Jesus downgraded by Muhammed from Lord to least prophet.

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Booklover:
You claim to love Jesus and accuse him of being a pedophile, war monger, philanderer and liar? :eek:

Vickie

Planten is in urgent need of a long holiday.
 
Sam_777 said:
I agree, it seems the problem that Allah in Quran is judging Jesus based on the minority of the Arabs in Mecca (assuming they were really worshipping Mary during that time), but how come he neglect the majority of Christians outside Arabian peninsula !!!
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Dear brother,

That is why we should not blame Muhammad for lack of knowledge about the “other” world outside his perimeter at that time. But, when that lack of knowledge were put down in the book called as dictated by Jibril, then we know that it is not really from God.
 
Does the Quran ever make a distinction between Christians and Jews that are in right relationship with God and Christians and Jews that are in error?
 
Angelos said:
Planten is in urgent need of a long holiday.
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I did not reply to you or to the booklover. But the words have hurt you quickly.Did you read what your loving christian friend had written about Muhammad? Then go and read those abusive words. Then I told that abusive poster (or imposter) that the same words of peodophile etc belong to him only and not to Muhammad or Jesus.

Be reasonable. I am not afraid of holidays. But it is very bad of all of you not to take notice of that highly biased person who abused prophet Muhammad. You should advise such persons yourself.

As you would not like Jesus to be abused, similarly the Muslims do not like Muhammad to be abused. But if you insist that your group will abuse Muhamamd then we can easily leave this forum.

Not only has a companion of you people unjustly attacked our prophet on thi forum but you (and booklover) are joining hands with that fellow and trying to threaten me. Is that your love that Jesus has taught you? First you have to be a just minded person before you can love any one. Please see to that. Thanks.
 
planten said:
I did not reply to you or to the booklover. But the words have hurt you quickly.Did you read what your loving christian friend had written about Muhammad? Then go and read those abusive words. Then I told that abusive poster (or imposter) that the same words of peodophile etc belong to him only and not to Muhammad or Jesus.

Be reasonable. I am not afraid of holidays. But it is very bad of all of you not to take notice of that highly biased person who abused prophet Muhammad. You should advise such persons yourself.

As you would not like Jesus to be abused, similarly the Muslims do not like Muhammad to be abused. But if you insist that your group will abuse Muhamamd then we can easily leave this forum.

Not only has a companion of you people unjustly attacked our prophet on thi forum but you (and booklover) are joining hands with that fellow and trying to threaten me. Is that your love that Jesus has taught you? First you have to be a just minded person before you can love any one. Please see to that. Thanks.
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Dear Planten,

You are correct, my dear brother. Abusive words are forbidden in this forum. I understand that, and I appologize to you on behalf of my fellow christians. I do admire your patience, anyway. That is a clear proof to me that you are indeed a pieceful Muslim. I may not believe in Muhammad, but I realize that I may not ridicule him.
 
planten said:
I did not reply to you or to the booklover. But the words have hurt you quickly.Did you read what your loving christian friend had written about Muhammad? Then go and read those abusive words. Then I told that abusive poster (or imposter) that the same words of peodophile etc belong to him only and not to Muhammad or Jesus.

Be reasonable. I am not afraid of holidays. But it is very bad of all of you not to take notice of that highly biased person who abused prophet Muhammad. You should advise such persons yourself.

As you would not like Jesus to be abused, similarly the Muslims do not like Muhammad to be abused. But if you insist that your group will abuse Muhamamd then we can easily leave this forum.

Not only has a companion of you people unjustly attacked our prophet on thi forum but you (and booklover) are joining hands with that fellow and trying to threaten me. Is that your love that Jesus has taught you? First you have to be a just minded person before you can love any one. Please see to that. Thanks.
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I can also point out where you have insulted Jesus, so dont start with that one.
And Booklover and Angelos have never threatened you, if they did, they would be banned.
All they have ever done was display what Muhammed truly is and have shown all the contradictions displayed in the quran.
The problem is, you dont like us showing the truth about your prophet, and what history has shown what he truly done. Your more than welcome to bury your head in the sand, but we point out the facts.
And please, do not ever say my brothers and sisters threaten you when its clear all they do is disagree with you.
God Bless
 
planten said:
I did not reply to you or to the booklover. But the words have hurt you quickly.Did you read what your loving christian friend had written about Muhammad? Then go and read those abusive words. Then I told that abusive poster (or imposter) that the same words of peodophile etc belong to him only and not to Muhammad or Jesus.

