Jesus downgraded by Muhammed from Lord to least prophet.

[Sam_777]

Muhammed had a night journey to meet God, and he passed by the prophets in a ranked order, notice that the prophets are placed in Heavens with gates, which indicates that prophets are not allowed to go from one heaven to another, which means Jesus can’t go beyond Heaven#2 but Muhammed can:

The Throne of God.
Heaven #7: Ibrahim
Heaven #6: Moses (aka Musa)
Heaven #5: Aaron (aka Harun).
Heaven #4: Enoch (aka Idris).
Heaven #3: Joseph (aka Yusuf).
Heaven #2: Jesus & John the Baptist (aka Isa & Yahya).
Heaven #1: Adam.

(Sahih Muslim Book 001, Number 0001, Number 0309):
“…Then he took me to heaven. Gabriel then asked the (gate of heaven) to be opened and he was asked who he was. He replied: Gabriel. He was again asked: Who is with you? He (Gabriel) said: Muhammad. It was said: Has he been sent for? Gabriel replied: He has indeed been sent for. And (the door of the heaven) was opened for us and lo! we saw Adam. He welcomed me and prayed for my good. Then we ascended to the second heaven. Gabriel (peace be upon him) (asked the door of heaven to be opened), and he was asked who he was. He answered: Gabriel; and was again asked: Who is with you? He replied: Muhammad. It was said: Has he been sent for? He replied: He has indeed been sent for. The gate was opened. When I entered 'Isa b. Maryam and Yahya b. Zakariya (peace be upon both of them), cousins from the maternal side. welcomed me and prayed for my good Then I was taken to the third heaven and Gabriel asked for the opening (of the door). He was asked: Who are you? He replied: Gabriel. He was (again) asked: Who is with you? He replied Muhammad (may peace be upon him). It was said: Has he been sent for? He replied He has indeed been sent for. (The gate) was opened for us and I saw Yusuf (peace of Allah be upon him) who had been given half of (world) beauty. He welcomed me prayed for my well-being. Then he ascended with us to the fourth heaven. Gabriel (peace be upon him) asked for the (gate) to be opened, and it was said: Who is he? He replied: Gabriel. It was (again) said: Who is with you? He said: Muhammad. It was said: Has he been sent for? He replied: He has indeed been sent for. The (gate) was opened for us, and lo! Idris was there. He welcomed me and prayed for my well-being (About him) Allah, the Exalted and the Glorious, has said:" We elevated him (Idris) to the exalted position" (Qur’an xix. 57). Then he ascended with us to the fifth heaven and Gabriel asked for the (gate) to be opened. It was said: Who is he? He replied Gabriel. It was (again) said: Who is with thee? He replied: Muhammad. It was said Has he been sent for? He replied: He has indeed been sent for. (The gate) was opened for us and then I was with Harun (Aaron-peace of Allah be upon him). He welcomed me prayed for my well-being. Then I was taken to the sixth heaven. Gabriel (peace be upon him) asked for the door to be opened. It was said: Who is he? He replied: Gabriel. It was said: Who is with thee? He replied: Muhammad. It was said: Has he been sent for? He replied: He has indeed been sent for. (The gate) was opened for us and there I was with Musa (Moses peace be upon him) He welcomed me and prayed for my well-being. Then I was taken up to the seventh heaven. Gabriel asked the (gate) to be opened. It was said: Who is he? He said: Gabriel It was said. Who is with thee? He replied: Muhammad (may peace be upon him.) It was said: Has he been sent for? He replied: He has indeed been sent for. (The gate) was opened for us and there I found Ibrahim…”
(E) (A).

Honestly fellow Muslims is that fair & logic to place Jesus as a lowest messenger, if Islam is a true religion, then why it did that to Jesus, shouldn’t Jesus be at least in Heaven#7, and worst than that, Muhammed made himself better than angel Gabriel & all the other prophets, where angel Gabriel can’t go beyond Heaven#7 (E: Tafsir AlJalalayn, A: Tafsir AlTabari (Quran 37:164)), yet Muhammed can reach God’s throne.

