Jesus downgraded by Muhammed from Lord to least prophet.

[planten]

Mohammed was influenced by Plato and Aristotle, and many other Greek/Eastern philosophers, especially in the East. These theosophic schools of thought had a tremendous effect on Islam.

In the West, it was resisted by Christians, this is why we had the usual suspects like Arianism and others from the East trying to change Christ’s divinity.

Luckily for us, Truth prevailed at Council of Nicaea.

Note: it’s really late and i’m tired, so my post isn’t that accurate, but it’s what i could remember.

You are mistaken. Muhammad had no need to go near plato. These platos were greek and good for the christians. That where the christianity was spoiled. Christ is a greek word. Christianity is also greek. The pagan greek system was introduced into the pure teachings of Jesus taken from Greeks.

There is no mention of any Greek in islam. It is a universal religion not related to any place or person. Islam is not any ones name (like Christ).

 

[inJESUS]

The four gospels are same material. So they can be counted as one.

indeed, the Injeel of Jesus

So it reduces the volume.

 

[Angelos]

Not at all. That is a lie. The Quran and the Prophet and all Muslims highly respect Jesus and his mother. But we see very harsh words in the bible about Mary. At one place Jesus (while on the cross) says to his mother “O Woman”. That is a derogatory address. At another place when Mary and her children came to meet Jesus and he was busy with the crowd, some one told him that his mother and brothers had come to meet him.
He said, Who is my brother and who is my mother. These people are my brothers and these people are my mother… (Something to that effect). That is also derogatory words about Mother.

It is uncanny that Islam or Muslims consider the word “woman” a degrading term.

Jesus is the Lord of all, including His blessed mother Mary.Thus, there is nothing wrong with Jesus’ deliberate use of the word “woman” in that context. Remember that Mary is defined by her cousin Elizabeth as “a blessed woman” too. This does not change the fact that Mary is a virgin, but emphasizes Mary’s role in salvation as the new Eve obeying God’s command.

Where is Mohammad’s mother in your Koran?

Also paul played hell with the respect for Mary. Muslims did not do any of these things i.e. Quran and Muhammad did not do any such thing. But the Quran confirmed the faith and love of Jesus for his mother (see verse 19:32) He said “I am ever loving and kind to my mother and I am not harsh to her”

Bring your evidence if you are telling the truth: cite the verse/s where Paul uses a derogatory term for Jesus’ mother.

Do not ignore the fact that the Koran includes an offensive word about Mary into the narrative of Jesus’ nativity: BAGIYYA, which means prostitute! Why does the Koran put that swear word next to Mary’s name??? Because it is a word that rhymes with the ending IYYA throughout the first section of Surah 19. Your faith gives priority to poetic patterns at the expense of Mary’s honour!!!

May God forgive you Muslims, for you do not know what you are doing!

 

[Angelos]

You are mistaken. Muhammad had no need to go near plato. These platos were greek and good for the christians. That where the christianity was spoiled. Christ is a greek word. Christianity is also greek. The pagan greek system was introduced into the pure teachings of Jesus taken from Greeks.

There is no mention of any Greek in islam. It is a universal religion not related to any place or person. Islam is not any ones name (like Christ).

The equivalent of the name JESUS in the Koran is somehow not YESUWA (Arabic), but ISSA! The authors of the Koran applied that name to Jesus erroneously because they were influenced by the Greek version of that name. IISUS was turned to ISSA in Arabic.

More, a SURAH (30) is named after Greeks in your scripture!!! How can you deny this, dear planten???

 

[bpbasilphx]

Mahomet was deceived by an inferior demon claiming to be the Archangel Gabriel. His “night journey” contains all the signs of that spiritual ailment Orthodox call prelest.

**God bless the Crusaders!

I confess there is NO GOD but Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and Jesus is God Incarnate risen from the dead!**

 

[swariffin]

Sorry, the Quran is niether too big to be cumbersome nor it is too small. bible is brief, as good as our Hadith. The Hadith and the bible are both the words of men. Bible is the biograghy of Jesus. The four gospels are same material. So they can be counted as one. So it reduces the volume. There is hardly anything left of the Jesus. All the stuff is from apostles. The real stuff from the real person Jesus is indeed very little in the bible.