Be reasonable. I am not afraid of holidays. But it is very bad of all of you not to take notice of that highly biased person who abused prophet Muhammad. You should advise such persons yourself.

As you would not like Jesus to be abused, similarly the Muslims do not like Muhammad to be abused. But if you insist that your group will abuse Muhamamd then we can easily leave this forum.

Not only has a companion of you people unjustly attacked our prophet on thi forum but you (and booklover) are joining hands with that fellow and trying to threaten me. Is that your love that Jesus has taught you? First you have to be a just minded person before you can love any one. Please see to that. Thanks.
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I have no authority to judge people personally.

I last time joined this thread only to be humourous! I was only kidding when I said you were in urgent need of a long holiday. The ones who really know me also know that I never threaten people, even my enemies. You are not an enemy of mine. I am happy that you are here.

Sometimes some people may overreact to Islam or Muslims in general and choose to attack the founder of your religion in the first place. However, I always attack the tenets of your religion rather than the character of your prophet.
 
planten said:
I did not reply to you or to the booklover. But the words have hurt you quickly.Did you read what your loving christian friend had written about Muhammad? Then go and read those abusive words. Then I told that abusive poster (or imposter) that the same words of peodophile etc belong to him only and not to Muhammad or Jesus.

Be reasonable. I am not afraid of holidays. But it is very bad of all of you not to take notice of that highly biased person who abused prophet Muhammad. You should advise such persons yourself.

As you would not like Jesus to be abused, similarly the Muslims do not like Muhammad to be abused. But if you insist that your group will abuse Muhamamd then we can easily leave this forum.

Not only has a companion of you people unjustly attacked our prophet on thi forum but you (and booklover) are joining hands with that fellow and trying to threaten me. Is that your love that Jesus has taught you? First you have to be a just minded person before you can love any one. Please see to that. Thanks.
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Why don’t you wake up! All the accusations against Muhammad have come from incidents in YOUR own scriptures, which show the real nature of the man you follow and emulate. We did not make them up!

Vickie
 
planten said:
But we see that Satan took Jesus on a ride for forty days and attempted to misguide Jesus. We Muslim consider that as a bad thing. We don’t know from where the church has got that bad idea of the Satan trying a man of God for forty days.
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Where you got that idea from!, please read this carefully from the Bible , it says AFTER 40 days:
(Matthew 4:1-11):
“Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil. After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. The tempter came to him and said, "If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread."Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.'Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written:” 'He will command his angels concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.'Jesus answered him, "It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. “All this I will give you,” he said, "if you will bow down and worship me."Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.'Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.”

On the other side, the one who commanded Muhammed all the times is indeed Satan, in addition to the Quranic verse that Angelos provided, read this authentic hadith:

Sahih Muslim, Book 39: Number 6757:
“Abdullah b. Mas’ud reported that Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: There is none amongst you with whom is not an attache from amongst the jinn (devil). They (the Companions) said: Allah’s Messenger, with you too? Thereupon he said: Yes, but Allah helps me against him and so I am safe from his hand and he does not command me but for good.”
(E)
(A)
 
Sam_777 said:
Sahih Muslim, Book 39: Number 6757:
“Abdullah b. Mas’ud reported that Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: There is none amongst you with whom is not an attache from amongst the jinn (devil). They (the Companions) said: Allah’s Messenger, with you too? Thereupon he said: Yes, but Allah helps me against him and so I am safe from his hand and he does not command me but for good.”
(E)
(A)
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a jinn commanding Muhammad …a muslim devil for sure Sam! don’t you know there are Muslim devils? one of them became a Muslim devil and commanded Muhammad.
 