Moreover, on the Day of Resurrection, Jesus can’t do anything to anyone yet Muhammed can, per this hadith (Sahih Muslim, Book 1, Number 0373):

“…Allah would gather people on the Day of Resurrection and they would be concerned about it, and Ibn Ubaid said. They would get a Divine inspiration about it, and would say: If we could seek intercession with our Lord, we may be relieved from this predicament of ours. He (the Holy Prophet) said: They would come to Adam andsay, Thou art Adam, the father of mankind. Allah created thee with His own hand and breathed unto thee of His Spirit and commanded the angels and they prostrated before thee. So intercede for us with thy Lords, that He may relieve us from this position of ours. He would say: I am not in a position to do this, and would recall his error, and would fight shy of his Lord on account of that; go to Noah the first messenger (after me) sent by Allah. He (the Holy Prophet) said: So they would come to Noah (peace be upon him). He would say: I am not in a position to do that for you, and recall his fault which he had committed, and would fight shy of his Lord on account of that, (and would say): You better go to Ibrahim (peace be upon him) whom Allah took for a friend. They would come to Ibrahim (peace be upon him) and he would say: I am not in a position to do that for you, and would recall his fault that he had committed and would, therefore, fight shy of his Lord on that account (and would say): You better go to Moses (peace be upon him) with whom Allah conversed and con- ferred Torah upon him. He (the Holy Prophet) said: So they would come to Moses (peace be upon him) He would say: I am not in a position to do that for you, and would recall his fault that he had committed and would fight shy of his Lord on account of that (and would say): You better go to Jesus, the Spirit of Allah and His word He would say: I am not in a position to do that for you; you better go to Muhammad (may peace be upon him), a servant whose former and later sins have been forgiven. He (the narrator) said: The Messenger or Allah (may peace be upon him) observed: So they would come to me and I would ask the permission of my Lord and it would be granted to me,….”
(E) (A).

I really can’t understand how Islam & Muhammed have neglected the special birth of Jesus, that he never sinned (notice in the above hadith Muhammed couldn’t say that Jesus recalled his fault, because simply there is none), yet Jesus can’t do anything to anyone, and why the other sinner prophets better than Jesus, what Jesus did to deserve that downgrade from Islam & Muhammed, I hope my fellow Muslims ask themselves these questions, and judge in their souls and not in their Islamic teaching.

If Islam is a religion from God The Most High, then why such downgrade!, the only explanation that I personally have, that Satan is so jealous with Jesus and God’s plan of redemption, thus, he lost his mind when he had seen Jesus here on earth with us and how he came to redeem us, therefore, Satan fought back and as he deceived Adam & Eve before in paradise, he did the same thing with Muhammed & Muslims.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

… the only explanation that I personally have, that Satan is so jealous with Jesus and God’s plan of redemption, thus, he lost his mind when he had seen Jesus here on earth with us and how he came to redeem us, therefore, Satan fought back and as he deceived Adam & Eve before in paradise, he did the same thing with Muhammed & Muslims.

Satan knows that the sacrificial blood of Jesus can save us from our sins, so it would be in Satan’s interest if he can convince us that Jesus didn’t die on the cross.

Jesus dying on the cross is a historical fact and fulfillment of ancient prophecy. Who dares to deny this?

 

[inJESUS]

Actually, Muhammad was so “important” that Allah swore by him

Allah says: “By your life, are they wandering about in their drunkenness.” (15:72)

For when God made a promise to Abraham, because He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself. Hebrews 6:13

yet Muhammad made Allah swear by him…from a Biblical perspective, Allah made Muhammad his equal if not greater…

not only that, but Muhammad and Allah both decide things

It is not fitting for a believer, man or woman, when a matter has been decided by Allah and His Messenger, to have any option about their decision. If anyone disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he is indeed on a clearly wrong path ( 33:36).

For who hath known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been His counselor? (Romans 11:33)

 

[inJESUS]

I really can’t understand how Islam & Muhammed have neglected the special birth of Jesus,

 

[Sister_Amy]

Muhammed had a night journey to meet God, and he passed by the prophets in a ranked order, notice that the prophets are placed in Heavens with gates, which indicates that prophets are not allowed to go from one heaven to another, which means Jesus can’t go beyond Heaven#2 but Muhammed can:

Hi Sam

I would like to point out first that the word “heaven” has many meanings (boy I sound evasive, huh? lol). In the hadith you quoted, it’s equivalent to sky. Seven heavens. It’s not talking about “Heaven” in the Christian sense, for which the Islamic equivalent is Jannah, which is often translated as Paradise but actually means Garden. We are talking about 7 levels of skies.

