Jesus is God. Or...Jesus is the Divine Expression of God

[Prodigal_Son1]

You added the words “and the same”. But that aside, It is true, Jesus was ONE with the Father and we are also told that we are to be ONE with Jesus. Does that make us God?

Jesus said: I am in the Father and the Father is in me as you are in me.

He was teaching about the reality of spirit, in which there is no separateness, but this was not perceived by humans in the flesh until he taught it.

We are ALL One with God and through the Holy Spirit, we can all be One in God’s purpose and have eternal peace on earth.

Does that make us God?

My father was a man, as I assume your father was. Jesus’ Father was not a man.

 

[empurpledsoul]

My father was a man, as I assume your father was. Jesus’ Father was not a man.

I don’t deny this. But his mother was human. And so was his life. He was fully human, he hungered, thirsted, suffered and died, just like Adam after the Fall.

Did God condemn himself to the fall from Grace by forcing himself to suffer and die?

It is because God was the divine seed in Jesus humanity that he was clearly set apart, and then anointed to a divine purpose.

All of this was done to a human life by Gods will, power and authority.

Jesus required God to “Be” what He was. That logically states that there is another source, which provided the divinity of Jesus in a human form.

I am not denying one ounce of Jesus divinity, or his purpose, I am revealing how Jesus humanity and his own words speaking to the issue point to the existance of God as a power greater than him. Why would God claim that there was another power greater than him?

John 14

6 Jesus told him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me.7 If you had really known me, you would know who my Father is.* From now on, you do know him and have seen him!”
8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father, and we will be satisfied.”
9 Jesus replied, "Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and yet you still don’t know who I am? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father! So why are you asking me to show him to you?10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words I speak are not my own, but my Father who lives in me does his work through me.11 Just believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me. Or at least believe because of the work you have seen me do.
12 "I tell you the truth, anyone who believes in me will do the same works I have done, and even greater works, because I am going to be with the Father.13 You can ask for anything in my name, and I will do it, so that the Son can bring glory to the Father.14 Yes, ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it!

Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit
15 “If you love me, obey* my commandments.16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate,* who will never leave you.17 He is the Holy Spirit, who leads into all truth. The world cannot receive him, because it isn’t looking for him and doesn’t recognize him. But you know him, because he lives with you now and later will be in you.*18 No, I will not abandon you as orphans—I will come to you.19 Soon the world will no longer see me, but you will see me. Since I live, you also will live.20 When I am raised to life again, you will know that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.21 Those who accept my commandments and obey them are the ones who love me. And because they love me, my Father will love them. And I will love them and reveal myself to each of them.”

Why would God need to ask himself to send the Holy Spirit?

If you truly look at Jesus Word without needing to see it a certain way, it becomes very clear that he was always deferring to the Father who sent him, gave him the power, allowed him, granted him, was a part of him.

Why would God call another ‘my Father’ unless you believe there is another God?

This is the reason for others to be pulled away from the Word, this false teaching that Jesus was God, instead of Jesus being sent BY God, to be a perfect divine expression in the flesh OF God, receiving all of his power FROM God, for the salvation of Humanity through Him by the GRACE of God.

And then you have a bunch of men from 325 squelching thought by some consensus that Jesus own description of this relationship which clearly reveals the truth is ‘heresy’. They are not Jesus, they are not my source of truth. Thanks GOD I was not raised religious to defer to men from the past isntead of my God given gift of truth through Jesus own promise of the Holy Spirit to guide me and show me Gods truth in Christ!

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I don’t deny this. But his mother was human. And so was his life. He was fully human, he hungered, thirsted, suffered and died, just like Adam after the Fall.

Did God condemn himself to the fall from Grace by forcing himself to suffer and die?

It is because God was the divine seed in Jesus humanity that he was clearly set apart, and then anointed to a divine purpose.

All of this was done to a human life by Gods will, power and authority.

Jesus required God to “Be” what He was. That logically states that there is another source, which provided the divinity of Jesus in a human form.

I am not denying one ounce of Jesus divinity, or his purpose, I am revealing how Jesus humanity and his own words speaking to the issue point to the existance of God as a power greater than him. Why would God claim that there was another power greater than him?

John 14

6 Jesus told him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me.7 If you had really known me, you would know who my Father is.* From now on, you do know him and have seen him!”
8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father, and we will be satisfied.”
9 Jesus replied, "Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and yet you still don’t know who I am? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father! So why are you asking me to show him to you?10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words I speak are not my own, but my Father who lives in me does his work through me.11 Just believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me. Or at least believe because of the work you have seen me do.
12 "I tell you the truth, anyone who believes in me will do the same works I have done, and even greater works, because I am going to be with the Father.13 You can ask for anything in my name, and I will do it, so that the Son can bring glory to the Father.14 Yes, ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it!

Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit
15 “If you love me, obey* my commandments.16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate,* who will never leave you.17 He is the Holy Spirit, who leads into all truth. The world cannot receive him, because it isn’t looking for him and doesn’t recognize him. But you know him, because he lives with you now and later will be in you.*18 No, I will not abandon you as orphans—I will come to you.19 Soon the world will no longer see me, but you will see me. Since I live, you also will live.20 When I am raised to life again, you will know that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.21 Those who accept my commandments and obey them are the ones who love me. And because they love me, my Father will love them. And I will love them and reveal myself to each of them.”

Why would God need to ask himself to send the Holy Spirit?

If you truly look at Jesus Word without needing to see it a certain way, it becomes very clear that he was always deferring to the Father who sent him, gave him the power, allowed him, granted him, was a part of him.