dolphinlove said:
I can also point out where you have insulted Jesus, so dont start with that one.
And Booklover and Angelos have never threatened you, if they did, they would be banned.
All they have ever done was display what Muhammed truly is and have shown all the contradictions displayed in the quran.
The problem is, you dont like us showing the truth about your prophet, and what history has shown what he truly done. Your more than welcome to bury your head in the sand, but we point out the facts.
And please, do not ever say my brothers and sisters threaten you when its clear all they do is disagree with you.
God Bless
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**Please understand that fine, decent dialogue is useful. But when any christian abuses the prophet, I would say that he is abusing all the prophets of God and that will include Jesus too. So you should all be careful.

And you are using Hadith to ridicule the prophet. That is not good. Come by the Quran only. Hadith is a man made document like the bible. I don’t trust them much. There are some false Hadith as there are some bad verses (concocted, man made) in the bible.

Therefore if there is any objection about Islam or Muhammad then please come by the Quran and I will show you some interesting things from the bible. Welcome. No need to threaten any one. Your above post is also aggressive**.
 
Angelos said:
I have no authority to judge people personally.

I last time joined this thread only to be humourous! I was only kidding when I said you were in urgent need of a long holiday. The ones who really know me also know that I never threaten people, even my enemies. You are not an enemy of mine. I am happy that you are here.

Sometimes some people may overreact to Islam or Muslims in general and choose to attack the founder of your religion in the first place. However, I always attack the tenets of your religion rather than the character of your prophet.
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** That is very good of you. May Allah reward you for your good manners. Thanks.**
 
Booklover said:
Why don’t you wake up! All the accusations against Muhammad have come from incidents in YOUR own scriptures, which show the real nature of the man you follow and emulate. We did not make them up!

Vickie
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**Yes, you people have used Hadith. Try to use the Quran please. Hadith is not much good. Hadith is like your bible, the biography of Jesus. Our real thing is the quran. Try to raise questions and make judgements from the Quran.

I will do the same from bible for you. Hadith is a man made book like the bible. So not very reliable. Welcome**.
 
Sam_777 said:
Where you got that idea from!, please read this carefully from the Bible , it says AFTER 40 days:
(Matthew 4:1-11):
"Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil. After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. The tempter came to him and said, "If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread."Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.'Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written:” 'He will command his angels concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.'Jesus answered him, "It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. “All this I will give you,” he said, "if you will bow down and worship me."Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.'Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.”

On the other side, the one who commanded Muhammed all the times is indeed Satan, in addition to the Quranic verse that Angelos provided, read this authentic hadith:

Sahih Muslim, Book 39: Number 6757:
“Abdullah b. Mas’ud reported that Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: There is none amongst you with whom is not an attache from amongst the jinn (devil). They (the Companions) said: Allah’s Messenger, with you too? Thereupon he said: Yes, but Allah helps me against him and so I am safe from his hand and he does not command me but for good.”
(E)
(A)
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** I am not interested in any Hadith. Try the Quran Please. Your bible is as bad as my Hadith. Both are man made books. There are many errors in them. You said Muhammad was visited by the Satan. there is no proof of that what so ever. thanks for correcting me about forty days. While the Satan was busy with Jesus it must have taken him some long time, taking him to different places, high mountains etc.

It was good that Jesus passed the test. But he however abused and cursed a fig tree for no fault of the tree.

I can assure you that Satan never came near the prophet Muhammad. The Devil was afraid of Muhammad. But the Devil found Jesus to be an easy target and tempted him. That is not a good thing, however no harm was done

Yours was a good post except that Satan tempted you too and you fell a victim. COLOR]**
 
inJESUS said:
a jinn commanding Muhammad …a muslim devil for sure Sam! don’t you know there are Muslim devils? one of them became a Muslim devil and commanded Muhammad.
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Please do not invent new theories. Already there are enough problems in the bible to be resolved and no success till now.
 
Planten, you are scandalized by the hadith, that is why you reject it…but we are talking to those who hold the hadith beside Quran, and which are 90% of Muslims, my estimate.

