Jesus is Imaginary? ONLY FOR THE FAITHFUL

[PatThePoet]

ONLY THE STRONG IN FAITH PROCEED

youtube.com/watch?v=HUj8hg5CoSw&feature=related

Basically, by praying a request for Jesus to appear physically to you, and them Him not showing up in a physical form in response to your prayer makes Him imaginary seeing as Jesus can’t refuse prayers (Ask of anything and it shall be done?).

Is there any truth to the Jesus story? Jesus appeared to the apostles and over 500 people as recorded in the Book of Acts. But He won’t appear to average Joe in the modern times.

This is the case presented by this atheist website. Can it be refuted? I (PatThePoet) am shakey on this subject (Jesus as a myth?), although I can perhaps defend Marian devotion and metaphorical Creation against Jack Chick himself.

 

[Nullasalus]

ONLY THE STRONG IN FAITH PROCEED

youtube.com/watch?v=HUj8hg5CoSw&feature=related

Basically, by praying a request for Jesus to appear physically to you, and them Him not showing up in a physical form in response to your prayer makes Him imaginary seeing as Jesus can’t refuse prayers (Ask of anything and it shall be done?).

Of course not every prayer would be answered - prayer was never offered up as a mechanism to make God a servant. If it worked that way, would Christ have died on the cross? Would there have been any christian martyrs or even trials? It’s rather odd, extrapolating an extreme interpretation of a biblical claim that the very people in those verses would have realized is inaccurate.

 

[wow]

Basically, by praying a request for Jesus to appear physically to you, and them Him not showing up in a physical form in response to your prayer makes Him imaginary seeing as Jesus can’t refuse prayers (Ask of anything and it shall be done?).

Mat 4:7 Jesus said to him: It is written again: Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

1Co 10:9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them tempted and perished by the serpent.

 

[theistgal]

Basically, by praying a request for Jesus to appear physically to you, and them Him not showing up in a physical form in response to your prayer makes Him imaginary seeing as Jesus can’t refuse prayers (Ask of anything and it shall be done?).

Jesus isn’t at our beck and call – and “prayer” is not magic.

And why would you want to worship a god who did whatever you asked him to? I prefer a God who knows better than I do what I want and need, and answers my prayers accordingly.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

. . .

Basically, by praying a request for Jesus to appear physically to you, and them Him not showing up in a physical form in response to your prayer makes Him imaginary seeing as Jesus can’t refuse prayers (Ask of anything and it shall be done?).
. . …

I think you will find that the whole sentence is

Whatever you ask in my name, I will do it, that the Father may be glorified in the Son; 14 if you ask * anything in my name, I will do it.

[John 14:13-14] It must be asked in the Name of Jesus. This is not just a verbal phrase, but limit on what is asked. If you ask in the Name of Jesus, you ask for Him, because He wants it. Your request must be in accord with His Will if you are acting as His agent.

Thus it is best to begin ones prayer by asking what is His Will, what does He want in this situation. Align your will to His.

 

[SenorSalsa]

I believe it was Fr. Corapi who said something to the effect of “God always answers our prayers. It just may not be the answer we thougth we wanted”

And i think that if you look through history, Jesus has appeared to thousands of people. I see Him every Sunday at Mass. I see Him everyday when i look at some of the people around me. I try to see Him every second in me. Sometimes He’s there, sometimes He’s not.

And I have heard before, however have not verfied, that historical reports do exist of a Man named Jesus. as it was told to me “causing disturbances” in and around Jerusalem. as far as the Son of God part of Jesus, its always going to be a faith issue. It can’t be proved or disproved

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

I think you will find that the whole sentence is [John 14:13-14] It must be asked in the Name of Jesus. This is not just a verbal phrase, but limit on what is asked. If you ask in the Name of Jesus, you ask for Him, because He wants it. Your request must be in accord with His Will if you are acting as His agent.

Thus it is best to begin ones prayer by asking what is His Will, what does He want in this situation. Align your will to His.

That’s a interesting response that makes some sense.

But I have to ask the next question; If it is His will, why doesn’t He just do it without the need for us asking in prayer?

I just ask this question because I don’t understand the point of praying; I mean, it never works for me.

