Jesus drives out the demons into swine question

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pjMerluza

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Okay, I was listening to the reading yesterday about Jesus driving the demons into the swine herd and then the swine run off the cliff into the sea. Then a question crossed my mind that I wanted to have answered. Why would there be a herd of swine in Israel? I thought jews couldn’t eat pork, so what need would the jews have of the herd?

/now i wait for someone to give me a duh answer
 
I think perhaps they were wild? And probably happy they weren’t eaten, until the demon drove them off a cliff. :o
 
pjMerluza said:
Okay, I was listening to the reading yesterday about Jesus driving the demons into the swine herd and then the swine run off the cliff into the sea. Then a question crossed my mind that I wanted to have answered. Why would there be a herd of swine in Israel? I thought jews couldn’t eat pork, so what need would the jews have of the herd?

/now i wait for someone to give me a duh answer
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They were across the lake from Capernaum, which, at the time, was a territory controlled largely by gentiles. It’s not like all of Israel as we currently know it today was homogenously Jewish… after all, Jesus has MANY run ins with various gentiles throughout the region. (and, in fact, the Romans probably had plenty of pork in the area as well as the local gentiles)

Source on the Capernaum bit
 
pjMerluza said:
Okay, I was listening to the reading yesterday about Jesus driving the demons into the swine herd and then the swine run off the cliff into the sea. Then a question crossed my mind that I wanted to have answered. Why would there be a herd of swine in Israel? I thought jews couldn’t eat pork, so what need would the jews have of the herd?

/now i wait for someone to give me a duh answer
Click to expand...
You could add,

1.) Why would the legion of demons ask Jesus’ permission to possess the herd of swines?
2.) And why did Jesus allowed them to do so?
3.) Why did they run a steep cliff and drowned purposedly?

Peace be to you.
 
One interpretation of this I heard is that the Jews owned the swine to sell to gentiles for business. They also have gentile slaves or workers to take care of the swine for them. That is why the demons got sent to the swine.
 
The swine probably belonged to non-jews or they could have been wild. Who knows.
 
ConstantineTG said:
One interpretation of this I heard is that the Jews owned the swine to sell to gentiles for business. They also have gentile slaves or workers to take care of the swine for them. That is why the demons got sent to the swine.
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👍

From what I learned this weekend, this is a big reason why the Jews asked Jesus to get lost - he was messing up their business income. This is kind of a big deal - they knew he was supernatural - and doing good things from the perspective of the individual that was cured. They didn’t like the substantial loss of income.

But, they were selling pig meat, which was not exactly all that cool. It’s like being opposed to the consumption of alcohol while you own a store that sells alcohol.
 
The explanation I’ve always heard was that they had entered gentile land, which is part of the reason why their reaction to the miracle working was more fearful and angry than anything.
 
promethius said:
They were across the lake from Capernaum, which, at the time, was a territory controlled largely by gentiles. It’s not like all of Israel as we currently know it today was homogenously Jewish… after all, Jesus has MANY run ins with various gentiles throughout the region. (and, in fact, the Romans probably had plenty of pork in the area as well as the local gentiles)

Source on the Capernaum bit
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This is correct. Jesus was in the “territory of the Gadarenes” which is just to the (west) of the Sea of Galilee. The Gospel of Mark records that at the end of the incident…

Then the man went off and began to proclaim in the Decapolis what Jesus had done for him; and all were amazed. (Mark 5.20)

The Decapolis was a group of ten cities of greco-roman culture and language located on the east side of the Jordan River. The area where this all took place is the yellow area on the map below, mostly east of the Jordan River in what would now be the modern day nation of Jordan and a small part of Syria.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ter_Herod.png/300px-Palestine_after_Herod.png

This was Jewish land up until the exile, when the ten northern tribes of Israel dissapared into captivity. These ten tribes never returned to the land but took on the language, culture and religion of their captors and became part of their captor’s society. Only the two southern tribes of Benjamin and Judah returned from exile and these lived further south in the area around Jerusalem (center of the green area, to the northwest of the dead sea).

But the land where this all took place was greco-roman in culture with a mix of different pagan religions. That they had swine was no surprise.

-Tim-
 
trebiasgreg said:
You could add,

1.) Why would the legion of demons ask Jesus’ permission to possess the herd of swines?
2.) And why did Jesus allowed them to do so?
3.) Why did they run a steep cliff and drowned purposedly?

Peace be to you.
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  1. They wanted the use of live bodies – any bodies. As a priest told me, demons don’t see pigs as all that different from human beings.
The use of any living body would keep them from returning to spiritual punishment.

2). Our LORD was showing mercy on the Demons, who although nonrepentant, were still the height of HIS creation.

3). The demons didn’t do this, the animals themselves did, being crazed by the demons and lacking a human soul with which to resist death.

The east side of the Sea of Galilee (modern Golan) was settled by Greek colonials in our LORD’s day, who definitely ate pork.

