Jesus died in India

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eleonardo said:
What if “prophet Kellie” would tell you another thing. Would you believe her? I’m sure she could even write you a nice book if you ask nicely 🙂
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Hi
Kellie is free to differ with me but I would like her to give a Criteria as asked by me in my post # 33, I copy here the relevent passage from it:
“It is mentioned there (NTBible) that Jesus promised to show **Sign of Jonah **to the Jews. So to know some more clear account of Jesus’ life, I find it a **common ground **to present the account of Jonah in my discusssions here. Suppose, if you had been in Ninevah when Jonah presented himself before his people that Jonah was a ProphetMessenger of GodAllahYHWH. If you would have accepted him; on what criteria? If you would have not accepted him,most probably you might have not accepted him; on what criteria?”
There is however no compulsion for her to answer my post in question, as we are not debating anyway.
If she opted to answer, she should answer with references from OTBible as to the Claim and Reason. We would all discuss that the Criteria is a fair one for all times.
Thanks

The problem here with some of my Christian friends is that they don’t let God speak for himself. If they would have done it they would find a straight passage from the OTBible on every important issue, if Bible is a living book that answers every rational question. When they don’t get support from the Bible, they think they are wiser than God, so they try putting words into God’s mouth first for the Claim and then for the Reason which is usually not found there. One is left wondering if the Christian God is living and All-Wise or He has delegated His powers to them.
 
paarsurrey:

You have yet to provide separate lines of historical or archaeological evidence to support the contention that Jesus went to India.

Separate lines of secular historical and archaeologic evidence exist to support OT and NT Scripture (and yes, there are sometimes apparent discrepancies), but nonetheless they are there.

So, outside of any doctrinal [or dogmatic] documents, what separate lines of evidence exist to support the claim that Jesus went to India? To my knowledge and research, there are none. Just as there are none to support Jesus went to Japan or to the Americas.
 
Hi! my Christian friends.
Further to my post # 35 on this thread.
I give here headings of the chapters of the book Jesus in India to let you have an idea about the contents and sources on the subject:-
INTRODUCTION
This explains as to the situation on ground when this book was written. I have already given first few lines from it in my earlier post.
CHAPTER 1
(Provides the evidence from NTBible)
CHAPTER 2
On the evidence of the Holy Quran
and authentic traditions in proof
of Jesus’ survival
CHAPTER 3
On the evidence derived from
books of medicine
CHAPTER 4
Evidence from books of history
As the following chapter contains evidence of various kinds, it is divided for the sake of clearness of sequence into several sections, which are set out below.
SECTION 1
Evidence from Islamic books which contain
a mention of Jesus’ journey
SECTION 2
Evidence from books on Buddhism
SECTION 3
On the evidence from books of history
which show that the coming of Jesus to
the Punjab and neighboring territories was inevitable
ISRAELITISH TRACES
MAP OF JESUS TRAVELS is also included in the book.
You might like to read the book freely at
alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/index.html
on the official Website of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community
Thanks

The first and primary source on Jesus did not die on Cross and later died naturally is the pristine Word of God revealed on the PromisedMessiahImamMahdi.
 
quantumDeus said:
paarsurrey:

You have yet to provide separate lines of historical or archaeological evidence to support the contention that Jesus went to India.
Separate lines of secular historical and archaeologic evidence exist to support OT and NT Scripture (and yes, there are sometimes apparent discrepancies), but nonetheless they are there.
So, outside of any doctrinal [or dogmatic] documents, what separate lines of evidence exist to support the claim that Jesus went to India? To my knowledge and research, there are none. Just as there are none to support Jesus went to Japan or to the Americas.
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Hi
You may like to read Chapter 3 to the end of the book mentioned in my previous post
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi
You may like to read Chapter 3 to the end of the book mentioned in my previous post
Click to expand...
The challenge was to provide separate lines of evidence. You cannot rely on a circular proof. So outside of the dogmatic and doctrinal works propogated by this sect, what historical evidence supports it? What archaeological evidence? What writings of the early Church? You’d think, handing over the keys to Peter, He might have said, “Here you go, Pete. The keys. Take my church for a spin and don’t dent the chrome. Oh, by the way. I’m going India next.”
“India, master? Chrome?”
“Never mind, Pete. You’ll discover them both soon enough.”