And yes, our Bible is like hadith if the hadith are inspired…if not, then it is a flawed comparison.
 
planten said:
** I am not interested in any Hadith. Try the Quran Please. Your bible is as bad as my Hadith. Both are man made books. There are many errors in them. You said Muhammad was visited by the Satan. there is no proof of that what so ever. thanks for correcting me about forty days. While the Satan was busy with Jesus it must have taken him some long time, taking him to different places, high mountains etc.

It was good that Jesus passed the test. But he however abused and cursed a fig tree for no fault of the tree.

I can assure you that Satan never came near the prophet Muhammad. The Devil was afraid of Muhammad. But the Devil found Jesus to be an easy target and tempted him. That is not a good thing, however no harm was done

Yours was a good post except that Satan tempted you too and you fell a victim. **

Is not Adam considered the first prophet of mankind in your religion? Your very book says that Adam was tempted by Shaitan, who made him and his wife stumble and fall!

More, the Koran asserts that Satan is able to (allowed!) blend his satanic verses into all the divine revelations, including your scripture.
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“But he however abused and cursed a fig tree for no fault of the tree.”

Is the “fig tree” symbol for Israel?

And are we to see the message in the same way, if we do not bear fruit when asked?

Peace and blessings
 
Sam_777 said:
Muhammed had a night journey to meet God, and he passed by the prophets in a ranked order, notice that the prophets are placed in Heavens with gates, which indicates that prophets are not allowed to go from one heaven to another, which means Jesus can’t go beyond Heaven#2 but Muhammed can:

The Throne of God.
Heaven #7: Ibrahim
Heaven #6: Moses (aka Musa)
Heaven #5: Aaron (aka Harun).
Heaven #4: Enoch (aka Idris).
Heaven #3: Joseph (aka Yusuf).
Heaven #2: Jesus & John the Baptist (aka Isa & Yahya).
Heaven #1: Adam.

(Sahih Muslim Book 001, Number 0001, Number 0309):
“…Then he took me to heaven. Gabriel then asked the (gate of heaven) to be opened and he was asked who he was. He replied: Gabriel. He was again asked: Who is with you? He (Gabriel) said: Muhammad. It was said: Has he been sent for? Gabriel replied: He has indeed been sent for. And (the door of the heaven) was opened for us and lo! we saw Adam. He welcomed me and prayed for my good. Then we ascended to the second heaven. Gabriel (peace be upon him) (asked the door of heaven to be opened), and he was asked who he was. He answered: Gabriel; and was again asked: Who is with you? He replied: Muhammad. It was said: Has he been sent for? He replied: He has indeed been sent for. The gate was opened. When I entered 'Isa b. Maryam and Yahya b. Zakariya (peace be upon both of them), cousins from the maternal side. welcomed me and prayed for my good Then I was taken to the third heaven and Gabriel asked for the opening (of the door). He was asked: Who are you? He replied: Gabriel. He was (again) asked: Who is with you? He replied Muhammad (may peace be upon him). It was said: Has he been sent for? He replied He has indeed been sent for. (The gate) was opened for us and I saw Yusuf (peace of Allah be upon him) who had been given half of (world) beauty. He welcomed me prayed for my well-being. Then he ascended with us to the fourth heaven. Gabriel (peace be upon him) asked for the (gate) to be opened, and it was said: Who is he? He replied: Gabriel. It was (again) said: Who is with you? He said: Muhammad. It was said: Has he been sent for? He replied: He has indeed been sent for. The (gate) was opened for us, and lo! Idris was there. He welcomed me and prayed for my well-being (About him) Allah, the Exalted and the Glorious, has said:" We elevated him (Idris) to the exalted position" (Qur’an xix. 57). Then he ascended with us to the fifth heaven and Gabriel asked for the (gate) to be opened. It was said: Who is he? He replied Gabriel. It was (again) said: Who is with thee? He replied: Muhammad. It was said Has he been sent for? He replied: He has indeed been sent for. (The gate) was opened for us and then I was with Harun (Aaron-peace of Allah be upon him). He welcomed me prayed for my well-being. Then I was taken to the sixth heaven. Gabriel (peace be upon him) asked for the door to be opened. It was said: Who is he? He replied: Gabriel. It was said: Who is with thee? He replied: Muhammad. It was said: Has he been sent for? He replied: He has indeed been sent for. (The gate) was opened for us and there I was with Musa (Moses peace be upon him) He welcomed me and prayed for my well-being. Then I was taken up to the seventh heaven. Gabriel asked the (gate) to be opened. It was said: Who is he? He said: Gabriel It was said. Who is with thee? He replied: Muhammad (may peace be upon him.) It was said: Has he been sent for? He replied: He has indeed been sent for. (The gate) was opened for us and there I found Ibrahim…”
(E) (A).