This idea that the prophets are locked in really doesn’t make sense, and you certainly missed the entire point of the hadith, drawing conclusions from it which are practically unheard of in Islam.

Moreover, I object to your thread title that Jesus was “downgraded… to least prophet.” Jesus is certainly, not by any stretch of the imagination, a “least” or “lower” prophet in Islam. There are basically two words to describe Prophets–there is the word Nabi which means prophet, and the word Rasool which means messenger. Muhammad was both. Jesus, also, was both.

The five most esteeemed messengers are Noah, (Abraham, I think), Moses, Jesus, Muhammad. Jesus is CERTAINLY not least.

So I take your thread as an attempt to smear the Islamic position of Jesus, and smear him. The ranking of prophets which you have suggested is NOT an Islamic concept. Muslims believe in all the Messengers of God, without making distinctions among them.

 

[Eden]

The Islamic prophet isn’t really Jesus at all, he’s someone named “Issa” who hardly resembles the true Jesus at all.

Is Isa Really Jesus?

islamreview.com/articles/ISISAREALLYJESUS.shtml

Jesus is not in Islam:

islamreview.com/articles/jesusisnotinislam.shtml

Jesus vs. Muhammad:

islamreview.com/articles/thechristiandifference.shtml

 

[Angelos]

Muhammed had a night journey to meet God, and he passed by the prophets in a ranked order, notice that the prophets are placed in Heavens with gates, which indicates that prophets are not allowed to go from one heaven to another, which means Jesus can’t go beyond Heaven#2 but Muhammed can:

The Throne of God.
Heaven #7: Ibrahim
Heaven #6: Moses (aka Musa)
Heaven #5: Aaron (aka Harun).
Heaven #4: Enoch (aka Idris).
Heaven #3: Joseph (aka Yusuf).
Heaven #2: Jesus & John the Baptist (aka Isa & Yahya).
Heaven #1: Adam.

(Sahih Muslim Book 001, Number 0001, Number 0309):
“…Then he took me to heaven. Gabriel then asked the (gate of heaven) to be opened and he was asked who he was. He replied: Gabriel. He was again asked: Who is with you? He (Gabriel) said: Muhammad. It was said: Has he been sent for? Gabriel replied: He has indeed been sent for. And (the door of the heaven) was opened for us and lo! we saw Adam. He welcomed me and prayed for my good. Then we ascended to the second heaven. Gabriel (peace be upon him) (asked the door of heaven to be opened), and he was asked who he was. He answered: Gabriel; and was again asked: Who is with you? He replied: Muhammad. It was said: Has he been sent for? He replied: He has indeed been sent for. The gate was opened. When I entered 'Isa b. Maryam and Yahya b. Zakariya (peace be upon both of them), cousins from the maternal side. welcomed me and prayed for my good Then I was taken to the third heaven and Gabriel asked for the opening (of the door). He was asked: Who are you? He replied: Gabriel. He was (again) asked: Who is with you? He replied Muhammad (may peace be upon him). It was said: Has he been sent for? He replied He has indeed been sent for. (The gate) was opened for us and I saw Yusuf (peace of Allah be upon him) who had been given half of (world) beauty. He welcomed me prayed for my well-being. Then he ascended with us to the fourth heaven. Gabriel (peace be upon him) asked for the (gate) to be opened, and it was said: Who is he? He replied: Gabriel. It was (again) said: Who is with you? He said: Muhammad. It was said: Has he been sent for? He replied: He has indeed been sent for. The (gate) was opened for us, and lo! Idris was there. He welcomed me and prayed for my well-being (About him) Allah, the Exalted and the Glorious, has said:" We elevated him (Idris) to the exalted position" (Qur’an xix. 57). Then he ascended with us to the fifth heaven and Gabriel asked for the (gate) to be opened. It was said: Who is he? He replied Gabriel. It was (again) said: Who is with thee? He replied: Muhammad. It was said Has he been sent for? He replied: He has indeed been sent for. (The gate) was opened for us and then I was with Harun (Aaron-peace of Allah be upon him). He welcomed me prayed for my well-being. Then I was taken to the sixth heaven. Gabriel (peace be upon him) asked for the door to be opened. It was said: Who is he? He replied: Gabriel. It was said: Who is with thee? He replied: Muhammad. It was said: Has he been sent for? He replied: He has indeed been sent for. (The gate) was opened for us and there I was with Musa (Moses peace be upon him) He welcomed me and prayed for my well-being. Then I was taken up to the seventh heaven. Gabriel asked the (gate) to be opened. It was said: Who is he? He said: Gabriel It was said. Who is with thee? He replied: Muhammad (may peace be upon him.) It was said: Has he been sent for? He replied: He has indeed been sent for. (The gate) was opened for us and there I found Ibrahim…”
(E) (A).

