Jesus is not BMITS. TONUD is wrong

[kristinma]

A number of denominations – among them various Christian fundamentalist groups in the US – promulgate the doctrine that only people who explicitly accept and proclaim Jesus as their Lord & Saviour are “saved.” Every one else is doomed.

Some will make allowances for people who never had an opportunity to hear the Gospel message – eg people belonging to lost tribes in the jungles of Sumatra. But by and large people in “Western” countries – people living in North and South America, Europe or Australasia – who do not proclaim Jesus as Lord & Saviour are doomed to eternal suffering in the fires of hell. So are most Muslims and Hindus.

I’ll call this the Theory Of Near Universal Damnation or TONUD. (Rhymes with “toe” and “bud.”) Under TONUD almost everyone is damned.

You see where TONUD leads? For a Jew, for example, it says most of the six million who died in Hitler’s concentration camps are now suffering an even worse fate at the hands of a “merciful” God. Meanwhile a concentration camp guard who repented before he died is now tasting the delights of heaven.

TONUD means that almost every Nobel Prize winning scientist of the last century is now in hell.

TONUD means that countless good people are now in hell while some real scumbags who wiggled their arms in the air and shouted “Lord, Lord” are in heaven.

TONUD paints a picture of a God as the Big Megalomaniac In The Sky (BMITS – rhymes with “bee” and “fits”). Better a God-free universe than one dominated by BMITS.

But here is the WORST of it. TONUD is not scriptural. That is not what the Bible says. Only by taking certain passages out of context and by ignoring large parts of holy scripture can you believe something like TONUD.

I don’t want to go into a long screed on what the Bible does say, but I’ll give ONE example that tends to counter TONUD.

(Mt 7:21-23)

21"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’

23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Creationism aside, TONUD has probably kept more people away from Jesus than any other false doctrine.

Jesus is NOT BMITS.

BMITS is not the God of the Bible.

TONUD is wrong.

Just had to get that off my chest.

God Bless

Kristin

 

[Catholic_Heart]

kristinma:

A number of denominations – among them various Christian fundamentalist groups in the US – promulgate the doctrine that only people who explicitly accept and proclaim Jesus as their Lord & Saviour are “saved.” Every one else is doomed.

Some will make allowances for people who never had an opportunity to hear the Gospel message – eg people belonging to lost tribes in the jungles of Sumatra. But by and large people in “Western” countries – people living in North and South America, Europe or Australasia – who do not proclaim Jesus as Lord & Saviour are doomed to eternal suffering in the fires of hell. So are most Muslims and Hindus.

I’ll call this the Theory Of Near Universal Damnation or TONUD. (Rhymes with “toe” and “bud.”) Under TONUD almost everyone is damned.

You see where TONUD leads? For a Jew, for example, it says most of the six million who died in Hitler’s concentration camps are now suffering an even worse fate at the hands of a “merciful” God. Meanwhile a concentration camp guard who repented before he died is now tasting the delights of heaven.

TONUD means that almost every Nobel Prize winning scientist of the last century is now in hell.

TONUD means that countless good people are now in hell while some real scumbags who wiggled their arms in the air and shouted “Lord, Lord” are in heaven.

TONUD paints a picture of a God as the Big Megalomaniac In The Sky (BMITS – rhymes with “bee” and “fits”). Better a God-free universe than one dominated by BMITS.

But here is the WORST of it. TONUD is not scriptural. That is not what the Bible says. Only by taking certain passages out of context and by ignoring large parts of holy scripture can you believe something like TONUD.

I don’t want to go into a long screed on what the Bible does say, but I’ll give ONE example that tends to counter TONUD.

(Mt 7:21-23)

21"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’

23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Creationism aside, TONUD has probably kept more people away from Jesus than any other false doctrine.

Jesus is NOT BMITS.

BMITS is not the God of the Bible.

TONUD is wrong.

Just had to get that off my chest.

God Bless

Kristin

Interestingly enough, fundamentalis Catholics (yes, there is such a thing) believe that unless one is a bonafide card carrying member of the Roman Catholic Church, one is also doomed to Hell.

 

[edward_george]

Interestingly enough, fundamentalis Catholics (yes, there is such a thing) believe that unless one is a bonafide card carrying member of the Roman Catholic Church, one is also doomed to Hell.