Honestly fellow Muslims is that fair & logic to place Jesus as a lowest messenger, if Islam is a true religion, then why it did that to Jesus, shouldn’t Jesus be at least in Heaven#7, and worst than that, Muhammed made himself better than angel Gabriel & all the other prophets, where angel Gabriel can’t go beyond Heaven#7 (E: Tafsir AlJalalayn, A: Tafsir AlTabari (Quran 37:164)), yet Muhammed can reach God’s throne.

Moreover, on the Day of Resurrection, Jesus can’t do anything to anyone yet Muhammed can, per this hadith (Sahih Muslim, Book 1, Number 0373):

“…Allah would gather people on the Day of Resurrection and they would be concerned about it, and Ibn Ubaid said. They would get a Divine inspiration about it, and would say: If we could seek intercession with our Lord, we may be relieved from this predicament of ours. He (the Holy Prophet) said: They would come to Adam andsay, Thou art Adam, the father of mankind. Allah created thee with His own hand and breathed unto thee of His Spirit and commanded the angels and they prostrated before thee. So intercede for us with thy Lords, that He may relieve us from this position of ours. He would say: I am not in a position to do this, and would recall his error, and would fight shy of his Lord on account of that; go to Noah the first messenger (after me) sent by Allah. He (the Holy Prophet) said: So they would come to Noah (peace be upon him). He would say: I am not in a position to do that for you, and recall his fault which he had committed, and would fight shy of his Lord on account of that, (and would say): You better go to Ibrahim (peace be upon him) whom Allah took for a friend. They would come to Ibrahim (peace be upon him) and he would say: I am not in a position to do that for you, and would recall his fault that he had committed and would, therefore, fight shy of his Lord on that account (and would say): You better go to Moses (peace be upon him) with whom Allah conversed and con- ferred Torah upon him. He (the Holy Prophet) said: So they would come to Moses (peace be upon him) He would say: I am not in a position to do that for you, and would recall his fault that he had committed and would fight shy of his Lord on account of that (and would say): You better go to Jesus, the Spirit of Allah and His word He would say: I am not in a position to do that for you; you better go to Muhammad (may peace be upon him), a servant whose former and later sins have been forgiven. He (the narrator) said: The Messenger or Allah (may peace be upon him) observed: So they would come to me and I would ask the permission of my Lord and it would be granted to me,….”
(E) (A).

I really can’t understand how Islam & Muhammed have neglected the special birth of Jesus, that he never sinned (notice in the above hadith Muhammed couldn’t say that Jesus recalled his fault, because simply there is none), yet Jesus can’t do anything to anyone, and why the other sinner prophets better than Jesus, what Jesus did to deserve that downgrade from Islam & Muhammed, I hope my fellow Muslims ask themselves these questions, and judge in their souls and not in their Islamic teaching.

If Islam is a religion from God The Most High, then why such downgrade!, the only explanation that I personally have, that Satan is so jealous with Jesus and God’s plan of redemption, thus, he lost his mind when he had seen Jesus here on earth with us and how he came to redeem us, therefore, Satan fought back and as he deceived Adam & Eve before in paradise, he did the same thing with Muhammed & Muslims.
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Yeah and Dante sees Muhammed in the Eighth level of Hell.😉
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Divine_Comedy
italianstudies.org/comedy/index.htm
 
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