Jesus in Heaven and in the Second Coming

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A quick question to Catholics as well as other Christians: I know that Jesus is believed to be both fully human and fully divine in Catholic theology. Does the fully human nature of Jesus also apply to His heavenly state or only to His brief earthly state? Likewise, will Jesus be fully human as well as fully divine in the Second Coming? Thank you.
 
It applies to His Heavenly state now and will continue through eternity. As He is now in His Humanity, so shall the saints be at the Resurrection of the Dead.
 
Thank you for the information. Does this mean that Jesus has ALWAYS been fully human even before His appearance on Earth, whereas the other Persons of G-d (G-d the Father and the Holy Spirit) have “only” been fully divine and never human?
 
He was always fully divine, but did not become human until conceived in the Virgin’s Womb. God is spirit and does not change, but by the mystery of the Incarnation, the Son of God became the human being known as Jesus of Nazareth. Nothing was subtracted from His divinity, but the fullness of the Godhead became visible in human flesh.
 
I think I understand, as well as one can. Therefore the Incarnation, in which the Son of G-d BECAME a human being, is NOT considered a change in the Spirit of G-d? In that case, G-d really does become a human being in the Person of Jesus but is still Spirit including Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Is this correct?
 
One other question: how does human reason understand the belief that Jesus is both FULLY human and FULLY divine? I guess what I am asking is how does one define the word “fully” in this context: the hypostatic union?
 
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To the best of my understanding, yes. It’s appropriate that you ask such questions this Eve of Trinity Sunday; many priests used to give only pro forma homilies on Trinity Sunday, lest they inadvertently mislead their flock about the nature of the Trinity. Nevertheless, the Trinity is affirmed in your own Scriptures. How many times is the Angel of the Lord seen as God by His faithful ones? Most explicitly, the Trinity is declared in Isaiah 48:16, where God speaks saying that God and His Spirit have sent Him.
 
I could discuss (and debate) this, but that is not the purpose of my thread. I am really trying, as best I can, to understand how Catholics (and Christians, in general) interpret the nature of Jesus. And you seem to be quite knowledgeable and clear in explaining this. Of course there will always be questions, and I think that’s good because it encourages further understanding.

What is Trinity Sunday?
 
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It is the Octave of Pentecost, a solemnity dedicated to the mystery of the One God in Three Persons.
 
meltzerboy2 said:
I think I understand, as well as one can. Therefore the Incarnation, in which the Son of G-d BECAME a human being, is NOT considered a change in the Spirit of G-d? In that case, G-d really does become a human being in the Person of Jesus but is still Spirit including Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Is this correct?
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They way it is phrased is that the Son of God assumed a human nature in the conception of Jesus Christ. The human nature includes the body and rational soul. The divine nature and person are unchanged.
 
Faced with this heresy, the fourth ecumenical council, at Chalcedon in 451, proclaimed:

“Following the holy Fathers, we unanimously teach and confess one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ: the same perfect in divinity and perfect in humanity, the same truly God and truly man, composed of rational soul and body; consubstantial with the Father as to his divinity and consubstantial with us as to his humanity; “like us in all things but sin”. He was BEGOTTEN from the Father before all ages as to his Divinity and in these last days, for us and for our salvation, was born as to his humanity of the virgin Mary, the Mother of God.”

We confess that one and the same Christ, Lord, and only-begotten Son, is to be acknowledged in two natures. The distinction between the natures was never abolished by their union, but rather the character proper to each of the two natures was preserved as they came together in one Person."
The Church thus confesses that Jesus is inseparably true God and true man. He is truly the Son of God who became a man and our brother.

Christ’s risen body is transfigured by its union with His divinity
 
meltzerboy2 said:
One other question: how does human reason understand the belief that Jesus is both FULLY human and FULLY divine? I guess what I am asking is how does one define the word “fully” in this context: the hypostatic union?
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There is low Christology - the fully human nature of Jesus , and high Christology - the fully divine nature of Jesus. Both the Son of God and the Son of man.
Low Christology in dealing with the fully human nature of Jesus as a man deals with the human Jesus, the pain, the suffering, the joy, the hunger, the cold, the hot, the angry, the frustrated, the resisting temptation of the adversary (satan the Biblical Hebrew Bible name for the adversary) . The fear and anxiety of His crucifixion and death. The joy and peace of His resurrection.

We believe God walked with us on earth in Jesus. And in doing so, Jesus had a mission to proclaim the Kingdom of God on earth and in Heaven.
 
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meltzerboy2 said:
I think I understand, as well as one can. Therefore the Incarnation, in which the Son of G-d BECAME a human being, is NOT considered a change in the Spirit of G-d? In that case, G-d really does become a human being in the Person of Jesus but is still Spirit including Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Is this correct?
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God is in eternity. The world is temporal. I’m not entirely satisfied with using a 4D worldblock as an analogy, but it’ll have to do. Imagine the timeline as an actual line. For the people in this temporal timeline each point on the line proceeds to the next successively, the prior point passing away, the new not yet being. But to you outside this timeline you place your hand, not at the beginning, but in the middle, covering it, from that point on for forever. Let’s say you’ve just been doing that for eternity.

So, from a temporal perspective, there was a clear change in you not covering the timeline to covering the timeline. You were “not” before, but began at some point. However, to you, there was no change. You’ve been doing this for eternity as part of your eternal action and will. The change, then, is in the temporal order, not in yourself.