Honestly fellow Muslims is that fair & logic to place Jesus as a lowest messenger, if Islam is a true religion, then why it did that to Jesus, shouldn’t Jesus be at least in Heaven#7, and worst than that, Muhammed made himself better than angel Gabriel & all the other prophets, where angel Gabriel can’t go beyond Heaven#7 (E: Tafsir AlJalalayn, A: Tafsir AlTabari (Quran 37:164)), yet Muhammed can reach God’s throne.

Moreover, on the Day of Resurrection, Jesus can’t do anything to anyone yet Muhammed can, per this hadith (Sahih Muslim, Book 1, Number 0373):

“…Allah would gather people on the Day of Resurrection and they would be concerned about it, and Ibn Ubaid said. They would get a Divine inspiration about it, and would say: If we could seek intercession with our Lord, we may be relieved from this predicament of ours. He (the Holy Prophet) said: They would come to Adam andsay, Thou art Adam, the father of mankind. Allah created thee with His own hand and breathed unto thee of His Spirit and commanded the angels and they prostrated before thee. So intercede for us with thy Lords, that He may relieve us from this position of ours. He would say: I am not in a position to do this, and would recall his error, and would fight shy of his Lord on account of that; go to Noah the first messenger (after me) sent by Allah. He (the Holy Prophet) said: So they would come to Noah (peace be upon him). He would say: I am not in a position to do that for you, and recall his fault which he had committed, and would fight shy of his Lord on account of that, (and would say): You better go to Ibrahim (peace be upon him) whom Allah took for a friend. They would come to Ibrahim (peace be upon him) and he would say: I am not in a position to do that for you, and would recall his fault that he had committed and would, therefore, fight shy of his Lord on that account (and would say): You better go to Moses (peace be upon him) with whom Allah conversed and con- ferred Torah upon him. He (the Holy Prophet) said: So they would come to Moses (peace be upon him) He would say: I am not in a position to do that for you, and would recall his fault that he had committed and would fight shy of his Lord on account of that (and would say): You better go to Jesus, the Spirit of Allah and His word He would say: I am not in a position to do that for you; you better go to Muhammad (may peace be upon him), a servant whose former and later sins have been forgiven. He (the narrator) said: The Messenger or Allah (may peace be upon him) observed: So they would come to me and I would ask the permission of my Lord and it would be granted to me,….”
(E) (A).

I really can’t understand how Islam & Muhammed have neglected the special birth of Jesus, that he never sinned (notice in the above hadith Muhammed couldn’t say that Jesus recalled his fault, because simply there is none), yet Jesus can’t do anything to anyone, and why the other sinner prophets better than Jesus, what Jesus did to deserve that downgrade from Islam & Muhammed, I hope my fellow Muslims ask themselves these questions, and judge in their souls and not in their Islamic teaching.

If Islam is a religion from God The Most High, then why such downgrade!, the only explanation that I personally have, that Satan is so jealous with Jesus and God’s plan of redemption, thus, he lost his mind when he had seen Jesus here on earth with us and how he came to redeem us, therefore, Satan fought back and as he deceived Adam & Eve before in paradise, he did the same thing with Muhammed & Muslims.

Islam and the Koran degrade Jesus as an icompetent messenger by adding Him to the list of all the former prophets before Mohammad. According to the Islamic tenet, all of the prophets sent by Allah somehow(!) failed to transmit the original message delivered to them and could not establish Islam as the religion of Allah on earth. This systematic failure continued up to the time of Mohammad, who - as the superman of Mecca - established Islam and reached perfection. Thus, Issa in the Koran is not different from the other inept and pathetic messengers that could not preserve the notion of truth and originality.