Then that is why they had to bind it with the old testament to improve its volume even though they (Christians) had nothing to do with the teachings (Commands) of Moses etc. What use wa sit to tie up the later revelation (NT) with the earlier old one. It was against the explicit advic eof Jesus. Jesus had said that no one should put new wine in old bottles. That meant, new knowledge should not be mixed with the old one. He said that if new wine is put in the old winesacks then the wine sacks will burst… But they put the later testament with the older one (OT) to make it all look bigger.

When the law had been fully abondoned, i.e. the Sabath, the circumcision, the eating of pork, the strict beleif in one God and the alws of marriage and divorce were all abondoned then there was no need of the OT to the christians. Take away the Ot and there is hardly anything left with the church.

Oh dear Planten, What is your quran gives? What is the supposed to be word of God gives? easily manipulated verses by those terrorist in the name of Allah. How can the word of Gods be easily be manipulated by men? Your Quran came with tons of laws, and those laws are made to be broken. What Islam is left? A leaderless system which depends on any single person capable of citing a verse or two of Quran and made his own interpretation out of it.

 

[swariffin]

BTW, take all the errors in Quran, there will be nothing left meaningful in it.

 

[planten]

Oh dear Planten, What is your quran gives? What is the supposed to be word of God gives? easily manipulated verses by those terrorist in the name of Allah. How can the word of Gods be easily be manipulated by men? Your Quran came with tons of laws, and those laws are made to be broken. What Islam is left? A leaderless system which depends on any single person capable of citing a verse or two of Quran and made his own interpretation out of it.

Sir you are right. The present day Muslim leaders are a copy of the Christian leaders of 300 years ago. These Muslim leaders are following in the footsteps of the Jews and the christians of old time.

The present day Jews and the christians have mended their ways very well. But Muslims will do it much later. That is the fact. Just like the christian leaders (Padres) do not have any say in the matters of the society, they remain away from any serious public activity. The Muslims will also do the same when no one will listen to them.

Please do not mind. The church had been an enemy of Science. Try to remember what the church did to Galileo (Italian inventor). Same thing the Muslim religious leaders are doing to the Muslim society in these days. But they are falling back slowly as did the Padres. So have patience please. Things will change sometime.

 

[Hisalone]

1JOHN 2:22 Whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Whoever denies the FAther and the Son, this is Anti-Christ, no one who denies the son has the father, but whoever confesses the Son has the Father as well.

Peace;

Islam dishonors Jesus becase they deny what He taught and do not follow what He said. How can you claim someone is a prophet yet ignore all He said.

 

[planten]

It is uncanny that Islam or Muslims consider the word “woman” a degrading term.

Jesus is the Lord of all, including His blessed mother Mary.Thus, there is nothing wrong with Jesus’ deliberate use of the word “woman” in that context. Remember that Mary is defined by her cousin Elizabeth as “a blessed woman” too. This does not change the fact that Mary is a virgin, but emphasizes Mary’s role in salvation as the new Eve obeying God’s command.

Where is Mohammad’s mother in your Koran?

Bring your evidence if you are telling the truth: cite the verse/s where Paul uses a derogatory term for Jesus’ mother.

Do not ignore the fact that the Koran includes an offensive word about Mary into the narrative of Jesus’ nativity: BAGIYYA, which means prostitute! Why does the Koran put that swear word next to Mary’s name??? Because it is a word that rhymes with the ending IYYA throughout the first section of Surah 19. Your faith gives priority to poetic patterns at the expense of Mary’s honour!!!

May God forgive you Muslims, for you do not know what you are doing!

To me calling my mother as O woman will not be respectable. You can have the things the way you like. That would not be good ideas. Also, I could ask about jesus being god and creator of everything, he must have created his mother too. You may have answer to that too but it won’t help me at all. It won’t help any one, I hope.