I’m sure it was in the Gospel according to Judas. Except he sold it off for 30 pieces of silver or something. In any event, we certainly have no Scriptural reference to this.
 
quantumDeus said:
The challenge was to provide separate lines of evidence. You cannot rely on a circular proof. So outside of the dogmatic and doctrinal works propogated by this sect, what historical evidence supports it? What archaeological evidence? What writings of the early Church? You’d think, handing over the keys to Peter, He might have said, “Here you go, Pete. The keys. Take my church for a spin and don’t dent the chrome. Oh, by the way. I’m going India next.”
“India, master? Chrome?”
“Never mind, Pete. You’ll discover them both soon enough.”

I’m sure it was in the Gospel according to Judas. Except he sold it off for 30 pieces of silver or something. In any event, we certainly have no Scriptural reference to this.
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Or it could be that those Jesuses who went to India/Japan/America are actually different Jesuses who happened to have the same name as Jesus (Yeshua).
They were great people in their own right, but as time passed, THE Yeshua of Nazareth became known and these people were mistaken for Him.

After all, Josephus mentioned there were a few Jesuses (30 or less) living in Palestine at the time of Jesus.

Perhaps a farmer set out to escape some unpaid debt in his farm, ending up in Japan, where he discovered rice and learned to cultivate it.

Perhaps a Hellenized guy went to India to study the wonders of the Orient where he studied a lot of philosophical treatises and was hailed as a wise man.

Perhaps a Christian convert with the same name as he (Yeshua) intended to go to Spain (Tarshish) but the boat went further than intended and he ended up in America where he preached to the American Indians.

Now that I have presented my strange theory, back to the serious discussion…
 
quantumDeus said:
The challenge was to provide separate lines of evidence.
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Hi
In a way the challenge has already been accepted by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908 the PromisedMessiahImamMahdi, as he provided the material desired by you in the book “Jesus in India” suggested by me. Since you gave the challenge, please read it. Please don’t convert, and hold on to your faith steadfastly; may be it is vulnerable.
Thanks

The first and primary source on Jesus did not die on Cross and later died naturally is the pristine Word of God revealed on the PromisedMessiahImamMahdi.
 
patrick457 said:
It could be that those Jesuses who went to India/Japan/America are actually different Jesuses who happened to have the same name as Jesus (Yeshua).
Click to expand...
Hi
Is there any harm in reading the book suggested by me and then to comment on it? That would be more useful, I think.
Thanks

The first and primary source on Jesus did not die on Cross and later died naturally is the pristine Word of God revealed on the PromisedMessiahImamMahdi.
 
Having followed the link, I read part of chapter one.

First, the work is based on Islam’s interpretation of Scripture and notion of Jesus. Which is errrant to begin with: they do not ascribe to Jesus his divine nature.

So this book extends and expounds upon a book already errant (the Qur’an).

Again, there is no historical evidence that such was the case. Nor does history bear out that the 10 “lost” tribes of Israel went there either. The Mormons have the same hurdle to cross with their assertion that a lost tribe went to the Americas, as did Jesus.

Feel free to believe in it, but it is historically and theologically drivel. Perhaps the British had the author laboring in the sun too long? Who knows. In any event, I see much conjecture but no evidence.
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi
Kellie is free to differ with me but I would like her to give a Criteria as asked by me in my post # 33, I copy here the relevent passage from it:
“It is mentioned there (NTBible) that Jesus promised to show **Sign of Jonah **to the Jews. So to know some more clear account of Jesus’ life, I find it a **common ground **to present the account of Jonah in my discusssions here. Suppose, if you had been in Ninevah when Jonah presented himself before his people that Jonah was a ProphetMessenger of GodAllahYHWH. If you would have accepted him; on what criteria? If you would have not accepted him,most probably you might have not accepted him; on what criteria?”
There is however no compulsion for her to answer my post in question, as we are not debating anyway.
If she opted to answer, she should answer with references from OTBible as to the Claim and Reason. We would all discuss that the Criteria is a fair one for all times.
Thanks

The problem here with some of my Christian friends is that they don’t let God speak for himself. If they would have done it they would find a straight passage from the OTBible on every important issue, if Bible is a living book that answers every rational question. When they don’t get support from the Bible, they think they are wiser than God, so they try putting words into God’s mouth first for the Claim and then for the Reason which is usually not found there. One is left wondering if the Christian God is living and All-Wise or He has delegated His powers to them.
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Sorry paarsurrey but I am debating whether you like that term or not. That is what this is all about.

Anyway, why do you keep referring to the OT?