ICXC NIKA
 
GEddie said:
  1. They wanted the use of live bodies – any bodies. As a priest told me, demons don’t see pigs as all that different from human beings.
The use of any living body would keep them from returning to spiritual punishment.
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That is not entirely correct. Even in the case of posession, a demon is not physically located INSIDE the person and NOT in the spiritual realm as well. Demons influence the possessed, person, but do not make an actual residence therein.
2). Our LORD was showing mercy on the Demons, who although nonrepentant, were still the height of HIS creation.
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Because they weren’t being spared their spiritual punishment, there was no mercy given… and indeed, God does not give mercy to evil.

A better explanation would be that, even though this was pagan/gentile controlled territory at the time, it was still part of the promised land, and therefore raising pigs was, under the old covenant mosaic law, forbidden. The demons asked to be sent into the pigs, and Jesus, seeing an opportunity to dispose of the demon AND the unlawful pigs at the same time, allowed them to do so.

As to why the demons wanted to take the pigs… my personal opinion is that they knew they could destroy the pigs who, while nothing like humans and at the time unclean, are still God’s creations. Demons revel in the chance to rend and destroy anything that is good.
3). The demons didn’t do this, the animals themselves did, being crazed by the demons and lacking a human soul with which to resist death.
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We can’t really say that the demons didn’t cause it. There’s not much a demon could do with a pig OTHER than drive it to death anyway.
 
When Jesus was about to exorcise the possessed man, the demons beseeched Jesus to allow them to enter the porkers. What I wonder is, Why then would the demons destroy their new houses. Anyone have an explanation? Would it be to drive the cost of pork through the roof? I doubt it. I think it is an interesting consideration.

Also, do any of you think that contemporary Christianity has minimized the role of Christ as exorcist? I have heard some people say that he revealed his divinity through the role of exorcist and healer more than through nearly all of his other roles.
 
I think we are missing a great bit of symbolism here. The bible depicts evil many times coming up from the waters in the form of beasts. (c.f. Dan 7:1-3) By driving the demon’s and the unclean beasts (evil) back into the ocean (hostile forces) Jesus is shown as having authority even over the kingdom of Satan. We see that the proceeding versus also tell a story of Jesus having authority over the laws of nature. This is about demonstrating Christ’s authority.
 
pjMerluza said:
Okay, I was listening to the reading yesterday about Jesus driving the demons into the swine herd and then the swine run off the cliff into the sea. Then a question crossed my mind that I wanted to have answered. Why would there be a herd of swine in Israel? I thought jews couldn’t eat pork, so what need would the jews have of the herd?

/now i wait for someone to give me a duh answer
Click to expand...
My thought when I read this was, what if the demons thought they would be getting a new home. Thousands of pigs which they could use to terrorize the local coast, just like they did when they inhabited the possessed man. But then were shocked when the pigs hurled themselves directly into the sea rather than live with this unclean spirit within them. After all, animals don’t have a free will, the way a man does. Maybe they are “hard wired” to do the will of God. So in conclusion, Jesus foresaw and allowed this outcome to test the people of that coast, and ultimately send the demons back to their infernal regions.
 
Monky said:
When Jesus was about to exorcise the possessed man, the demons beseeched Jesus to allow them to enter the porkers. What I wonder is, Why then would the demons destroy their new houses. Anyone have an explanation? Would it be to drive the cost of pork through the roof? I doubt it. I think it is an interesting consideration.
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The possessed are not “houses”. A demon does not leave the spiritual realm and inhabit a limited space in the physical world when they posess someone. The demon is NOT physically present at all.

Ergo, the demon was not looking for utility of a housing location, and therefore they weren’t destroying something useful to them (a pig having no eternal salvation to wreck, and having no ability to communicate the demon’s influence on others… useless to the demon). They were, however, destroying… which alone is reason enough for a demon. They were also destroying property and income, which angered people at Jesus… so this could have been their motive as well.
Also, do any of you think that contemporary Christianity has minimized the role of Christ as exorcist? I have heard some people say that he revealed his divinity through the role of exorcist and healer more than through nearly all of his other roles.
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I would most certainly say that the grave importance of the Rite of Exorcism has been minimilized.
 
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promethius:
The possessed are not “houses”. A demon does not leave the spiritual realm and inhabit a limited space in the physical world when they posess someone. The demon is NOT physically present at all.
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That may be existentially true, but not practically.

Jesus commands the demons to “go out of” the person.

The demons asked to be “sent into” the herd of swine.

There are many Biblical instances of an Angel “inhabiting” a limited space in the form of a person. This is completely possible for the angels, both good and bad. Being that angels are higher forms of existence than humans, it stands to reason that they are capable of anything we are, and much more beyond. Because they are Spirits does not mean they are disabled when compared to us. For that matter we have souls, which are spirits, and yet we “inhabit” this body. 😉
 
I always saw the swine herd’s reaction as a manifestation of reality being experienced by the demons. Making it visible must have been a good.
 
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