 

[Hastrman]

Jesus isn’t at our beck and call – and “prayer” is not magic.

And why would you want to worship a god who did whatever you asked him to? I prefer a God who knows better than I do what I want and need, and answers my prayers accordingly.

Actually there are gods that are constrained to show up when the proper rites are performed–the Navajo Holy People have to appear, when the Night Chant is done.

Only, they don’t take it lightly, if you abuse that power. When a medicine man made a deal to let the U of Arizona anthropology staff film the whole thing (it’s a nine-night chant), they were apparently angered (after all, they couldn’t give their consent–they have to show up, as a part of their covenant with the Navajo).

Four people–the medicine man, one of the dancers, the patient the chant was four, and the (white) cameraman–all died within I believe a few days, and to this day even the *anthropologists *are leery of looking at that film.

Not kidding.

Maybe it’s for the best that most gods don’t have to come when you call them.

 

[I_like_Mike]

That’s a interesting response that makes some sense.

But I have to ask the next question; If it is His will, why doesn’t He just do it without the need for us asking in prayer?

I just ask this question because I don’t understand the point of praying; I mean, it never works for me.

How many people would go remotely close to being in the right prayer frame of mind to call on Jesus as he called on His Father.

There is a huge difference to using a name and true calling on The Son of God. Jesus would prepare and be in the spirit when calling on His Father, our Father God in heaven.

It might be a very good thing for a lot of people that an appearance every time someone hit a thumbnail with a hammer didn’t occur.

Now when you say prayer does not work for you Charlie Zeaiter are you saying you know what God is going to do for you in response to your prayer?

I can only leave you with the feeling that I have and that is God does answer all prayers. The fact that we sometimes think this is not the case is that we disagree with the answer.

Originally Posted by SenorSalsa
I believe it was Fr. Corapi who said something to the effect of “God always answers our prayers. It just may not be the answer we thougth we wanted”

This could be the best answer yet.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

That’s a interesting response that makes some sense.

But I have to ask the next question; If it is His will, why doesn’t He just do it without the need for us asking in prayer?

I just ask this question because I don’t understand the point of praying; I mean, it never works for me.

See James 4

You do not have, because you do not ask. 3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask wrongly, to spend it on your passions. 4 Unfaithful creatures! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God?

C.S. Lewis pointed out that it is somewhat like at school. The headmaster says: this you may do; this you may not do; as for the rest ask me when the time comes and we will discuss it. Prayer isn’t just ask and get; it’s get together with God and discuss it.

Also God wants us to ask so that we will know where it comes from. If things just come automatically we tend to assume they are ours by right. If we ask and discuss, then we remember that they are loving gifts and remember to thank the Giver.

 

[lorathon]

This types of challenges allways remind me of this.

The Rich Man and Lazarus
19"There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In hell,[c] where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

25"But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

27**"He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father’s house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

29"Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

30" ‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’

31"He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’ "**

I think the highlighted the part I think applies to all of the atheist challenges.

There is an atheist challenge about dropping a coin. If all in the room pray for the coin to not fall then there is a God. Well, what if God did stop the coin one day. Would the people in the next class believe? The ones who didnt see it? No way. God already accepted the challenge as it were. Jesus preformed miracles but some do not believe because they were not there.

 

[kenmd]

well, by demanding to see Jesus you are basically showing that you have no faith in Him. We have to walk by faith in this life. If atheists do not desire a faith relationship with Christ, that is their loss and I do not believe that most atheists are really searching for the truth anyway.

 

[jean8]

ONLY THE STRONG IN FAITH PROCEED

youtube.com/watch?v=HUj8hg5CoSw&feature=related

Basically, by praying a request for Jesus to appear physically to you, and them Him not showing up in a physical form in response to your prayer makes Him imaginary seeing as Jesus can’t refuse prayers (Ask of anything and it shall be done?).

Is there any truth to the Jesus story? Jesus appeared to the apostles and over 500 people as recorded in the Book of Acts. But He won’t appear to average Joe in the modern times.