Jesus IS the Word, I have said it a million times. There is no need for me to explain to you why I would believe Jonah.

We know what Jesus did, and who He was, by His words and His actions. He is the Living Gospel. He is God.

He performed miracles, the greatest of these being His Resurrection.

He fulfilled all prophecies.

What has Ahmad in 1899 done to prove he is a prophet other than say “I am a prophet”?
 
Kellie:

The late 1800s saw a plethora of revivalist movements started (particularly in the US). The approaching milennium was a concern, and many were convinced it was the End Times (e.g., Russell, Joseph Smith, et al.).

I suspect it was no different elsewhere, particularly in a region where British influence was heavy.

Another poster made a valid point: all that is sufficient is that to be the Prophet Kellie, all you need is a book and a soapbox. Someone is bound to listen and take your “wisdom” to heart. The JW’s Russell managed to get by on a 7th grade education.
 
kellie said:
Anyway, why do you keep referring to the OT?
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Hi
Quran, you don’t believe in so it is no use to quote verses from Quran before a Catholic. Jesus neither left any Stone Tablets (like Moses, though they claim that Jesus was a ProphetMessenger like Moses) containing Word from GodAllahYHWH, nor any biography written by himself or anything else authenticated by him; the scribes who wrote something by themselves couldn’t be trusted as they all deserted Jesus in the hour of need .Since I love Jesus (and Mary and respect those who follow him) and Jesus so often quoted from OTBible, so it is a common ground between Catholics and the Muslims. I think that answers your query.
Thanks

The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of peaceful and human loving Muhammad and his religion Islam and Islam of PromisedMessiahImamMahdi is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking moral and peaceful.
 
Hi
Further to my post #43 , I give here prevace of the book “Jesus in India”
This is an English version of an Urdu treatise written by the Holy Founder of the Ahmadiyya Movement in Islam, Hadrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (1835-1908). The theme is the escape of Jesus from death on the cross, and his journey to India in search of the lost tribes of Israel. Christian as well as Muslim scriptures, and old medical and historical books including ancient Buddhist records, provide evidence about this journey. Jesus is shown to have reached Afghanistan, and to have met the Jews who had settled there after deliverance from the bondage of Nebuchadnezzar. From Afghanistan Jesus went on to Kashmir, where other Israelite tribes had settled. There he made his home, and there in time he died; his tomb has been found in Srinagar.
Electronic version by www.alislam.org
Thanks
 
Muslims and Christians disagree over most things. How about we just live and let live for now, shall we? You told them your personal idea, and they didn’t like it. Don’t continue to shove it down their throats.
 
blacktiger057 said:
Muslims and Christians disagree over most things. How about we just live and let live for now, shall we? You told them your personal idea, and they didn’t like it. Don’t continue to shove it down their throats.
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Are you talking to both sides? If one side, which one???
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi
Further to my post #43 , I give here prevace of the book “Jesus in India”
This is an English version of an Urdu treatise written by the Holy Founder of the Ahmadiyya Movement in Islam, Hadrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (1835-1908). The theme is the escape of Jesus from death on the cross, and his journey to India in search of the lost tribes of Israel. Christian as well as Muslim scriptures, and old medical and historical books including ancient Buddhist records, provide evidence about this journey. Jesus is shown to have reached Afghanistan, and to have met the Jews who had settled there after deliverance from the bondage of Nebuchadnezzar. From Afghanistan Jesus went on to Kashmir, where other Israelite tribes had settled. There he made his home, and there in time he died; his tomb has been found in Srinagar.
Electronic version by www.alislam.org
Thanks
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Do you want a prove that Jesus did died in the cross and resurected?
Would you care about what im about to say to you or would you just reply regardless of it ?

well The shroud of Turin is the shroud in which Jesus resurected. this shroud has microscopic pollen of the 1st century that only existed in palestine, and this kind of polen got extingueshed.

**The NASA made studied on the shroud of Turin this studied claim that the image of a human shape within it was made by pure radiation.

every microsopic point in the image of an human shape in the shroud is more burned with radiation on the palces that have more contact with the body rahter than the palces that dosent have contact with it.**

this shroud is very old and It was venerated by many emperors and was of extremly importance, it has been more than 1000 years in europe.

therefore if you can udnerstand this is a prove of our faith however we believe in our faith without seeing this stuffs, this relics are not our faith but they are scientific relic that confirm our faith.

Now the shroud is exibithed in Turin.

