A
Asbestos_Mango
Guest
Once more, with feeling…
WE DO NOT PRAY TO STATUES
(Or, in the case of us Byzantine types, icons.)
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WE DO NOT PRAY TO STATUES
(Or, in the case of us Byzantine types, icons.)
B
Bishopite
Guest
What you are doing is automatically assuming that anyone who bowes down before a statue is worshiping it and that’s false. They are using it as imagery only. But you being a Bible alone person are missing the whole point. Does the Bible condemn worshiping these statues, YES!!
Does Catholicism advocate the “worship” of statues? NO!!
And if it did you would and could find it in official Catholic documents, then you would show me, however you can’t for it doesn’t exist. I’ll ne existe pas as they say in French.
Here is what the Catholic Church has said about images and how it is wrong to worship anything other than God alone…
"The Second Council of Nicaea (787), which dealt largely with the question of the religious use of images and icons, said, “[T]he one who redeemed us from the darkness of idolatrous insanity, Christ our God, when he took for his bride his holy Catholic Church . . . promised he would guard her and assured his holy disciples saying, ‘I am with you every day until the consummation of this age.’ . . . To this gracious offer some people paid no attention; being hoodwinked by the treacherous foe they abandoned the true line of reasoning . . . and they failed to distinguish the holy from the profane, asserting that the icons of our Lord and of his saints were no different from the wooden images of satanic idols.”
The Catechism of the Council of Trent (1566) taught that idolatry is committed “by worshipping idols and images as God, or believing that they possess any divinity or virtue entitling them to our worship, by praying to, or reposing confidence in them” (374).
“Idolatry is a perversion of man’s innate religious sense. An idolater is someone who ‘transfers his indestructible notion of God to anything other than God’” (CCC 2114). "
catholic.com/library/Do_Catholics_Worship_Statues.asp
Yet if you read your Bible it mentions Ruth bowing down, casting herself prostrate before Boaz in Ruth 2:10. Is Ruth worshiping Boaz? Nope.
Catholics and Eastern Orthodox who bow in front of statues are using them as imagery only, no different than you looking at a picture to remember a loved one.
N
newbie1234
Guest
So you admit that you bow down before the statue? Excellent!What you are doing is automatically assuming that anyone who bowes down before a statue is worshiping it and that’s false. They are using it as imagery only. But you being a Bible alone person are missing the whole point. Does the Bible condemn worshiping these statues, YES!!
Does Catholicism advocate the “worship” of statues? NO!!
And if it did you would and could find it in official Catholic documents, then you would show me, however you can’t for it doesn’t exist. I’ll ne existe pas as they say in French.
Here is what the Catholic Church has said about images and how it is wrong to worship anything other than God alone…
"The Second Council of Nicaea (787), which dealt largely with the question of the religious use of images and icons, said, “[T]he one who redeemed us from the darkness of idolatrous insanity, Christ our God, when he took for his bride his holy Catholic Church . . . promised he would guard her and assured his holy disciples saying, ‘I am with you every day until the consummation of this age.’ . . . To this gracious offer some people paid no attention; being hoodwinked by the treacherous foe they abandoned the true line of reasoning . . . and they failed to distinguish the holy from the profane, asserting that the icons of our Lord and of his saints were no different from the wooden images of satanic idols.”
The Catechism of the Council of Trent (1566) taught that idolatry is committed “by worshipping idols and images as God, or believing that they possess any divinity or virtue entitling them to our worship, by praying to, or reposing confidence in them” (374).
“Idolatry is a perversion of man’s innate religious sense. An idolater is someone who ‘transfers his indestructible notion of God to anything other than God’” (CCC 2114). "
catholic.com/library/Do_Catholics_Worship_Statues.asp
Yet if you read your Bible it mentions Ruth bowing down, casting herself prostrate before Boaz in Ruth 2:10. Is Ruth worshiping Boaz? Nope.
Catholics and Eastern Orthodox who bow in front of statues are using them as imagery only, no different than you looking at a picture to remember a loved one.
My bible clearly states in ex20:5 You shall NOT BOW DOWN before graven images. Nkjv NIV and Amplified all say the same thing.
C
Church_Militant
Guest
Same old allegations that are not supported by the Word of God as have already been shown by myself and most every other Catholic on here.
Your Bible is lacking 7 canonical books. Your Bible does not say what you assert that it does, as I have already shown several times over.
**
Your** repeated assertion of the same non biblical interpretations of men does not make them any less wrong.
My Bible says this in Exodus 20:5 Thou shalt not adore them, nor serve them: I am the Lord thy God, mighty, jealous, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me: and it even says the same thing in Latin…“5 non adorabis ea neque coles ego sum Dominus Deus tuus fortis zelotes visitans iniquitatem patrum in filiis in tertiam et quartam generationem eorum qui oderunt me”
Either way your case is refuted. I understand that the Talliban in Afghanistan have a similar law to the point where they can’t even have art that depicts any living thing. Is that what you want to live like?
The whole iconoclastic heresy devolved from the Islamic influence in the 800s anyway, so this is not rooted in Christianity but in non-Christian Islam. (Check your history…)
I’ll stick with the early church and what the Bible really teaches over what the Muslims and errant men teach.
N
newbie1234
Guest
I don’t know what bible you use but my three bibles say ‘do not bow down’ from the hebrew ‘shachach’
Exodus was originally in Hebrew well before the Latin Vulgate.
NIV,NKJV,Amplified, Strongs Concordance.
You think you refute things.
U
Unitas
Guest
The KJV is incomplete and its OT is not what was included when the decision was made.
The NIV is an abomination on top of everything listed above.
U
Unitas
Guest
I heard they even buried their photo albums and television sets (because TV’s display images) at the behest of the sharia.
Then when the Taliban was removed they unearthed them.
The line of adoration vs. respect needs to be drawn somewhere, lest this literalism overtakes us.
N
newbie1234
Guest
If those three bibles and the Strongs concordance all were translated from Hebrew but your bible uses the Latin which came much later, you still think yours is more accurate?
Or is it more accurate to say that the Latin translation is more in line with your tradition of bowing before statues. So you’ll just stick with the Latin, or you would have to remove all those kneelers in front of all those statues all over the world.
It is the same with Luke1:28, your bible says Mary is 'full of grace" translated from the Vulgate. But my bibles say ‘highly favored’ translated from the Septuagint which is much older than the Vulgate. But 'Full of grace" agrees with your tradition of the immaculate conception, So you stick with it.
So your keeping your tradition is more important than the Word of God in its most accurate translation.
C
Church_Militant
Guest
3short n-C Bibles and a biased n-C concordance?
I had a Strong’s I gave it away. He’s selective in the way he lists the meanings.
So ignore the historical fact, that the iconoclastic position is not Christian, but Moslem.
You can cling to that one verse of proof test, but the context of it, even in n-C Bibles is plain that it isn’t about bowing down…it’s about the worship of something that isn’t God. Don’t you ever get tired or arguing for the sake of arguing?
You aren’t listening.
M
Michael_Francis
Guest
This thread is far off topic and is now closed.
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