 

[LilyM]

Muhammed had a night journey to meet God, and he passed by the prophets in a ranked order, notice that the prophets are placed in Heavens with gates, which indicates that prophets are not allowed to go from one heaven to another, which means Jesus can’t go beyond Heaven#2 but Muhammed can:

The Throne of God.
Heaven #7: Ibrahim
Heaven #6: Moses (aka Musa)
Heaven #5: Aaron (aka Harun).
Heaven #4: Enoch (aka Idris).
Heaven #3: Joseph (aka Yusuf).
Heaven #2: Jesus & John the Baptist (aka Isa & Yahya).
Heaven #1: Adam.

I see nothing to indicate in what you quoted that any of these levels of heaven is better or worse than another, just different, since NO Prophet could pass into ANY other level by the looks of it. It’s not like Isa is stuck just on one level whereas Idris can go through levels 1 through 4 as he pleases, or Ibrahim through all 7

The exception of course being Muhammad, who Muslims naturally perceive to be the greatest of all (huge surprise there)

 

[Kadaveri]

I’d advise the Catholics hear to look up Muslim sites or ask one of the Muslims on this forum if they want to know about our religion, and ignore the drivel regularly posted round here.

For example this from one of the links given above: "But the Quran {114 chapters} being a relatively small book in comparison with the Bible {1,189 chapters} makes it very hard, even for a person with little intelligence to accept {It is like claiming a pail of water is in a cup}. So we cannot take the words of the Muslims as Gospel truth. The Muslims are notorious for having made various claims, which turned out to be just ‘hot-air’ or plain down-right lies" might just be the stupidest anti-Muslim argument I’ve seen yet. The Qur’an is shorter than the Bible therefore Muslims are all liars who cannot be trusted!? Such remarkable logic.

 

[Angelos]

I’d advise the Catholics hear to look up Muslim sites or ask one of the Muslims on this forum if they want to know about our religion, and ignore the drivel regularly posted round here.

For example this from one of the links given above: "But the Quran {114 chapters} being a relatively small book in comparison with the Bible {1,189 chapters} makes it very hard, even for a person with little intelligence to accept {It is like claiming a pail of water is in a cup}. So we cannot take the words of the Muslims as Gospel truth. The Muslims are notorious for having made various claims, which turned out to be just ‘hot-air’ or plain down-right lies" might just be the stupidest anti-Muslim argument I’ve seen yet. The Qur’an is shorter than the Bible therefore Muslims are all liars who cannot be trusted!? Such remarkable logic.

Very similar to the remarkable logic presented by many Muslims on this forum and in the entire world.

 

[wutru]

Mohammed was influenced by Plato and Aristotle, and many other Greek/Eastern philosophers, especially in the East. These theosophic schools of thought had a tremendous effect on Islam.

In the West, it was resisted by Christians, this is why we had the usual suspects like Arianism and others from the East trying to change Christ’s divinity.

Luckily for us, Truth prevailed at Council of Nicaea.

Note: it’s really late and i’m tired, so my post isn’t that accurate, but it’s what i could remember.

 

[Sam_777]

Jesus dying on the cross is a historical fact and fulfillment of ancient prophecy. Who dares to deny this?

Allah denies that in (Quran 04:157):

“That they said (in boast), “We killed Al-Masih 'Isa the son of Maryam, the Messenger of Allah”; but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not.”

Isn’t that Allah whom most Christians consider him to be God The Most High.

 

[Sam_777]

how can satan deceive yet ask people to pray to God, is the Muslims’ question. Well Smith teaches about God and was visited by an “angel”, was he taught by Allah as well? if not, who was this “angel”?

Yes inJESUS, that is the problem, here is my understanding of that:

Why did the Angels & devils called Jesus the “Son of The Most High” in (Luke 1:32) and (Luke 8:27-28), why they did not call him “Son of God”, “Son of The High God”, or “Son of Almighty God”?

That leads me to believe in this scenario:

The Most High God
|
|
|
|
High God, Moon God, or Almighty God.
|
|
|
|
Pagan God(earthy)-----Hindus God(earthy)------Goddess(earthy)------etc…

I know that there is only one true God, but Satan have deceived people to created the other gods and made himself high god upon them as mentioned in (Isaiah 14:12-14):
“How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations! You said in your heart, "I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain. I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.”

So when that had happened, the Angels & devils had no option other than to call “God” (the true one) with the name “The Most High God” to prevent any confusion between those too many gods.

