Jesus' divinity

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I am having an argument with my wife. She claims that Jesus never said he was God. I have tried to point out to her that he says “I AM” which was how God identified himself to Moses in the burning bush.
ie Luke 22:70. My wife says that is a clue and that he never said it 100% clearly.

I am saying that everyone knew what the term “I AM” meant.

Can anyone help us with this argument? My wife is a devout Catholic and believes in Jesus’ divinity. Its just that she believes that Jesus would undermine his credibility if he came right out and proclaimed his divinity. She says that even when he responded to Simon Peter’s response to “who do you say I am” that he does not come out and directly state it. She says this is typical of the way Christ handles questions of his divinity.

This is a friendly argument - its more that we want clarification on this issue:)
 
In John 18, the soldiers come to arrest him and they ask Jesus if he is Jesus the Nazorean…and he says I AM…and the soldiers turned and fell to the ground.
To me, you ought to be able to draw a very powerful conclusion from that.
 
Thanks Turtle18 - I always thought that was because these Temple soldiers were so astonished that He admitted that He was Jesus the Nazorean, as opposed to an adminssion of His divinity. It also seems to me that if they realized He was God, and fall on their faces, but then go on to arrest him that there is a logical disconnect here.

Am I off base?
 
In John 8:56, Jesus says something to the effect that Abraham saw His day - in other words that He was alive at the same time as Abraham. Those who hear Him rightly point out that this is impossible - physically He wasn’t even 50 years old. He then says ‘before Abraham was, I AM.’

He is claiming to pre-exist Abraham. In other words to be God, as it was only AS God that Jesus could exist before His birth into human form. And note the change of verb tense, too - ‘Abraham was … I AM’. It’s all pointing to something, but to what? Could only be that name which God took for Himself when He spoke to Moses - I AM>

Those around Him realise the significance of His words, that this is in fact exactly what He IS claiming, to be God, and take up stones to stone Him. If He wasn’t claiming to be God why the attempt to stone Him for His blasphemy?
 
hilarycotter said:
Thanks Turtle18 - I always thought that was because these Temple soldiers were so astonished that He admitted that He was Jesus the Nazorean, as opposed to an adminssion of His divinity. It also seems to me that if they realized He was God, and fall on their faces, but then go on to arrest him that there is a logical disconnect here.

Am I off base?
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At the risk of sounding blunt, totally. 😃

He called Himself ‘son of Man’ often enough, there would be no surprise at all in Him admitting that He was human, so no stunned reaction from them for a mere admission of humanity.

And where does it say they didn’t fall on their faces anyway?

And their reaction is totally logical. After His revealing His divinity they were probably expecting to be punished for daring to come to arrest Him.

When, after a few moments, it became apparent that He wasn’t about to strike them dead and in fact would go willingly with them, then they did as all soldiers are very well trained to do - follow orders! So they arrested Him.

No logical disconnect.
 
hilarycotter said:
I am having an argument with my wife. She claims that Jesus never said he was God. I have tried to point out to her that he says “I AM” which was how God identified himself to Moses in the burning bush.
ie Luke 22:70. My wife says that is a clue and that he never said it 100% clearly.

I am saying that everyone knew what the term “I AM” meant.

Can anyone help us with this argument? My wife is a devout Catholic and believes in Jesus’ divinity. Its just that she believes that Jesus would undermine his credibility if he came right out and proclaimed his divinity. She says that even when he responded to Simon Peter’s response to “who do you say I am” that he does not come out and directly state it. She says this is typical of the way Christ handles questions of his divinity.

This is a friendly argument - its more that we want clarification on this issue:)
Click to expand...
Mark 14:61 But he was silent and made no answer. Again the high priest asked him, “Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?” 14:62 And Jesus said, "I am; and you will see the Son of man seated at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven." 14:63 And the high priest tore his garments, and said, "Why do we still need witnesses? 14:64 You have heard his blasphemy.

John 10:30 "I and the Father are one."

John 14:8-10 Philip said to him, “Lord, show us the Father, and we shall be satisfied.” Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you do not know me, Philip? He who has seen me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the father’? Do you not believe that I am in the father and the Father in me? …”
 
LilyM and Turtle 18 you refer me to John 18:8 where Jesus asks the question “Whom do you seek?” Jesus the Nazorean, and He responds “I am HE.” Not “I AM”

I don’t see how this is a pronouncement of His divinity - although I Turtle 18 when you first referred me to this passage I remembered it at I AM. Now I have looked it up it does read I AM HE.

So now I am baffled by why the temple soldiers fell to the ground.

My wife’s argument is that Jesus never public ally mentioned His divinity.

She has found this link which seems to substantiate her case.

answering-islam.org/Shamoun/q_jesus_claiming_deity.htm

I’ll work my way through the rest of these excellent responses soon - especially the Catechetics Online one:)

Thanks again.
 
OK, my wife admits He says I AM, and he is quoting what God calls Himself to Moses, but she says Jesus never explicitly says in public “I am God”.

Great arguments Nita, but they don’t convince her:)
 
Yea, Jesus definitely call himself God. Thats why the priests pick up stones and try to kill him. Chapter 8. Something like “Before Abraham was, I AM”. (can’t remember it exactly)

A bit more complex, but you could also try convincing her of all the times Jesus says something like “I am…”. Like “I am the light” etc. These, when taken in the context of John’s prologue, also equate Jesus with God.
 
Nita and CapIV - great answers. I think these should be enough to convince most people - however my wife can’t get beyond the fact that He never comes right out and says “I am God.”’

I think this is a pointless argument, but I do appreciate all of your answers:)
 
hilarycotter said:
I am having an argument with my wife. She claims that Jesus never said he was God. I have tried to point out to her that he says “I AM” which was how God identified himself to Moses in the burning bush.
ie Luke 22:70. My wife says that is a clue and that he never said it 100% clearly.

