Jesus has a soul, why?

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SpeakKindly

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I’m confused.

The reason I am asking is due to Jesus’ presence in the Eucharist

It’s His presence - He’s really there in the room at a spatial location

It’s His Body and Blood - which are there in reality, but not materially.

It’s His divinity - It’s not just the humanity of a man named Jesus, it’s God, the Christ that forgives sins, heals people, and loves us as He does what the Father does

It’s His soul - here’s what sort of stumps me, was Jesus at one time without a soul? How are we morally culpable because of our soul, but the Father and Holy Spirit don’t have a soul? Why does Jesus’ soul need to be present in the Eucharist? Is He less of the living Christ without a soul?
 
Simply put, Jesus has a soul because he is human as well as divine. And we receive his soul in the Eucharist because he is resurrected and living. To be alive means that your body and soul are united, while death is a separation of body and soul.
 
We do not receive His “body” in the sense of a dead body; We receive His whole live self.

His whole live human self naturally includes the soul, or the life.

Our LORD has a soul because He has a body; they go together. The human body lives life; the soul is the life.

ICXC NIKA.
 
SpeakKindly said:
I’m confused.

The reason I am asking is due to Jesus’ presence in the Eucharist

It’s His presence - He’s really there in the room at a spatial location

It’s His Body and Blood - which are there in reality, but not materially.

It’s His divinity - It’s not just the humanity of a man named Jesus, it’s God, the Christ that forgives sins, heals people, and loves us as He does what the Father does

It’s His soul - here’s what sort of stumps me, **was Jesus at one time without a soul? **How are we morally culpable because of our soul, but the Father and Holy Spirit don’t have a soul? Why does Jesus’ soul need to be present in the Eucharist? Is He less of the living Christ without a soul?
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Can anyone answer the bolded part of the question. I am curious if he always had that soul, or if it was created.
 
Jesus the Word incarnate was not created as we human beings are created. He was in the beginning “generated” from the same substance as the Father.

However His “material” existance as a human being only began when He incarnated in the Virgin Mary.

At the moment of conception Jesus the eternal Son of God was given, actually united Himself to a human body that is alive because it posesses a soul, by the Holy Spirit, just as every newly conceived human being gets a soul.

This mistery is called the Hipostatic Union. God is NOT a human soul.
God CREATES the Human soul to give rational life to humans.
Jesus IS a human, ergo He posesses a human soul.

So the answer is NO the soul of the human being “Jesus” came into existance at the moment He became a human being.

Because Jesus IS alive, He resurrected you know?
Therefore His soul, the one needed to keep a human alive is also alive.

Peace!!!
 
RyanBlack said:
The soul of our Lord, as with every aspect of his humanity, was created.
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Jesus was begotten, not created.

***God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, ***

Begotten means “emerging from” or “flowing from” or “constituent of who God is”. Jesus was not created and is not a creature. That includes his soul.

-Tim-
 
TimothyH said:
Jesus was begotten, not created.

***God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, ***

Begotten means “emerging from” or “flowing from” or “constituent of who God is”. Jesus was not created and is not a creature. That includes his soul.

-Tim-
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Tim,

His soul is part of His human nature, and therefore it is not eternal. See the Catechism of the Catholic Church paragraphs 470-471. God created a human body and a human soul for Jesus when He was conceived in Mary’s womb, just like He does for the rest of us.

The Church’s ancient Canons Against Origen Canon 2 includes this provision: “204 [DS 404] Can. 2. If anyone says and holds that the soul of the Lord pre-existed, and was united to God the Word before His incarnation and birth from the Virgin, let him be anathema.”
 
TimothyH said:
Jesus was begotten, not created.

***God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, ***

Begotten means “emerging from” or “flowing from” or “constituent of who God is”. Jesus was not created and is not a creature. That includes his soul.

-Tim-
Click to expand...
God the Word was begotten, not created. Our Lord’s humanity, including his soul, is created, just as is ours. His humanity did not exist prior to the Incarnation.
 
dmar198 said:
Tim,

His soul is part of His human nature, and therefore it is not eternal. See the Catechism of the Catholic Church paragraphs 470-471. God created a human body and a human soul for Jesus when He was conceived in Mary’s womb, just like He does for the rest of us.
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Exactly.
 