And even more interestingly, one of the main proponents of this idea, Leonard Feeney, was excommunicated for the belief. He rejected Baptism of Desire and Baptism of Blood and taught that only water Baptism made one a member of the Catholic Church, and took the idea of Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus absolutely literally.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Feeney

-ACEGC

 

[George_Waters]

kristinma:

A number of denominations – among them various Christian fundamentalist groups in the US – promulgate the doctrine that only people who explicitly accept and proclaim Jesus as their Lord & Saviour are “saved.” Every one else is doomed.

Some will make allowances for people who never had an opportunity to hear the Gospel message – eg people belonging to lost tribes in the jungles of Sumatra. But by and large people in “Western” countries – people living in North and South America, Europe or Australasia – who do not proclaim Jesus as Lord & Saviour are doomed to eternal suffering in the fires of hell. So are most Muslims and Hindus.

I’ll call this the Theory Of Near Universal Damnation or TONUD. (Rhymes with “toe” and “bud.”) Under TONUD almost everyone is damned.

You see where TONUD leads? For a Jew, for example, it says most of the six million who died in Hitler’s concentration camps are now suffering an even worse fate at the hands of a “merciful” God. Meanwhile a concentration camp guard who repented before he died is now tasting the delights of heaven.

TONUD means that almost every Nobel Prize winning scientist of the last century is now in hell.

TONUD means that countless good people are now in hell while some real scumbags who wiggled their arms in the air and shouted “Lord, Lord” are in heaven.

TONUD paints a picture of a God as the Big Megalomaniac In The Sky (BMITS – rhymes with “bee” and “fits”). Better a God-free universe than one dominated by BMITS.

But here is the WORST of it. TONUD is not scriptural. That is not what the Bible says. Only by taking certain passages out of context and by ignoring large parts of holy scripture can you believe something like TONUD.

I don’t want to go into a long screed on what the Bible does say, but I’ll give ONE example that tends to counter TONUD.

(Mt 7:21-23)

21"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’

23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Creationism aside, TONUD has probably kept more people away from Jesus than any other false doctrine.

Jesus is NOT BMITS.

BMITS is not the God of the Bible.

TONUD is wrong.

Just had to get that off my chest.

God Bless

Kristin

Interesting, I have never heard it put that way. Thanks for sharing!

Peace,

George

 

[kristinma]

Thanks for the link on Fr Leonard Feeney, edward_george.

Here is an interesting one on the same topic from the EWTN site:

ewtn.com/library/SCRIPTUR/FEENEY.TXT

The following is a quote from the EWTN article that may be of interest:

“I[n] regard to the damnation of infants, tragically, Feeney cited a text of Pius IX … saying that no one goes to hell without grave voluntary sin - babies of course have no voluntary sin. Feeney actually ridiculed the text of Pius IX and charged Pius IX with the heresy of Pelagianism, saying (in Thomas M. Sennott, They Fought the Good Fight, Catholic Treasures, Monrovia CA. 1987, pp. 305-06): “To say that God would never permit anyone to be punished eternally unless he had incurred the guilt of voluntary sin is nothing short of Pelagianism… . If God cannot punish eternally a human being who has not incurred the guilt of voluntary sin, how then, for example can He punish eternally babies who die unbaptized?”

I also found the following especially interesting:

“…But then the letter [from the Holy Office to the Archbishop of Boston] said we must also AVOID PRIVATE INTERPRETATION OF THE OFFICIAL TEXTS OF THE CHURCH…” (Capitalisation added)

So we may no more insist on our private interpretation of official Church texts than on our private interpretation of Scripture. I’d never thought about that.

Also, thank you for your kind words Catholic Heart and George Waters.

God Bless,

Kristin

 

[rjs1]

kristinma:

TONUD means that almost every Nobel Prize winning scientist of the last century is now in hell.
Kristin

I could take issue with your argument on several points but this one point jumped out at me. Why do you make the assumption that Nobel prize winners are more entitled to Heaven than anyone else?

 

[kristinma]

rjs1

Thank you for taking the trouble to respond.

I must respectfully correct what appears to be an incorrect inference in your response. I did not say, nor did I intend to imply, that Nobel prize winners are “…more entitled to Heaven than anyone else?”

Is any of us “entitled” to heaven?

