Jesus didn't stay dead. So what real sacrifice was there?

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“Your thumb won’t stay swollen after I hit it with a hammer. So may I?”

:roll_eyes:
 
Jesus is the only human who had a life to give. We are all destined to die. Jesus chose to die. He wouldn’t have if we didn’t kill Him. That puts His death on a different level. It wasn’t a matter of when like us but a matter of will or will not.

I didn’t intend to single you out Catholic☺ I’m just inexperienced with the mobile app
 
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A sacrifice is when you kill something and offer it to God, or destroy something by fire and offer it to God. But if you kill the thing, offer some to God, and eat some, that’s also a sacrifice.

Jesus got eaten in the Last Supper, killed, and offered. He is still being offered and eaten. Coming back to life, being the one Who offers the sacrifice, and being God to Whom the sacrifice was offered, are details that make the sacrifice more important and powerful, not less.
 
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The point is that Jesus conquered death. And those who follow the path Jesus forged , will also resurrect With glorified bodies on the last day. That path us the way if the cross, death to the old self, and a new life in Christ.
 
In my experience, Atheists do not believe that Christ arose, at best they believe he was a good man who lived in 1st Century Palestine, so they would not ask this question.
 
EloyCraft said:
Jesus is the only human who had a life to give.
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Not so…

"My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.
Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends
You are my friends if you do what I command." - JESUS
 
@EloyCraft . . .
Jesus is the only human who had a life to give.
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.

Thank you @EndTimes.

I was just going to post that but I see you beat me to it.

No greater love hath he, than who lays down his life for his friends.
Many soldiers have done this.

Martyrs of course have done this for their love of Christ.
 
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Jesus being God is the source of our life and chose death. He didn’t deserve it as we do. He wouldn’t have experienced death if we didn’t end His earthly life with death. He is the only human who had a life to give in that His body was (is) immortal.
 
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Cathoholic said:
No greater love hath he, than who lays down his life for his friends.
Many soldiers have done this.

Martyrs of course have done this for their love of Christ.
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Yet Jesus asked the Father for the cup to pass. Would it be reasonable to think He was asking to have the timing changed or the circumstances to be less painful? Jesus sweat blood many have faced death without that kind of anxiety.
 
EloyCraft . . . .
Yet Jesus asked the Father for the cup to pass.
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Do you think this means people do not have lives?
Or that because of this, people do not have lives that they can lay down for a friend??

Here again is what you said . . . .
Jesus is the only human who had a life to give.
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Look. You probably just meant Jesus had the ULTIMATE life to give. In which case you are correct.

But people have life and lives.

Yes it comes from God to be sure.
 
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The fact is, he really did die.

That he did not remain dead means that we won’t have to either.

Now ask the atheist to do the penance that I heard that a priest once gave:

Stand in front of a crucifix at the altar and quietly whisper ten times, "You did that for me, and I don’t give a d—.
 
Guest1 said:
Jesus didn’t stay dead. So what real sacrifice was there?
How would you answer for example an Atheist asking that?
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I’d simply say the sacrifice was in dying – not in staying dead forever!
Deal with subsequent objections if, or as, they are raised.

Not necessarily for your hypothetical atheist, but just some added thoughts. Jesus came in order to conquer the death our human nature became subject to as a result of Adam’s sin. His resurrection manifests His victory. Had He remained dead, it would have meant His sacrifice had failed - that He had been unable to conquer death. Mankind would then still be subject to eternal death.
Thus, St. Paul’s teaching in 1 Corinthians 15: 12-23: “… But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ has not been raised; if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain. …”
 
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Why do I smell the Docetism heresy. The Christ has cometh in the flesh, so what about (not spiritually relevant but it helps with the point) Nelson Mandela going to jail for Apartheid did that not show a sacrifice itself. It’s just not right to say that Jesus coming back to life means that there’s no sacrifice. So, you also question if Christ really carried our sins on his cross too, and that he never died for our sins and that we are all damned. Just Google Docetism it helps show what your asking in a different way.
 
Cathoholic said:
Do you think this means people do not have lives?
Or that because of this, people do not have lives that they can lay down for a friend??
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Do you really think that is what a reasonable person would think?
 
AdamP88 said:
In any case, debating theology with an atheist tends to go nowhere, in my experience they often purposely misunderstand or misconstrue elements of theological teaching without thinking about it.
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As they say, for those who believe, no explanation is necessary; for those who don’t believe, no explanation is possible.

So, I would stay completely out of that conversation.
 
Taking on all the sins of man and facing the wrath of God for those sins for you if you trust in him . So that when you face God for Judgement he sees the sacrifice not your sin. Nobody is pure enough without it to enter heaven.
He laid down his life for his friends which is the greatest act of love.
His life was a sacrifice not only his death.

Maybe I am wrong but thats what comes to me.
 
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That’s very interesting, JimG. Apparently studies have been done where atheists are asked to say things like, "God, please do something bad to my (loved one) where “something bad” is spelled out, and the atheists, if they balk, are then told, “who cares if you say this? You think there’s no God to listen!”

Apparently a very significant segment of the atheist subjects can’t or won’t say the words they’re asked to recite.
 
EloyCraft said:
Jesus being God is the source of our life and chose death. He didn’t deserve it as we do. He wouldn’t have experienced death if we didn’t end His earthly life with death. He is the only human who had a life to give in that His body was (is) immortal.
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Jesus is the Word / Son of God … who had existed with the Father in Heaven

Deserve is not a focus - rather, a necessity with regard to Redeeming Man and God

Incarnate Via God’s Spirit and Human Mary Means … His body is a Human body - Mortal - which did Die. .

Accepted the Sacrifice - Offered and Asked - necessary to Conquer Death…
is the operative

He Obediently followed it through… And thus Resurrected.
Which thus opened the Door to the Resurrection of all who’ll freely Will to be with God
 
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