rhetorical question. I think that you have made my point for me… its not simply your food preference… it’s something that you are imbuing with religion which is, in reality, simply your preference. I’m not going to engage in verse slinging with you or anyone else because there is no point. This isn’t a religious question or debate.

I don’t have a problem with it being ones preference (I, personally, am not the biggest fan of pork) I do have a problem with it being made into a religious requirement that you believe we should all adhere to.

To reiterate from an earlier post:

My wife had a friend in a tightly controlling relationship where her fiance (a Christian) decided to observe some of the food laws. Suddenly everything she ate became a point of criticism and control. Thankfully she was able to find her way out of that relationship and it didn’t damage her faith too much, but it did take some work to undo the damage. It always seems to be about these food laws whenever I have encountered it. Believe it or not it is beginning to grow in protestant circles, especially in particular denominations.

Ultimately, this is a judgment on the rest of us for “wasting animal soul”. Do some research on all of the food products that contain animal products and you will be surprised. Jello, for example, contains gelatin-- a pig byproduct. Foods with red dye contain cochineal-- a dye produced from insects. BOTH strictly forbidden by the food laws. Yet we consume them on a daily basis.

May I also ask what you do to atone for the “wasted animal soul” that you have already wasted? This is an honest question. And what do you think the rest of us should do? You also said that you knowledge of Jesus drove you to this decision. Do you believe that the rest of us are spiritually lacking because we eat prohibited food products?

 

[djconklin]

Do some research on all of the food products that contain animal products and you will be surprised. Jello, for example, contains gelatin-- a pig byproduct. Foods with red dye contain cochineal-- a dye produced from insects. BOTH strictly forbidden by the food laws. Yet we consume them on a daily basis.

And ask yourself: who tested these things to say that they were safe for us to use? Just last night the news station interviewed a 13 year old girl who found that the chemical (BPB?) that is found in baby bottles is unsafe at half the level the gov’t says is okay!

 

[jmcrcia]

And ask yourself: who tested these things to say that they were safe for us to use? Just last night the news station interviewed a 13 year old girl who found that the chemical (BPB?) that is found in baby bottles is unsafe at half the level the gov’t says is okay!

What does this have to do with religious doctrine? I though we were talking about pork and the food restrictions found in the OT here… not BPB and chemicals found in plastics.

By the way, that’s horrible news about the baby bottles!

 

[LilyM]

Yes, indeed, read the whole chapter, not just to verse 12 and try to read every word. Especially the word “flesh” (try 3, 8 and 12). Do you really think that God brought them out into the wilderness without providing food for them so that they were really, really hungry? O, ye of so little faith. Trust in God for He is good and faithful.

I’ve read the whole chapter - and quoted most of it. Still doesn’t say they hungered for flesh more than for bread.

As for God not letting them starve - no He didn’t, that’s WHY He sent the manna and quails, d’uh. Doesn’t mean He didn’t let them go hungry first so that they’d appreciate it!

The fact that it is His will for all of us to be in the country we’re in doesn’t prevent people in Ethiopia or even the good old USA going hungry, now does it? Remember the plagues upon Egypt were His will too.

 

[djconklin]

What does this have to do with religious doctrine? I though we were talking about pork and the food restrictions found in the OT here… not BPB and chemicals found in plastics.

Some people claim that pork is safe to eat and that the Drano that is used to flush them out must have been approved as safe to use. I question it–I’m a skeptic.

 

[CWBetts]

Some people claim that pork is safe to eat and that the Drano that is used to flush them out must have been approved as safe to use. I question it–I’m a skeptic.

I am not a skeptic, and you are coming across as a fanatic on a crusade. We really aren’t interested in you cramming your ideas down our throats. (No pun intended)

 

[djconklin]

I am not a skeptic,

That’s okay.

and you are coming across as a fanatic on a crusade.

I’m not a fanataic and I’m not on a crusade

We really aren’t interested in you cramming your ideas down our throats. (No pun intended)

Not my ideas; I present facts I’ve learned along the way. I don’t force you to come to this thread nor did I force you to enter into the discussion.

I liked the unintentional pun–that was good!

 

[Sam_777]

May I also ask what you do to atone for the “wasted animal soul” that you have already wasted? This is an honest question. And what do you think the rest of us should do? You also said that you knowledge of Jesus drove you to this decision. Do you believe that the rest of us are spiritually lacking because we eat prohibited food products?

Yes, the knowledge of Jesus drove me to that decision, I will explain that more, during my life I used to make goats sacrifices during Eid Al-Adha (feast of sacrifice), we used to sacrifice one goat for each family member, but since three years back, I have stopped that, I don’t sacrifice animal (for myself) during that Eid, I really can not sustain seeing animals being slaughtered in front of me anymore.

However, regarding the animal souls that I have already wasted, its from the past, before I knew Jesus, so I can’t do anything regarding it.

And regarding you, certainly you are not spiritually lacking because you eat meat, its just my soul which can’t see another soul being slaughtered to fulfil my stomach desire, I always remember Jesus words:
“Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.” (Matthew 4:4).

Unfortunately I will not be able to continue my conversation with you because tomorrow we are starting our official Eid-Aladha holiday here in SA, so I will be off for around a week or so.

 

[dzheremi]

Eid mubarak, Sam.

It is good to consider the animals you eat, even if you have no intention of quitting meat. When I ask the Lord to bless my meals before eating, it is partly to give thanks for the physical sustainance, but also a form of spiritual sustainance by recognizing that when I eat, I am partaking of God’s creation. God provides for us in infinite ways, and this particular way is so immediate that it feels wrong to me not to recognize it by asking Him to bless His creation in this “new” form, made possible by the creativity He has also blessed us with. This is true for all meals, regardless of diet. Remember God in all that you do and be blessed. Any other arguments should take a back seat to that, right?

 

[Luke65]

And people thought this was about the Catholic Church… :tsktsk:

1 Timothy 4
1The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 3They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. 4For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.
6If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed. 7Have nothing to do with godless myths and old wives’ tales; rather, train yourself to be godly.
(NIV)

I have pointed it out!

 

[djconklin]

Check your food!

Tainted Irish pork may have reached 25 nations

news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081207/ts_nm/us_ireland_food_recall

“Irish pig meat contaminated with toxic dioxins could have been exported to as many as 25 countries, including France and the Netherlands, Irish government officials said on Sunday.”

How did the dioxins get into the feed?!?