 

[planten]

The equivalent of the name JESUS in the Koran is somehow not YESUWA (Arabic), but ISSA! The authors of the Koran applied that name to Jesus erroneously because they were influenced by the Greek version of that name. IISUS was turned to ISSA in Arabic.

More, a SURAH (30) is named after Greeks in your scripture!!! How can you deny this, dear planten???

** I do not deny that. Romans were a major power in the area in those days. The Arabs used to side with the pagans of Iran. Iran (Persia) was also another super power in those days and they had defeated the Romans (christians) in battle. The king of Persia took a lady of the Roman Royal family as wife (her name was Shireen) as war prize. The Persians and the Arab pagan celebrated that victory.

The sympathies of the Muslims of Madinah were with the christians of Roma. In that chapter 30 was a prophecy that even though the Romans have been subdued (defeated) in the land but they will soon within 3 to 9 years, they will come up and be victorious against the persians. At that time the Muslims will celebrate a double victory… Please read that chapter.

It happened exactly like that…**

 

[Angelos]

** I do not deny that. Romans were a major power in the area in those days. The Arabs used to side with the pagans of Iran. Iran (Persia) was also another super power in those days and they had defeated the Romans (christians) in battle. The king of Persia took a lady of the Roman Royal family as wife (her name was Shireen) as war prize. The Persians and the Arab pagan celebrated that victory.

The sympathies of the Muslims of Madinah were with the christians of Roma. In that chapter 30 was a prophecy that even though the Romans have been subdued (defeated) in the land but they will soon within 3 to 9 years, they will come up and be victorious against the persians. At that time the Muslims will celebrate a double victory… Please read that chapter.

It happened exactly like that…**

I cannot see any clear prophecy in that Surah that came true some time later, but a vague and simple prediction. I am not interested in the personal predictions of Mohammad’s scribes either. I only referred to chapter 30 in the Koran to rebut your claims that there was NOTHING related to Greeks in Islam.

Thanks and peace

 

[Angelos]

To me calling my mother as O woman will not be respectable. You can have the things the way you like. That would not be good ideas. Also, I could ask about jesus being god and creator of everything, he must have created his mother too. You may have answer to that too but it won’t help me at all. It won’t help any one, I hope.

I think we are not here to discuss your personal value judgments, but the religious context of Jesus’ specific address to His mother in John’s Gospel.

 

[swariffin]

Sir you are right. The present day Muslim leaders are a copy of the Christian leaders of 300 years ago. These Muslim leaders are following in the footsteps of the Jews and the christians of old time.\QUOTE]

Name one example please? Remember, a political leader who happens to be a Christian does not necessarily means a leader in Christianity. In Islam, Religion is also Politics. Don’t mixed leader and religion in Christianity.

Please don’t call me Sir, my friend. In the eye of God, you are the same as me.
planten;3884475:

The present day Jews and the christians have mended their ways very well. But Muslims will do it much later. That is the fact. Just like the christian leaders (Padres) do not have any say in the matters of the society

, they remain away from any serious public activity. The Muslims will also do the same when no one will listen to them.

Who said that? The padres in the catholic church have cooled down mass demontration to overthrown Gloria M. Arroyo under the influence of Pope Benedict 16. At the past time, Cardinal Sin from Manila helped overthrowing Ferdinand Marcos (and had internal arguments with JPII at that time). It was the padres from Poland under the encouragement of JPII have overthrown Communism in Poland without any armed rebellion. That is why the Chinese Government are so afraid of the “power” of Vatican, although Catholics in the PRC are minority, although Vatican has no armed forces, although Vatican has no nuclear weapon. It was also JPII who strongly opposed George Bush’ plan to invade Afganistan and Irak, while all world leaders were quite, even the United Nations. Our leadership has very strong influence toward our Catholic society, my dear Friend.

Please do not mind. The church had been an enemy of Science. Try to remember what the church did to Galileo (Italian inventor). Same thing the Muslim religious leaders are doing to the Muslim society in these days. But they are falling back slowly as did the Padres. So have patience please. Things will change sometime.

