Jesus' genetics

  • Thread starter Thread starter Sir_Anthony
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
That is really a good point! There is all this geneology of Joseph, two different and differing ones if I am not mistaken, but (according to belief) he has nothing to do with with Jesus’ conception. So how is Jesus from the line of David? Where is Mary’s lineage put forth? I’m not sure that the “scion” theory cuts the mustard seed. Anyone?
 
I may have now.

Jesus is one person with two natures. God is the Father of His Divine nature, whereas Mary is the contributor of His human nature.

God is Jesus’s father as well as His son, thus Jesus is called “Son of God” and “Son of David”. God is at the same time both His Father and His Son.
 
I can see even some and non-Christian explications of the Father being the Son, but none of that addresses, as far as I can see, the “David” issue. That last on certainly didn’t. ???
 
Jesus said to Philip:
“He who has seen me has seen the Father”
 
pcusack1 said:
Yes but we know that Jesus is not Joseph the carpentar’s son, if we believe what the Church teaches. The only irony is that Jesus is certainly not Jospeh’s son…
Click to expand...
Of course the Pharisees didn’t know that. Their objection was that he was the carpenter’s son, and was a person of the field, and would not be learned enough to provide them any type of instruction in the faith.

The irony is the use of that passage for this argument. 🙂
The basic premise is that there is no proof that Jesus is the son of David. Therefore, Ctholics must show that Jesus is a dsecendant of David to get to square one.
Click to expand...
Maybe to get to square one of this particular argumentative line, but certainly not to demonstrate that he is the Messiah. As Christ says, look at his signs.
 
The Scriptures state that there must always be a descendat of David on the Throne of Israel (Jerimiah 3:17)

The reason two genealogies are given in the Gospels, Matthew 1 and Luke 3 is becuase they are both necessary. Why?

Matthew shows that there was always a descendant on the Trhone of Isreal from David down to Joseph (through Solomon). Then it swicthes to Mary, a descendant of David, (but not a carrier of David’s Y-DNA), who gives birht to the Messiah Jesus, who sits upon the Throne forever.

Mary is a descendant but not a carrier of David’s Y DNA. But it like this: My sister’s daughter is certainly a decsendant of my father, although she doesn’t carry his Y DNA. So, she is still a descendant, but doesn’t possess the Y DNA of my father.
 
Thank you. Since you are familiar with the geneology, would you mind citing the passage where “it switches to Mary,” as your statement is not clear as to which gospel you are refering, or both.
 
pcusack1 said:
The reason two genealogies are given in the Gospels, Matthew 1 and Luke 3 is becuase they are both necessary.

QUOTE]

They are both necessary because the Throne must pass through Solomon, if we believe the Jews, and yet Jesus must be a descandant of David. Joseph therefore can’t be his bloodline father since Jesus is adopted. Therefore, Mary is the “descendant” form which Jesus descends.
Click to expand...
 
pcusack1 said:
[They are both necessary because the Throne must pass through Solomon, if we believe the Jews, and yet Jesus must be a descandant of David. Joseph therefore can’t be his bloodline father since Jesus is adopted. Therefore, Mary is the “descendant” form which Jesus descends.
Click to expand...
God cut off the line of Solomon from bringing forth the Messiah for their constant rebellion against Him and His Laws. The Messianic promise to the line of Solomon was only conditional, provided that they keep all of God’s statutes (1 Kings 9:3-5, 1 Kings 2:1-4, Psalm 132:12). However, Solomon and his descendants failed this task (1 Kings 11:1-10, 2 Kings 16:2-24:18-19). Also seeing that the line of Zedekiah was likewise cut off (as all of sons of Zedekiah were killed) this meant that God himself had to become the father of the Messiah (Isaiah 7:14). This website deals with this topic: kingmessiahproject.com/rrj_curse_of_jeconiah.html. Hopefully it will be of some help to you.
[/quote]
 
OK, I see that the Talmud Yerushalmi mentions “Mary daughter of Heli” (Talmud Yerushalmi, Hag. chap.2, 11a) But in Luke, the translations I have say clearly “Joseph, son of Heli,” etc, back to Adam. In fact, all of the versions I checked on line listed Heli as the father of Joseph. Explain please???
 
Some Christian scholars tell us that Matthew’s genealogy refers to Josph’s lineage - the legal line. And Luke’s genealogy refers to Mary’s lineage - the bloodline.

But this really doesn’t explain why Joseph’s name is mentioned in both.
 
Yes, I went to Padraig’s link and tht didn’t explainit in any way that was clear to me either.
 
Detales said:
OK, I see that the Talmud Yerushalmi mentions “Mary daughter of Heli” (Talmud Yerushalmi, Hag. chap.2, 11a) But in Luke, the translations I have say clearly “Joseph, son of Heli,” etc, back to Adam. In fact, all of the versions I checked on line listed Heli as the father of Joseph. Explain please???
Click to expand...
pcusack1 said:
Some Christian scholars tell us that Matthew’s genealogy refers to Josph’s lineage - the legal line. And Luke’s genealogy refers to Mary’s lineage - the bloodline.