Why would God call another ‘my Father’ unless you believe there is another God?

This is the reason for others to be pulled away from the Word, this false teaching that Jesus was God, instead of Jesus being sent BY God, to be a perfect divine expression in the flesh OF God, receiving all of his power FROM God, for the salvation of Humanity through Him by the GRACE of God.

And then you have a bunch of men from 325 squelching thought by some consensus that Jesus own description of this relationship which clearly reveals the truth is ‘heresy’. They are not Jesus, they are not my source of truth. Thanks GOD I was not raised religious to defer to men from the past isntead of my God given gift of truth through Jesus own promise of the Holy Spirit to guide me and show me Gods truth in Christ!

Joh 10:30 I and the Father are one.

I presented questions in my last post, that you did not answer, but instead posed more questions.

Joh 10:30 I and the Father are one.

Are you saying scriptures contradict each other?

Jesus was fully human and fully divine. When He said He would ask the Father, He was demonstrating respect, due of humanity.

I’m sorry but this discussion is heading to authority, as you bring up a “bunch of men” from 325. Where do you get your authority to say a “bunch of men” from 325 were wrong, or to tell me that I’m wrong for that matter?

Christ gave us His Church while He was on this earth. An authoritative Church, that a “bunch of men” ran, in His absence. Please show me scriptures where He gave you authority over His Church, or anyone else.

 

[JMJ_coder]

empurpledsoul, please explain how Jesus can be divine and not God (undivine) at the same time. Also, when Saint Thomas acclaimed Jesus as “my Lord and my God”, why did Jesus not rebuke him for his error, if Jesus be not God?

 

[ralphinal]

By Jesus own admission, he was made divine by being **given **his divinity by God, the Father. Why would God have to make himself divine?

Question: Is God Jesus? For if Jesus is God, then God is Jesus.

A divine human being is still not fully God, he is a human being set apart for a divine purpose, mission and is the expression only of Gods divine will, is able to perform God’s divine acts and is given divine authority to act on God’s behalf on earth as an intermediary between God and humanity.

In all of that we see that God is the appointer, the designator, the source and Jesus is the receiver, the expression and the perfect truth.

So, if Jesus is divine but not God, that means that you are not monotheistic. You have TWO divine entities

 

[empurpledsoul]

So, if Jesus is divine but not God, that means that you are not monotheistic. You have TWO divine entities

Nope. I believe in One God, who has the power to grant divine purpose to anything and in any manner that One God deems necessary. Jesus was the perfection of Light and Truth, given to be the expression of God in a human life, that humanity could be given the way TO God. It is through Jesus, who served perfectly in absolute submission and was always and only Gods will. So, by that He is God’s WILL, has been given to express Gods power and authority by this, but the source is still God. God is in Jesus as Jesus is in God and we are in Jesus. God is the source of all, and God has created a path for us, who are human (and God is not) to come unto Him through the understanding of perfect love demonstrated through Jesus.

For none can SEE the face of God, but humans required seeing for believing and God would reconcile our inability to grasp His Power, Light, Truth and Mercy by providing a WAY for us to ‘grasp’ what God would need his human creation to grasp from Him.

God is God and God is God alone and in that God is in all things, in all places at all times and is able to do all things without hinderance. We are the ones who are limited, who can not reach God through our mortal understanding, and so we were given Jesus to Gods divine will, power and truth in a way that we as humans could actually grasp and understand, as it pertains to US.

We needed Jesus to understand God. God didn’t need Jesus to be His Will, WE did. And so it was. And Jesus remains divine in that He was what God sent for us to receive Him, as we needed to receive Him. For our blessing and joy, we are no longer unable to come to know God, but we can know God through Jesus, who is knowable to us in a way that God understood we needed.

The very fact that we could see Jesus and Jesus could receive us, as a human to human, is why Jesus was not God, for none can see God, but we can see His perfect divine will as it would be kept in a human life in the flesh by looking at Jesus. Thank You Lord!

 

[empurpledsoul]

empurpledsoul, please explain how Jesus can be divine and not God (undivine) at the same time. Also, when Saint Thomas acclaimed Jesus as “my Lord and my God”, why did Jesus not rebuke him for his error, if Jesus be not God?

A divine expression through human flesh is not God but a divine act of God given to humanity.

I answered the question about Thomas (again it was not John who made that proclamation but it was in John 20:24-30) in the thread on The Word. Jesus was resurrected when this was Thomas cry out of finally accepting what he had been unable to believe until the very last proof.

My Lord! and My God! Well, God did exactly deserve the recognition for what was done in Jesus, and Jesus standing before Thomas as an exalted being was still called the “Son of God” at the end of that very gospel.

Does God give birth to himself?

Does God not make divine that which God wishes to make divine? Can a human do the perfect divine will of God if they have not completely emptied out their human will and never oppose it?

Wasn’t Adam and Eve “One” with God, in that same manner, doing only what God would will and having no sin, before they fell from grace through disobedience to Gods will? Were they Gods too before they were separated by the knowledge of good and evil which would cause a barrier between them and God? Sin (evil) can not abide with God. Was Jesus the One human who lived without sin, thus reconciling humanity to God again through his perfect life? Wasn’t Jesus tempted, showing he has a choice, free will as Adam and Eve, but this time he didn’t eat the apple, but kept his perfect state of grace with The Father who had sent him? Doesn’t that make him ‘divine’ in his works, and life since he did ONLY the Will of God which is ALWAYS divine?

Take one question at a time…