The Church has made an open apology to Galileo. The first Astronomer who used spectrometry to analyze the sun and the stars was a Catholic Padre. JPII had very great interest in the big bang theory, and had invited many well known cosmologist to his Castel Gandolfo, including the well known Stephen Hawking.

Now, my question to you. What the muslim leaders do to ban the act of Terrorism in the name of Allah?

 

[planten]

I cannot see any clear prophecy in that Surah that came true some time later, but a vague and simple prediction. I am not interested in the personal predictions of Mohammad’s scribes either. I only referred to chapter 30 in the Koran to rebut your claims that there was NOTHING related to Greeks in Islam.

Thanks and peace

**The prophecy came true because the Romans defeated the Persians after about six years. That was perfect prophecy. Not every one can foretell but the prophet can tell such things because he is informed by God.
It was said that the Muslims will celebrate double happiness. The first happiness for Muslims will be because of the victory of the christians over the persian pagans, The other happy occasion will be the victory of the muslims over the pagan Arabs of Makkah. The city of Makkah (the center of all opposition) was liberated at the same time.

So it was an occasion of double happiness. Can any one predict such things in advance? The Quran did it and it came true.

Now about your knowledge of history and Geography. The name Roma or Rome is there in the Quran. Is Roma or Rome anything to do with Greece? Please be reasonable. The Greeks are called Younanis. Not Roman. Be careful, attend school.**

 

[Sam_777]

The equivalent of the name JESUS in the Koran is somehow not YESUWA (Arabic), but ISSA! The authors of the Koran applied that name to Jesus erroneously because they were influenced by the Greek version of that name. IISUS was turned to ISSA in Arabic.

I agree.

 

[Sam_777]

Oh dear Planten, What is your quran gives? What is the supposed to be word of God gives? easily manipulated verses by those terrorist in the name of Allah. How can the word of Gods be easily be manipulated by men? Your Quran came with tons of laws, and those laws are made to be broken. What Islam is left? A leaderless system which depends on any single person capable of citing a verse or two of Quran and made his own interpretation out of it.

I consider Islamic law to be an earthy one, it seems great for people living here on earth (person-to-person), but Christianity law is a heavenly one (person-to-God).

 

[Sam_777]

** The sympathies of the Muslims of Madinah were with the christians of Roma. In that chapter 30 was a prophecy that even though the Romans have been subdued (defeated) in the land but they will soon within 3 to 9 years, they will come up and be victorious against the persians. At that time the Muslims will celebrate a double victory… Please read that chapter.

It happened exactly like that…**

Actually in Tafseer Ibn-Katheer for that verse, he mentioned one hadith where Muhammed was upset & angry with Abu-Baker because he gave a time frame for that fake prophecy, read it here (Quran 30:02), sorry the tafseer is only in Arabic.

 

[Sam_777]

Now, my question to you. What the muslim leaders do to ban the act of Terrorism in the name of Allah?

You would be all dreaming if you think the Muslim leaders would or can do anything to ban “Terrorism in the name of Allah”, the terrorism is part of Quran per (Quran 03:151), (Quran 47:4), (Quran 09:5), (Quran 09:29).

So if anyone think that some Muslim leaders or clerics in the future might come to change or ban that, he/she would be mistaken, Quran came to contradict Jesus and God’s salvation plan.

 

[swariffin]

You would be all dreaming if you think the Muslim leaders would or can do anything to ban “Terrorism in the name of Allah”, the terrorism is part of Quran per (Quran 03:151), (Quran 47:4), (Quran 09:5), (Quran 09:29).

So if anyone think that some Muslim leaders or clerics in the future might come to change or ban that, he/she would be mistaken, Quran came to contradict Jesus and God’s salvation plan.

Dear Brother Sam,

I am afraid that I must say that you are correct, brother. However, deep in my heart, I do hope that I am right. I hope that there will be a very charismatic Islamic leader who is able to denounce all Terrorism in the name of Allah, and his voice will be obeyed throughout the world. I know that I am dreaming, but Geppetto in Pinochio film sang that :

If your heart is in your dream,
No request is too extreme,
When you dream upon a “star”, your dream come true.