Jesus in paradise?

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BrooklynBoy200

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I was reading a q&a site and came across this question:

In Luke 23.39-43 Jesus promises a thief on the cross that “Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.” Jesus told his disciples that he would be in the grave three days and three nights, not in paradise, and he told Mary in John 20.17 not to touch him, as he “had not yet ascended.” Therefore he had not been in paradise that day. Please explain to me how Jesus did not lie here.

It does make some sense doesn’t it? How would this work?
 
After Jesus died on the Cross, he preached to those outside heaven and opened the gates. You could say he was in Paradise through all this. But I’m not sure if that means he made communion with God the Father in heaven. He had not yet ascended to his throne in heaven.
 
Hi Happy,

Nothing changed between the moment of Jesus’ resurrection and the day he “ascended” into heaven. As God, Jesus is Heaven. As man, he received his reward and was enjoying heaven as soon as he resurrected. Heaven is a state before it can be a place. It can only be a place when you have your resurrected body. Where and how it is now (for Jesus and Mary), only they know.

When Jesus “ascended” into heaven, he meant to signify that he was going “back” to His Father, in other words, he was leaving the work to us until he should return. He will then “come down” to judge the living and the dead.

Am I making myself clear enough?

Verbum
 
BrooklynBoy200 said:
I was reading a q&a site and came across this question:

In Luke 23.39-43 Jesus promises a thief on the cross that “Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.” Jesus told his disciples that he would be in the grave three days and three nights, not in paradise, and he told Mary in John 20.17 not to touch him, as he “had not yet ascended.” Therefore he had not been in paradise that day. Please explain to me how Jesus did not lie here.

It does make some sense doesn’t it? How would this work?
Click to expand...
In Mediaeval literature “Paradise” was the top level of Purgatory, a beautiful place of peace where the purified souls await the second coming. Jesus was “in the grave” in that he was not yet Resurrected.
 
Verbum said:
Hi Happy,

Nothing changed between the moment of Jesus’ resurrection and the day he “ascended” into heaven. As God, Jesus is Heaven. As man, he received his reward and was enjoying heaven as soon as he resurrected. Heaven is a state before it can be a place. It can only be a place when you have your resurrected body. Where and how it is now (for Jesus and Mary), only they know.

When Jesus “ascended” into heaven, he meant to signify that he was going “back” to His Father, in other words, he was leaving the work to us until he should return. He will then “come down” to judge the living and the dead.

Am I making myself clear enough?

Verbum
Click to expand...
Thanks for the correction.
 
Keep in mind also that punctuation was not part of scripture until the 14th century or so. I have read that the Greek in this verse could also be translated either as:

43 And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.” OR

“Truly I say to you today, you will be with me in paradise.”

While the second way does not change the overall meaning of the verse, it does allow for changing of the timing. In addition, Jesus constantly referred to heaven throughout the gospels, yet this is the ONLY time he used the word “paradise”, The Greek word is *Paradeisos. *According to on-line Greek Lexicons, the meaning of this word can be (though heaven is also a possibility):

  1. *]the part of Hades which was thought by the later Jews to be the abode of the souls of pious until the resurrection: but some understand this to be a heavenly paradise
    *]the upper regions of the heavens. According to the early church Fathers, the paradise in which our first parents dwelt before the fall still exists, neither on the earth or in the heavens, but above and beyond the world
    *]heaven
    This would fit purgatory, which is part of heaven. It also fits with either punctuation of the verse you want to give. Given that Jesus talked over and over about heaven, and only once used the word Paradeisos, I am inclined to believe He was talking about a place like Purgatory or Hades. In fact, in is reasonable to conclude that the thief, who died before Jesus, could have been one of those in the prison to whom -

    18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit; 19 in which he went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly did not obey, 1 Pet 3:18-20. Thus, the theif truly could have been with Jesus in *Paradeisos *that day.

    The thought here is that Jesus was letting them know the good news of going to heaven after his resurrection and ascension. This prison was obviously not heaven (else why call it a prison?). I have a hard time believing it was hell (I can’t see Jesus going down to “rub it in” to the damned, so to speak). The “prison” also fits well the concept of Hades, or Purgatory.

    Just my two cents,
    God Bless, MBS!
 
I have even read this as meaning-because of what is happening today-you will be with me in paradise.
 
Hello Brooklin Boy,

Before Jesus death and ressurrection, Jesus says that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are not dead waiting to rise but alive in heaven. How can this be seeing that Jesus had not yet died for their sins in the physical world time frame?

God and spiritual beings like the saints live outside of physical time.

Please visit: Creation and Jesus Loves God

NAB MAR 12:18

Then some **Sadducees who hold there is no resurrection **came to him with a question …\…12:24 Jesus said: “You are badly misled, because you fail to understand the Scriptures or the power of God. When people rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage but live like angels in heaven. As to the raising of the dead, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the burning bush, how God told him, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob’? He is the God of the living not of the dead, You are very much mistaken.” **NAB LUK 20:37 **

Moses in the passage about the bush showed that the dead rise again when he called the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. God is not the God of the dead but of the living. All are alive for him.
 
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