Now, I will make two more points. (1) This analogy, pertaining to God’s action, is necessarily imperfect and insufficient as a complete explanation of God’s action. (2) I’m not sure all Catholic theologians would see it the same way. At least, they may dispute whether a 4D analogy is appropriate. They would agree that the change is only in the temporal order. The assumed human nature began and changed. There was no change in God’s divine nature from eternity. They might feel my analogy is trying too hard to explain it (and see me as trying to put God in a box).

Another way ks that nothing adds to God’s nature or subtracts from it, so the only thing that can change is what’s not in God, which in this case would be the human nature. Assuming a human nature can’t add or subtract from the divine.

I know it seems insufficient if you’re looking for a fully mechanical explanation. But we take the parameters on faith. Any contradictions we might think we find ultimately commit the fallacy of c9nceiving God as a mechanical, finite thing.
 
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meltzerboy2 said:
One other question: how does human reason understand the belief that Jesus is both FULLY human and FULLY divine? I guess what I am asking is how does one define the word “fully” in this context: the hypostatic union?
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It’s a mystery. 😉

Basically, we believe that Jesus isn’t a new nature. If the nature of God and the nature of man were mixed or co-mingled, he wouldn’t be God and he wouldn’t be man (a Son of Adam). He wouldn’t share God’s nature, and he wouldn’t share ours. His offering wouldn’t have been that of a man, it wouldn’t have redeemed our nature. We believe as God breathed life into Adam and we’re born sharing that life, when we rise again in Christ and receive the breath of the Holy Spirit we share in his.

I could ramble on about Christ as mediator, a bridge, and him needing to share in both natures fully (not mixed) as fitting.

But really, Christ represents Israel, represents humanity as a whole, and to represent us he had to be us.

The mechanics of how the two natures are united under one person, beyond being termed the hypostatic union, isn’t something we can explain.
 
meltzerboy2 . . . .
One other question: how does human reason understand the belief that Jesus is both FULLY human and FULLY divine?
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Humans cannot “reason” this meltzerboy2.

With God, there will be truths that are ABOVE mere human reason.

You CAN know somethings about such truths.

You can probe such truths.

But you can never fully understand such truths via human reason.

Such truths that are ABOVE reason are called “mysteries”.

If everything associated with “god” was reducible down to mere human reason, you can bet this is not God.

So in other words, we would EXPECT mysteries or truths that are ABOVE reason.

OK Cathoholic. But HOW do you know about such truths if they are ABOVE reason?

We must have them REVEALED to us by God.
He can do this directly or indirectly.

The Incarnation or Jesus as True God (I Am Who Am) and True Man (taken flesh of the Virgin Mary to Himself by the Holy Spirit 2000 years ago) is such a truth. It is above reason. It is a mystery.

Other mysteries include the Trinitarian nature but preservation of “one” with God.
Why an all good God, allows evil.
And others.

Baptism allows us to believe these truths in a way we could not believe them without Baptism (which is part of the reason why Baptism is sometimes called “The Sacrament of Faith”. We have a supernatural faith, hope, and charity poured or sprinkled into us when we are Baptized. With Baptism we are re-birthed of water and the Spirit. With Baptim we have the Spirit of God sprinkled into us in a special way (as Ezekiel says we would).
EZEKIEL 36:24-28 24 For I will take you from the nations, and gather you from all the countries, and bring you into your own land.
25 I will sprinkle clean water upon you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you.
26 A new heart I will give you, and a new spirit I will put within you;
and I will take out of your flesh the heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And
I will put my spirit within you,
and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to observe my ordinances. 28 You shall dwell in the land which I gave to your fathers; and you shall be my people, and I will be your God.
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Ultimately this is referring to Heaven but starts now.

Hope this helps.

God bless.

Cathoholic
 
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Jesus Christ’s Divine & Human Nature will always be Higher than ours.
The Father and The Son are One In Divine Being and Substance with Their Own Spirit.
We, after Purified completely get to be in Union with God, not One in Being;
as partakers in the Divinity.
Isn’t it true that the Western Church never clarified whether or not The Holy Spirit,
Paraclete is Set Apart from God’s Own Spirit as the Eastern Church does?
 
I’d have to look further at the context but, on the surface, it seems like the verses from Ezekiel refer to the ingathering of the Hebrew tribes in Israel. According to Judaism, this will be realized at the Coming of the Messiah, when the Law will be renewed and studied and practiced with utmost intensity. This is one of the missions of the Messiah according to Jewish teaching. I’m sure the Christian viewpoint is different.

Otherwise, thank you for the clarification.
 
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IsaiahSpirit said:
Isn’t it true that the Western Church never clarified whether or not The Holy Spirit,
Paraclete is Set Apart from God’s Own Spirit as the Eastern Church does?
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I’m not sure what exactly you’re asking here.
 
The Christian viewpoint is that at the Second Coming, this present world will pass away, and the World to Come, a new Heaven and a new Earth, will be inaugurated. Heaven will come down to Earth, and the dwelling of God will be among men. God has prepared for us a New Jerusalem, not made by human hands, and large enough for the entire world of all time to dwell within. The entire City shall be God’s Temple, and the righteous of all time will dwell there and see God face to face. Exactly where it will be located relative to the present Jerusalem, I do not know, but the sea will be no more, so it may well overlap the present seas.
 
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