No painting can have a 3d image of radiation.

this is the pic of the exams of the NASA:
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi
Though there is nothing available with my Christian friends that has been authored by JesusYeshua himself or by GodAllahYHWH and given to Jesus unlike Moses who got they say something wirtten in the tablets he received from GodAllahYHWH. When Jesus left from Galilee in search of the lost ten tribes of the house of Israel, perhaps he was angry with his disciples who deserted him on Cross, he did not leave anything authenticated by him. We could only know a very hazy account of his life from the NTGospels, please don’t mind. It is mentioned there that Jesus promised to show Sign of Jonah to the Jews. So to know some more clear account of Jesus’ life, I find it a common ground to present the account of Jonah in my discusssions here. Suppose, if you had been in Ninevah when Jonah presented himself before his people that Jonah was a ProphetMessenger of GodAllahYHWH. If you would have accepted him; on what criteria? If you would have not accepted him,most probably you might have not accepted him; on what criteria?
Thanks

The problem here with some of my Christian friends is that they don’t let God speak for himself. If they would have done it they would find a straight passage from the OTBible on every important issue, if Bible is a living book that answers every rational question. When they don’t get support from the Bible, they think they are wiser than God, so they try putting words into God’s mouth first for the Claim and then for the Reason which is usually not found there. One is left wondering if the Christian God is living and All-Wise or He has delegated His powers to them.
Click to expand...
Jesus did not go in search of any lost tribes of Israel.
The sign of Jonah was the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

“For just as Jonah was tree days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster,so for three days and three nights the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth.” Matthew 12,40.
 
jimmy85 said:
The shroud of Turin is the shroud in which Jesus resurected. this shroud has microscopic pollen of the 1st century that only existed in palestine, and this kind of polen got extingueshed.

**The NASA made studied on the shroud of Turin this studied claim that the image of a human shape within it was made by pure radiation.

every microsopic point in the image of an human shape in the shroud is more burned with radiation on the palces that have more contact with the body rahter than the palces that dosent have contact with it.**

this shroud is very old and It was venerated by many emperors and was of extremly importance, it has been more than 1000 years in europe.

therefore if you can udnerstand this is a prove of our faith however we believe in our faith without seeing this stuffs, this relics are not our faith but they are scientific relic that confirm our faith.
Click to expand...
Hi
First: Doyou believe that Shroud of Turin is genuine?
Second: Do you belive that the picture obtained through radiation by Nasa is that of JesusYeshuaIssa?
Third: I uderstand that there are blood spots on the Shroud. Do you believe that the blood is genuinely of JesusYeshuaIss? Have the checked the DNA of this blood, with other relics of Jesus?
Foruth: You yourself are in doubt about the stuff of Nasa and do not base your belief on that; so how logically you want me to base my belief on this stuff, you yourself reject. Is that fair from you?
Thanks for participating in the discussion, and please don’t mind my little queries in this connection. This is only a quest for truth, you need not convert.
Thanks

The first and primary source on “Jesus did not die on Cross” and later died naturally is the pristine Word of God revealed on the PromisedMessiahImamMahdi 1835-1908.
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi
First: Doyou believe that Shroud of Turin is genuine?
Second: Do you belive that the picture obtained through radiation by Nasa is that of JesusYeshuaIssa?
Third: I uderstand that there are blood spots on the Shroud. Do you believe that the blood is genuinely of JesusYeshuaIss? Have the checked the DNA of this blood, with other relics of Jesus?
Foruth: You yourself are in doubt about the stuff of Nasa and do not base your belief on that; so how logically you want me to base my belief on this stuff, you yourself reject. Is that fair from you?
Thanks for participating in the discussion, and please don’t mind my question. This is only a quest for truth, you need not convert.
Thanks

The first and primary source on “Jesus did not die on Cross” and later died naturally is the pristine Word of God revealed on the PromisedMessiahImamMahdi 1835-1908.
Click to expand...
1.yes
2.yes
3.yes it is blood type AB, it was compared with another relic actually, I think it was The Sudarium of Oviedo, they were both AB type.
4.no, I dont doubt about it at all.

If someone is a catholic, he dosent have to believe in the shroud of Turin if he dosent want to.
He must just believe in the dogmas of the chruch in order to be catholic.

good nite
 
BelFarfalla said:
Are you talking to both sides? If one side, which one???
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This time I’m talking about kellie continueing to rat on people for their beliefs. But ofcourse we(Christians) aren’t the only ones who do this.
 
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