An example of that is when I say to my daughter please take this envelope and deliver it to your cousin in the XXX building, then after years lots of buildings got built around that XXX building (without the government approval) but still the XXX building remained the highest building out there, now how shall I tell my second daughter to go to that building to deliver another envelope without confusion!, I would tell her take this envelope and give it to your cousin in the Most High building, in this scenario I will be sure that the envelope will reach the right target.

 

[Sam_777]

I would like to point out first that the word “heaven” has many meanings (boy I sound evasive, huh? lol). In the hadith you quoted, it’s equivalent to sky. Seven heavens. It’s not talking about “Heaven” in the Christian sense, for which the Islamic equivalent is Jannah, which is often translated as Paradise but actually means Garden. We are talking about 7 levels of skies.

Okay, never mind if they are called Heavens or Skies, the problem is with the concept, I will give you an example:

Suppose you’re a mother of 4 children, and those children grown up and three of them got married & sinned, and divided their time between their wives and you (as a mother), but the remaining child stayed with you all the time and never sinned, all his/her time was devoted for you, and suppose you inherited a building of 5 floors, and you decided to sit on the 5th one, now in what order you would place your children in the other remaining 4 floors, will you place the child whom devoted all his/her life to you and who never sinned in the first floor, or you would place him/her in the 4th floor just below you? what the logic says?

This idea that the prophets are locked in really doesn’t make sense, and you certainly missed the entire point of the hadith, drawing conclusions from it which are practically unheard of in Islam.

Why! did you study that in your elementary school as I did, how you know what a child would think when he read that Jesus is placed in the lowest heaven yet those heavens require some sort of permission to enter, wouldn’t he think that all the other prophets are better than him, yet Muhammed is better than all of them.

So I take your thread as an attempt to smear the Islamic position of Jesus, and smear him.

The only one who is smearing Jesus is Muhammed himself.

Muslims believe in all the Messengers of God, without making distinctions among them.

Better said: Muslims acknowledge the existence of all the Messenger of God. Because believing is something else.

 

[Sam_777]

I see nothing to indicate in what you quoted that any of these levels of heaven is better or worse than another, just different, since NO Prophet could pass into ANY other level by the looks of it. It’s not like Isa is stuck just on one level whereas Idris can go through levels 1 through 4 as he pleases, or Ibrahim through all 7

Notice this from the hadith:

“…Then he took me to heaven. Gabriel then asked the (gate of heaven) to be opened and he was asked who he was. He replied: Gabriel. He was again asked: Who is with you? He (Gabriel) said: Muhammad. It was said: Has he been sent for? Gabriel replied: He has indeed been sent for. And (the door of the heaven) was opened for us…”

Step #1: Gabriel asked the gate of heaven to be opened.
Step #2: He was asked who he was by (Someone).
Step #3: Gabriel replied that he was Gabriel.
Step #4: (Someone) asking Gabriel Who is with him?
Step #5: Gabriel said: Muhammad.
Step #7: (Someone) asked: Has he been sent for?
Step #8: Gabriel replied: He has indeed been sent for.
Step #9: The door of the heaven then opened .

Now what we can understand from that, can Jesus go freely from heaven number two to the upper heaven WITHOUT being called by God or maybe a higher prophet (Step #7) to allow him…

 

[swariffin]

Notice this from the hadith:

“…Then he took me to heaven. Gabriel then asked the (gate of heaven) to be opened and he was asked who he was. He replied: Gabriel. He was again asked: Who is with you? He (Gabriel) said: Muhammad. It was said: Has he been sent for? Gabriel replied: He has indeed been sent for. And (the door of the heaven) was opened for us…”

Step #1: Gabriel asked the gate of heaven to be opened.
Step #2: He was asked who he was by (Someone).
Step #3: Gabriel replied that he was Gabriel.
Step #4: (Someone) asking Gabriel Who is with him?
Step #5: Gabriel said: Muhammad.
Step #7: (Someone) asked: Has he been sent for?
Step #8: Gabriel replied: He has indeed been sent for.
Step #9: The door of the heaven then opened .

Now what we can understand from that, can Jesus go freely from heaven number two to the upper heaven WITHOUT being called by God or maybe a higher prophet (Step #7) to allow him…

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

1JOHN 2:22 Whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Whoever denies the FAther and the Son, this is Anti-Christ, no one who denies the son has the father, but whoever confesses the Son has the Father as well.