I know I’m not. If I get there at all it will be through the grace of Jesus.

I sense we are skirting the issue. Why don’t you tell me what is really bothering you about my post?

God bless you rjs1.

Kristin.

 

[jimmy]

Kristin, I have problems with many fundamentalists and the doctrines they teach. But I also have problems with the way your post sounds. It almost sounds like it does not matter whether you accept Christ or not according to your post. That is against scripture also.

I also have a problem with the same statement rjs had a problem with. It seems to imply that a NOBEL prize in science means something when it comes to a relationship with God. If someone gets a nobel prize does that mean they have a better chance of recieving salvation?

 

[kristinma]

jimmy

Let me start by saying at once that it matters ENORMOUSLY whether you accept Christ as your Lord & Saviour.

If there is anything in any of my posts that led you to think I believe otherwise then I apologise.

I was trying to make ONLY two points:

(1)TONUD is not Biblical. Nor, unsurprisingly, is it current Catholic doctrine.

(2)The absurdity of TONUD keeps many people away from Jesus. They believe that to be a Christian you need to accept TONUD.

The reason I feel so strongly about TONUD is precisely that it is the sort of disinformation that keeps people from accepting Jesus as their Lord & Saviour.

And the only reason that upsets me so is because I think it is of SURPASSING IMPORTANCE that people do.

God bless you Jimmy for pointing out how my post could be misinterpreted.

Kristin.

 

[BillyT92679]

kristinma:

jimmy

Let me start by saying at once that it matters ENORMOUSLY whether you accept Christ as your Lord & Saviour.

If there is anything in any of my posts that led you to think I believe otherwise then I apologise.

I was trying to make ONLY two points:

(1)TONUD is not Biblical. Nor, unsurprisingly, is it current Catholic doctrine.

(2)The absurdity of TONUD keeps many people away from Jesus. They believe that to be a Christian you need to accept TONUD.

The reason I feel so strongly about TONUD is precisely that it is the sort of disinformation that keeps people from accepting Jesus as their Lord & Saviour.

And the only reason that upsets me so is because I think it is of SURPASSING IMPORTANCE that people do.

God bless you Jimmy for pointing out how my post could be misinterpreted.

Kristin.

In the Catholic world, what you’re referring to is Feenyism, or an extreme view of EENS. However, we still believe that outside the Church there is no salvation. The Church of Christ subsists in the Catholic Church (cf Lumen Gentium). Some people who are invincibly ignorant of Christ through no fault of their own probably are saved if they have lived a good and virtuous life. And we can’t judge anyone’s eternal soul. But still, there is the requirement of faith and good works. It’s possible that many Nobel Peace Prize winners were not saved since they rejected core tenants of faith. We believe in being saved by sanctifying grace shown by having faith and doing charity, not merely by a kind of works righteousness. The only guarantee of salvation exists within the Catholic Church founded by Christ on the Rock of St. Peter. Fullness almost exists in Orthodoxy (they are very close and we pray for reunion). Some truth exists in the Protestant ecclesial communities, but they have tenets in their faith that are heretical. What you reject is something narrow and Calvinistic, but please don’t go to the other end of the spectrum. Otherwise, there would be no need for Evangelization, no need for the Church, and vis-a-vis the Church, no need for Christ. God forbid.

 

[kristinma]

BillyT92679

My I respectfully refer you to paragraphs 836 – 848 of the Catechism of Catholic Church.

As an example, paragraph 841 reads:

The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day

Paragraph 846 deals with the issue of Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus (outside the church there is no salvation)

Paragraph 848 however affirms our obligation to evangelise.

I have discussed this issue with a number of priests. To the best of my understanding I am not in error. If you believe I am then I would be grateful if you would take the trouble to show me where I have gone wrong.

Certainly I am not making the claim that there is no need for Christ or His Church.

God bless,

Kristin

 

[discipleofJesus]

kristinma:

A number of denominations – among them various Christian fundamentalist groups in the US – promulgate the doctrine that only people who explicitly accept and proclaim Jesus as their Lord & Saviour are “saved.” Every one else is doomed.

Some will make allowances for people who never had an opportunity to hear the Gospel message – eg people belonging to lost tribes in the jungles of Sumatra. But by and large people in “Western” countries – people living in North and South America, Europe or Australasia – who do not proclaim Jesus as Lord & Saviour are doomed to eternal suffering in the fires of hell. So are most Muslims and Hindus.