As to the question of why he has a soul, according to the teachings of St. Gregory the Theologian, “what is not assumed is not healed.” In other words, in order for our souls to be saved, it was fitting that Jesus have a human soul.
 
dmar198 said:
The Church’s ancient Cannons Against Origen Canon 2 includes this provision: “204 [DS 404] Can. 2. If anyone says and holds that the soul of the Lord pre-existed, and was united to God the Word before His incarnation and birth from the Virgin, let him be anathema.”
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dmar,

That’s a good quote!

To this we may add the Council of Basel which condemned the proposition
“The soul of Christ sees God as clearly and intensely as God sees himself.”
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This proposition is condemned because, as St. Thomas Aquinas points out, Christ’s human soul being a creature must be finite. A finite intellect cannot apprehend God who is infinite in the same way God, who is infinite, apprehends Himself. (Recall though, that Christ also was Divine, and so apprehended God (i.e. Himself) fully in His Divine Nature).

I think though that Tim was trying to safeguard the doctrine of Christ being the Second Person of the Trinity, and in His Divine Nature is co-eternal with the Father and Holy Spirit, and inadvertently mentioned Christ’s human soul.

Christ is Risen!
VC
 
Verbum_Caro said:
dmar,

That’s a good quote!

To this we may add the Council of Basel which condemned the proposition This proposition is condemned because, as St. Thomas Aquinas points out, Christ’s human soul being a creature must be finite. A finite intellect cannot apprehend God who is infinite in the same way God, who is infinite, apprehends Himself. (Recall though, that Christ also was Divine, and so apprehended God (i.e. Himself) fully in His Divine Nature).

I think though that Tim was trying to safeguard the doctrine of Christ being the Second Person of the Trinity, and in His Divine Nature is co-eternal with the Father and Holy Spirit, and inadvertently mentioned Christ’s human soul.

Christ is Risen!
VC
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I’m sure he was. However, there was nothing in my post (to which he was responding) that denied or called into question the doctrine of Christ being the Second Person of the Trinity, the consubstantiality of his divinity with that of the Father and the Holy Spirit, or that his divine nature is eternal.
 
Ryan,

I didn’t mean to imply anything about your post, only extend to Tim the benefit of the doubt about his post.

(EDITED to add: Although I see now, looking at the progression of the posts, how it might look like I thought your post needed clarification. I apologize if I gave you that impression, I didn’t intend to do so.)

Hope that makes sense,
VC
 
How do we reconcile all those quotes with the creed, which says that Jesus Christ was begotten, not made? Does not the creed stand in direct opposition to all those quotes?

***I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, ***

I think the quotes cited have nothing to do with created vs begotten. They speak of his soul being finite vs infinite, eternal vs transient, prexisting, united to God the Word, etc, but they do not speak of begotten vs created.

I’d like to hear how the citations reconcile with the creed.

-Tim-
 
TimothyH said:
How do we reconcile all those quotes with the creed, which says that Jesus Christ was begotten, not made? Does not the creed stand in direct opposition to all those quotes?

***I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, ***

I think the quotes cited have nothing to do with created vs begotten. They speak of his soul being finite vs infinite, eternal vs transient, prexisting, united to God the Word, etc, but they do not speak of begotten vs created.

I’d like to hear how the citations reconcile with the creed.

-Tim-
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The “begotten not made” from the Creed refers to God the Word, not to Christ’s humanity. Christ’s humanity–body, soul, mind, and will–are all created, just as is ours. His human body, human soul, human mind, and human will all did not exist before the Incarnation.
 
Timotare;:
How do we reconcile all those quotes with the creed, which says that Jesus Christ was begotten, not made? Does not the creed stand in direct opposition to all those quotes?

***I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, ***

I think the quotes cited have nothing to do with created vs begotten. They speak of his soul being finite vs infinite, eternal vs transient, prexisting, united to God the Word, etc, but they do not speak of begotten vs created.

I’d like to hear how the citations reconcile with the creed.

-Tim-
Click to expand...
The Creed is talking about the person of Christ and it is true because his divine nature and person are uncreated. The other quotes are talking about his human nature, which is created.
 
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by Him, and without Him was made nothing that was made: in Him was life, and the life was the Light of men; and the Light shineth in darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. This man came for a witness, to testify concerning the Light, that all might believe through Him. He was not the Light, but he was to testify concerning the Light.
That was the true Light, which enlighteneth every man that cometh into this world. He was in the world, and the world was made by Him, and the world knew Him not. He came unto His own, and His own received Him not. But as many as received Him to them He gave power to become sons of God, to them that believe in His Name, who are born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us: and we saw His glory, the glory as of the Only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
 
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