But this really doesn’t explain why Joseph’s name is mentioned in both.
Click to expand...
When ancient Hebrew genealogists would trace the genealogy of a woman they would do it through her husband. That is what Luke is doing. Joseph is the son-in-law of Heli (Eliachim, Joachim; same name) and that is why he is referred to as the “son” of Heli. I thought this was common knowledge.
 
Detales said:
Yes, I went to Padraig’s link and tht didn’t explainit in any way that was clear to me either.
Click to expand...
Really? Try reading my first post in this thread and compare it to what is said in the link. The Messiah couldn’t come from the line of Solomon for 3 reasons:

1.) God’s promise to Solomon was conditional and only applied to Solomon if he and his descendants followed God’s Laws (See my previous post for Bible verses)
2.) The curse of Jeconiah disregarded any of Jeconiah’s descendants to the throne of David.
3.) Zedekiah’s sons were all killed.

Therefore, the Messiah could not come from the line of Solomon. Jesus physically descended from Nathan, David’s son, thus making his Davidic, fulfilling that requirement. In any event, Jesus was also lawfully the son of Joseph giving him Joseph’s legal genealogy and since he did not physically descend from Jeconiah, he overrode the curse Jeconiah while legally inheriting the kingship from Solomon through Joseph.
 
This Is One For God I Think But This Would Be My Understanding. Jewishness Is Via The Mother’s Bloodline & This We Know Mary Was Jewish & So Jesus Has Her Dna. We Also Know Via Matthew That Jesus Is A Descendent Of King David So Thus The Bloodline Goes Back & Actually Goes Further Back. Joseph Is The Stepfather, Not The Biological Father. So If Joseph Is The Most Recent Dna Ancestor & Mary Is Jewish, There Is 1 Possibility. Mary & Joseph Are Distanct Cousins, A.k.a. Mary’s Bloodline Goes Back To David As Well. Additionally Some People Who Have Re-evaluated The Shroud Of Turin To Find The Dna Of God Have Postulated That It Was Characteristic Of Jewish Persons In Israel To Have Rare Blood Types–namely B Negative (this Was The Type On The Shroud). This Is Accomplished Thru Anthropological Research. Note That The Original Research Team Doing The Shroud Did Not Check The Most Obvious–which Was Blood–their Intention Was To Look For Paint Components.
 
KLIBERA said:
This Is One For God I Think But This Would Be My Understanding. Jewishness Is Via The Mother’s Bloodline & This We Know Mary Was Jewish & So Jesus Has Her Dna. .
Click to expand...
Mary can only provide half of Jesus’ DNA , her mother’s St. Anne’s mtDNA. The Y-DNA must have come from David’s line or from God himself.
 
Therefore, the Messiah could not come from the line of Solomon. Jesus physically descended from Nathan, David’s son, thus making his Davidic, fulfilling that requirement.

If this quote were true, then Joseph would be the physical father of Jesus, which has lmany implications, for example Mary’s Miraculous Conception or Jesus’ Diviinty

In order for Jesus to be the Messiah, he must carry the Y DNA of David. (Jerimiah 3:17) " Thus says God: I shall never cause to sit upon the Throne of Israel a descendant form the line of David" In todays language, we know this lineage means the Messiah carries the Y DNA of David as a starter. Then we can look to see if he rescues Israel etc.
 
pcusack1 said:
If this quote were true, then Joseph would be the physical father of Jesus, which has lmany implications, for example Mary’s Miraculous Conception or Jesus’ Diviinty
Click to expand...
Please explain… I fail to see how my above quote makes Joseph the physical father of Jesus; he was only his legal father.
In order for Jesus to be the Messiah, he must carry the Y DNA of David. (Jerimiah 3:17) " Thus says God: I shall never cause to sit upon the Throne of Israel a descendant form the line of David" In todays language, we know this lineage means the Messiah carries the Y DNA of David as a starter. Then we can look to see if he rescues Israel etc.
Click to expand...
I think you mean to cite Jeremiah 33:17: “For thus saith the Lord: There shall not be cut off from David a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel.” How would ancient people even be able to determine someone’s DNA? Please present scripture as proof that the king must be a blood descendant specifically from a male.

God’s promise to Solomon was only conditional based on Solomon’s obedience (1 Chr. 22:9-13; 1 Chr. 28:5-7). Solomon and his descendants were so unfaithful (1 Kings 11:4-13; Nehemiah 13.26; 2 Kings 16:2-3; 2 Kings 21:1-6; 2 Kings 21:19-22; 2 Kings 23:31-32; 2 Kings 23:36-37; 2 Kings 24:8-9), God finally cursed his line up to Jeconiah, thus the whole Solomon line was nullified (Jeremiah 22:24-30).
 
There is not one woman listed in the descendancy list of Kings fromm David down to Jesus in both Luke and Matthew. I would say that’s a pretty strong indication that the Kingship is passed only through the men. The women mentioned such as Ruth were an indication of the mothers of a King - not the King themselves.

Jerimiah 33:17 states that " David will never be without a man (some translations say descendant) sitting on the Throne of Isreal.

The Jerusalem Bible states "For Yahweh says to David, “:David shall never lack a male descendant to sit on the Throne of the House of Israel”

Mary never sat on the Throne of Israel, as far as I know.

It is Jerimiah 33:17. I correctly quoted a book on “Moshiach” that had Jerimiah 3:17. Sorry.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top