This is the case presented by this atheist website. Can it be refuted? I (PatThePoet) am shakey on this subject (Jesus as a myth?), although I can perhaps defend Marian devotion and metaphorical Creation against Jack Chick himself.

pat,
I can see from your post your not familiar with the word of God. Get your Bible out and read Titus 3:5. Rom.10:9-10, Eph.2:8-9, to start with. Pray before you do this, that the Holy Spirit will guide you and open your heart to God’s truth.
We all walk by faith, not by sight.

“A God who allowed us to prove his existence would be an idol.”

jean8

 

[jean8]

ONLY THE STRONG IN FAITH PROCEED

youtube.com/watch?v=HUj8hg5CoSw&feature=related

Basically, by praying a request for Jesus to appear physically to you, and them Him not showing up in a physical form in response to your prayer makes Him imaginary seeing as Jesus can’t refuse prayers (Ask of anything and it shall be done?).

Is there any truth to the Jesus story? Jesus appeared to the apostles and over 500 people as recorded in the Book of Acts. But He won’t appear to average Joe in the modern times.

This is the case presented by this atheist website. Can it be refuted? I (PatThePoet) am shakey on this subject (Jesus as a myth?), although I can perhaps defend Marian devotion and metaphorical Creation against Jack Chick himself.

pat,
God chose us in him
see,
Eph 1:3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ.

Eph 1:4- For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love
consequently we are no longer foreigners, but fellow citizens with God’s poeple and members of God’s household. verse 19

Rev.3:20 “Here I am! I stand at the door and knock, if anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him and he with me.” this is Jesus talking, He asks to come into our heart, he gives us the choice to invite him in.
We walk by faith. See Eph.2;8-9

God bless,
jean8

 

[beckycmarie]

Jesus isn’t at our beck and call – and “prayer” is not magic.

And why would you want to worship a god who did whatever you asked him to? I prefer a God who knows better than I do what I want and need, and answers my prayers accordingly.

Amen to that. God is not some genie at our beck and call. Remember even as Jesus was dying on the cross, the non-believers challenged Him with “Come down from the cross, if you are the Son of God!” Matthew 27:40

This challenge posed in the video is no different than when Satan challenged Jesus to throw Himself down from the temple and prove He is the Son of God.

The answer to this challenge is the same as Jesus’ answer:

“Do not put the Lord your God to the test.”

 

[joseph_virgen]

thanks for the laugh. it has been a long time coming. it reminded me of those goofey sci-fi movies in which evil-doers try to brainwash their captive.

fortunately, i’m already a captive.

as for the Nazarene making himself present, he already does. it’s a little thing called holy communion.

 

[GreenLantern]

O how shallow the universes of the physicalists must be.
GK Chesterton:

There is a very special sense in which materialism has more restrictions than spiritualism. Mr. McCabe thinks me a slave because I am not allowed to believe in determinism. I think Mr. McCabe a slave because he is not allowed to believe in fairies. But if we examine the two vetoes we shall see that his is really much more of a pure veto than mine. The Christian is quite free to believe that there is a considerable amount of settled order and inevitable development in the universe. But the materialist is not allowed to admit into his spotless machine the slightest speck of spiritualism or miracle. Poor Mr. McCabe is not allowed to retain even the tiniest imp, though it might be hiding in a pimpernel.

 

[wcknight]

It’s the same old request from the Scribes and Pharisees. They all wanted proof, some magical supernatural event. And even when they got it, they didn’t believe. It was from the devil, it was done on the sabbath or some other nonsense.

There have been thousands of miracles performed by Jesus, his saints and others, yet folks still call for their own personal revelation. All you have to do is read up on some of God’s most faithful servants, and miracles and visions abound. Maybe IF you develop such a close relationship with God or develop such great faith, you too can have a personal revelation or become a great miracle worker.

Jesus tells us it takes faith to move mountains, and IF you have no faith it obviously won’t happen. It’s faith in Jesus as God’s only Son that gives one the power and potential to perform a miracle or have miracle performed for them.

How can anyone expect an atheist to invoke the power or presence of God, when they are lacking the most essential ingredient to make such things happen ??? It’s quite simple, you have to have faith first. It doesn’t work the other way around.

 

[Jimdandy]

I.

IF you develop such a close relationship with God or develop such great faith, you too can have a personal revelation or become a great miracle worker.

Jple, you have to have faith first. It doesn’t work the other way around.

That is It in a nutshell!!