Peace;

 

[planten]

Islam and the Koran degrade Jesus as an icompetent messenger by adding Him to the list of all the former prophets before Mohammad. According to the Islamic tenet, all of the prophets sent by Allah somehow(!) failed to transmit the original message delivered to them and could not establish Islam as the religion of Allah on earth. This systematic failure continued up to the time of Mohammad, who - as the superman of Mecca - established Islam and reached perfection. Thus, Issa in the Koran is not different from the other inept and pathetic messengers that could not preserve the notion of truth and originality.

Not at all. That is a lie. The Quran and the Prophet and all Muslims highly respect Jesus and his mother. But we see very harsh words in the bible about Mary. At one place Jesus (while on the cross) says to his mother “O Woman”. That is a derogatory address. At another place when Mary and her children came to meet Jesus and he was busy with the crowd, some one told him that his mother and brothers had come to meet him.
He said, Who is my brother and who is my mother. These people are my brothers and these people are my mother… (Something to that effect). That is also derogatory words about Mother.

Also paul played hell with the respect for Mary. Muslims did not do any of these things i.e. Quran and Muhammad did not do any such thing. But the Quran confirmed the faith and love of Jesus for his mother (see verse 19:32) He said “I am ever loving and kind to my mother and I am not harsh to her”

 

[planten]

I’d advise the Catholics hear to look up Muslim sites or ask one of the Muslims on this forum if they want to know about our religion, and ignore the drivel regularly posted round here.

For example this from one of the links given above: "But the Quran {114 chapters} being a relatively small book in comparison with the Bible {1,189 chapters} makes it very hard, even for a person with little intelligence to accept {It is like claiming a pail of water is in a cup}. So we cannot take the words of the Muslims as Gospel truth. The Muslims are notorious for having made various claims, which turned out to be just ‘hot-air’ or plain down-right lies" might just be the stupidest anti-Muslim argument I’ve seen yet. The Qur’an is shorter than the Bible therefore Muslims are all liars who cannot be trusted!? Such remarkable logic.

Sorry, the Quran is niether too big to be cumbersome nor it is too small. bible is brief, as good as our Hadith. The Hadith and the bible are both the words of men. Bible is the biograghy of Jesus. The four gospels are same material. So they can be counted as one. So it reduces the volume. There is hardly anything left of the Jesus. All the stuff is from apostles. The real stuff from the real person Jesus is indeed very little in the bible.

Then that is why they had to bind it with the old testament to improve its volume even though they (Christians) had nothing to do with the teachings (Commands) of Moses etc. What use wa sit to tie up the later revelation (NT) with the earlier old one. It was against the explicit advic eof Jesus. Jesus had said that no one should put new wine in old bottles. That meant, new knowledge should not be mixed with the old one. He said that if new wine is put in the old winesacks then the wine sacks will burst… But they put the later testament with the older one (OT) to make it all look bigger.

When the law had been fully abondoned, i.e. the Sabath, the circumcision, the eating of pork, the strict beleif in one God and the alws of marriage and divorce were all abondoned then there was no need of the OT to the christians. Take away the Ot and there is hardly anything left with the church.

 

[ralphinal]

Not at all. That is a lie. The Quran and the Prophet and all Muslims highly respect Jesus and his mother. But we see very harsh words in the bible about Mary. At one place Jesus (while on the cross) says to his mother “O Woman”. That is a derogatory address. At another place when Mary and her children came to meet Jesus and he was busy with the crowd, some one told him that his mother and brothers had come to meet him.
He said, Who is my brother and who is my mother. These people are my brothers and these people are my mother… (Something to that effect). That is also derogatory words about Mother.

Also paul played hell with the respect for Mary. Muslims did not do any of these things i.e. Quran and Muhammad did not do any such thing. But the Quran confirmed the faith and love of Jesus for his mother (see verse 19:32) He said “I am ever loving and kind to my mother and I am not harsh to her”

Actually, Planten, by calling his mother “Woman,” Jesus was showing respect. THe use of that word shows us two things. First, that she is the new Eve, the “Woman” that will bring life into the world, in this case spiritual life. Second, he is saying that she is the definition of what a woman is supposed to be. It is the same as the modern saying “You the man.” It shows that no one is better than you.

The Matthew verse about “Who is my mother and brothers” ends with Jesus saying that “Those who do the will of the Father are my mother and brothers.” Mary did the will of the Father, so there is no issue with that.

How did Paul disrespect her?