I’ll call this the Theory Of Near Universal Damnation or TONUD. (Rhymes with “toe” and “bud.”) Under TONUD almost everyone is damned.

You see where TONUD leads? For a Jew, for example, it says most of the six million who died in Hitler’s concentration camps are now suffering an even worse fate at the hands of a “merciful” God. Meanwhile a concentration camp guard who repented before he died is now tasting the delights of heaven.

TONUD means that almost every Nobel Prize winning scientist of the last century is now in hell.

TONUD means that countless good people are now in hell while some real scumbags who wiggled their arms in the air and shouted “Lord, Lord” are in heaven.

TONUD paints a picture of a God as the Big Megalomaniac In The Sky (BMITS – rhymes with “bee” and “fits”). Better a God-free universe than one dominated by BMITS.

But here is the WORST of it. TONUD is not scriptural. That is not what the Bible says. Only by taking certain passages out of context and by ignoring large parts of holy scripture can you believe something like TONUD.

I don’t want to go into a long screed on what the Bible does say, but I’ll give ONE example that tends to counter TONUD.

(Mt 7:21-23)

21"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’

23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Creationism aside, TONUD has probably kept more people away from Jesus than any other false doctrine.

Jesus is NOT BMITS.

BMITS is not the God of the Bible.

TONUD is wrong.

Just had to get that off my chest.

God Bless

Kristin

Hi Kristin,

How does Matthew 7:21-23 show that non-Christians will go to Heaven or that non-Christians won’t go to Hell?

Consider the following verses
“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.”
(John 3:18)

“He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
(John 3:36)

“Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”
5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.”

(John 3:3-5)

“Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.”
(John 6:53-54)

“Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.”
(John 14:6)

“but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.”
(John 20:31)

“He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.”
(Mark 16:16)

“Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
(Acts 4:12)

“that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.”
(Romans 10:9)

cont…

 

[discipleofJesus]

…

“6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.”
(2 Thessalonians 1:6-10)

I do not know for sure how God will deal with non-Christians after judgement. But, in light of these verses, especially John 3:18 and John 3:36, I am inclined to believe that a lot of non-Christians, maybe most or maybe even all of them, will go to Hell, or at least won’t go to Heaven.

 

[inJESUS]

lets not complicate things. We do not know what God will do. But we are sure we are saved if we believe in Jesus and act accordingly…other than this, lets keep it to God. We have guaranty, other dont . simple.

 

[BillyT92679]

kristinma:

BillyT92679

My I respectfully refer you to paragraphs 836 – 848 of the Catechism of Catholic Church.

As an example, paragraph 841 reads:

The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day

Paragraph 846 deals with the issue of Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus (outside the church there is no salvation)

Paragraph 848 however affirms our obligation to evangelise.

I have discussed this issue with a number of priests. To the best of my understanding I am not in error. If you believe I am then I would be grateful if you would take the trouble to show me where I have gone wrong.

Certainly I am not making the claim that there is no need for Christ or His Church.

God bless,

Kristin

I’m not saying you’re off the deep end. I’m just saying that a healthy balance between understanding Divine Mercy, and Divine Justice always has to be maintained. I’m doing this for you, not slapping you on the knuckles.

 

[carol_marie]

I have to agree with Disciple of Jesus (cool name by the way).

While it’s totally up to God who gets into heaven & who doesn’t… throughout the Bible we are told that there is ONLY one narrow path - and that’s through Jesus Christ. For the sake of discussion - let’s set aside those who have, through no fault of their own, never heard the name of Jesus… but what about ALL those others… such as the obviously very smart Nobel Prize Winning Scientists you mentioned… they have obviously been exposed to Jesus Christ while they were alive… what was their response? Did they accept His attonment for their sins or did they reject it?

I don’t believe that anyone gets sent to hell and is able to say, "But I was NEVER told about Jesus… " But I do think that many will end up there who WERE told… over & over again… but through their own free will decided to reject him.

It’s up to us who KNOW Jesus to preach the good news… mostly through our actions - not words. We need to ACT like we are followers of Christ… so that others will see our light & glorify our God! I don’t think it does non-believers any favors by not proclaiming the TRUTH which is found only in Jesus Christ… not in other faiths & not in good works alone.