I am saying that everyone knew what the term “I AM” meant.

Can anyone help us with this argument? My wife is a devout Catholic and believes in Jesus’ divinity. Its just that she believes that Jesus would undermine his credibility if he came right out and proclaimed his divinity. She says that even when he responded to Simon Peter’s response to “who do you say I am” that he does not come out and directly state it. She says this is typical of the way Christ handles questions of his divinity.

This is a friendly argument - its more that we want clarification on this issue:)
Click to expand...
Maybe her premise is all wrong. "Its just that she believes that Jesus would undermine his credibility if he came right out and proclaimed His divinity. He did not tell them because He wanted them to tell Him. Jesus gradually did this because in that time the majesty of God was grasped more profoundly. To simply announce or proclaim who He was would have shattered them. Today we tend to treat God as an equal or our best bud. Not so, not so, not so.

Peace,
DCD
 
hilarycotter said:
Nita and CapIV - great answers. I think these should be enough to convince most people - however my wife can’t get beyond the fact that He never comes right out and says “I am God.”’

I think this is a pointless argument, but I do appreciate all of your answers:)
Click to expand...
Maybe also point out that literally saying “I am God”, is not something that would have been said at the time. In fact, many Jewish sects discouraged even speaking the name EL or YHWH aloud.
 
hilarycotter said:
Nita and CapIV - great answers. I think these should be enough to convince most people - however my wife can’t get beyond the fact that He never comes right out and says “I am God.”’

I think this is a pointless argument, but I do appreciate all of your answers:)
Click to expand...
Your wife of course is right - Jesus never says the specific words “I am God”. I sure hope however that it doesn’t prevent her from believing that He is God.

Nita
 
hilarycotter said:
LilyM and Turtle 18 you refer me to John 18:8 where Jesus asks the question “Whom do you seek?” Jesus the Nazorean, and He responds “I am HE.” Not “I AM”

I don’t see how this is a pronouncement of His divinity - although I Turtle 18 when you first referred me to this passage I remembered it at I AM. Now I have looked it up it does read I AM HE.

So now I am baffled by why the temple soldiers fell to the ground.

My wife’s argument is that Jesus never public ally mentioned His divinity.

She has found this link which seems to substantiate her case.

answering-islam.org/Shamoun/q_jesus_claiming_deity.htm

I’ll work my way through the rest of these excellent responses soon - especially the Catechetics Online one:)

Thanks again.
Click to expand...
Not at all - I referred you to an entirely separate incident at John EIGHT (not eighteen), verse 56 where Jesus proclaims that He existed before Abraham.
 
Here is a link to the verse
usccb.org/nab/bible/john/john18.htm

I thought Jesus was displaying His divine power & then relinquishes in order to show that He is allowing this to happen–He is in control. Just by saying “I AM” it makes the soldiers fall to the ground. Just as it did to Moses in the OT.
Then He allows the soldiers to arrest him.
 
hilarycotter said:
Thanks Turtle18 - I always thought that was because these Temple soldiers were so astonished that He admitted that He was Jesus the Nazorean, as opposed to an adminssion of His divinity. It also seems to me that if they realized He was God, and fall on their faces, but then go on to arrest him that there is a logical disconnect here.

Am I off base?
Click to expand...
I don’t know if they fell because He said He was the Jesus they were looking for, but as you say how could they have believed He was God and then arrest Him? I don’t know.

Maybe they thought He was lying or plain wrong? Maybe they couldnt explain why they fell back but they decided to arrest Him anyway.
 
LilyM said:
In John 8:56, Jesus says something to the effect that Abraham saw His day - in other words that He was alive at the same time as Abraham. Those who hear Him rightly point out that this is impossible - physically He wasn’t even 50 years old. He then says ‘before Abraham was, I AM.’

He is claiming to pre-exist Abraham. In other words to be God, as it was only AS God that Jesus could exist before His birth into human form. And note the change of verb tense, too - ‘Abraham was … I AM’. It’s all pointing to something, but to what? Could only be that name which God took for Himself when He spoke to Moses - I AM>

Those around Him realise the significance of His words, that this is in fact exactly what He IS claiming, to be God, and take up stones to stone Him. If He wasn’t claiming to be God why the attempt to stone Him for His blasphemy?
Click to expand...
How come the accusers at the trial never accused Jesus of claiming to be God then? At other times previously though, they claimed that Jesus was “making Himself equal to God” (John 5:18).
 
Nita said:
Your wife of course is right - Jesus never says the specific words “I am God”. I sure hope however that it doesn’t prevent her from believing that He is God.

Nita
Click to expand...
Why are we always looking for words? Actions speaks louder than words! This is the very reason why Jesus kept asking the Jewish priests why they don’t believe Him after all those actions and miracles and signs. Jesus don’t need to say it for Himself but rather others has to say it for Him (John the Baptist for example). Just like you don’t shout on the street, “I love God” or “I am a good (wo)man.” You act it out not say it.

By the way, if God would say it to a person they would surely tremble in fear (or even die in realization) just what the Israelites did when He told them the 10 Commandments. What happened to the guards in the tomb after realizing that Jesus is God that beautiful Easter?
 
DCD said:
Maybe her premise is all wrong. "Its just that she believes that Jesus would undermine his credibility if he came right out and proclaimed His divinity. He did not tell them because He wanted them to tell Him. Jesus gradually did this because in that time the majesty of God was grasped more profoundly. To simply announce or proclaim who He was would have shattered them. Today we tend to treat God as an equal or our best bud. Not so, not so, not so.

Peace,
DCD
Click to expand...
:amen: :gopray2:
 
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