 

[flameburns623]

What kristinma is describing does not require a new set of acronyms. It already goes under the billing of ‘Limited Atonement’. It is supported by such Scriptural warnings as

Matthew 7: 13-14

13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

John 14:6

6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

A host of other verses have already been cited.

The argument is derived from the first two chapters of Romans where we see that God gives every man the light of conscience and the light of creation. Those who respond to those two sources of light will receive the Light of Christ. In Reformational thought, those who choose God were first chosen and elected by Him for some reasn known only to Him, based in no wise upon any merit or intrinsic goodness within those who consitute the Elect. The Elect are saved for some good purpose of God’s own which He does not deign to reveal to us mortals.

The vast majority of human beings will NOT respond to the first two God-given sources of knowledge. God has decreed that in view of His holiness those who do not accept Him for who He is as revealed in Jesus Christ, and who do not accept that same Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior are culpable for their own sins. So yes, the vast majority of human beings are justly and condinely condemned to hell. God does not owe His creations anything–He is utterly and totally sovereign and we cannot make Him slave to some limited, self-serving human notion of justice or mercy. We don’t get to dictate to God the means by which we may be saved.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church is simply un-Biblical and wrong on this issue, IMHO.

 

[BillyT92679]

flameburns623:

What kristinma is describing does not require a new set of acronyms. It already goes under the billing of ‘Limited Atonement’. It is supported by such Scriptural warnings as

Matthew 7: 13-14

13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

John 14:6

6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

A host of other verses have already been cited.

The argument is derived from the first two chapters of Romans where we see that God gives every man the light of conscience and the light of creation. Those who respond to those two sources of light will receive the Light of Christ. In Reformational thought, those who choose God were first chosen and elected by Him for some reasn known only to Him, based in no wise upon any merit or intrinsic goodness within those who consitute the Elect. The Elect are saved for some good purpose of God’s own which He does not deign to reveal to us mortals.

The vast majority of human beings will NOT respond to the first two God-given sources of knowledge. God has decreed that in view of His holiness those who do not accept Him for who He is as revealed in Jesus Christ, and who do not accept that same Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior are culpable for their own sins. So yes, the vast majority of human beings are justly and condinely condemned to hell. God does not owe His creations anything–He is utterly and totally sovereign and we cannot make Him slave to some limited, self-serving human notion of justice or mercy. We don’t get to dictate to God the means by which we may be saved.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church is simply un-Biblical and wrong on this issue, IMHO.

Your preaching to the wrong choir here. We believe the Catechism is orthodox and completely correct in all counts.

 

[kristinma]

Wow,

I did not expect so many responses. Thank you one and all for your interest. You have all certainly given me food for thought.

BillyT92679, in no sense did I think you were rapping me over the knuckles. And I agree that we need to maintain a balance between divine justice and divine mercy.

Thank you for your concern.

I apologise if anything I have written leads anyone to believe that I am in any way minimising the importance of accepting Jesus as your Lord & Saviour. Twelve years ago I asked Jesus to “take me” - that was the way I put it then. He did. I have never doubted the reality of that experience. Nor have I doubted that it was the biggest, most important, most wonderful and, yes, most FRIGHTENING, event of my life. I had nightmares for about a year afterwards.

I have no idea whether I will get to heaven. If I do it will be due Jesus’ efforts - often acting through the agency of fellow Christians. I’ll certainly have to spend a zillion years in purgatory first.

For now it is enough that Jesus gets me through the day.

My problem with TONUD is PRECISLEY that it keeps so many people from Jesus. That would be fine if it were Catholic doctrine. But it is not. (See, inter alia, paragraphs 836 – 848 of the Catechism).

DiscipleofJesus, I am not going to speculate how many non-Christians, or Christians, will go to hell.

flameburns623, you wrote:

“We don’t get to dictate to God the means by which we may be saved.”

Exactly!

carol marie wrote:

“It’s up to us who KNOW Jesus to preach the good news… mostly through our actions - not words. We need to ACT like we are followers of Christ… so that others will see our light & glorify our God!”

I could not agree more.

Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven. (Mt 5:16)

An awesome responsibility rests on us.

carol marie, I hope you have an untroubled pregnancy. May I pray for you?

I hope I have managed to answer at least some of the questions that were raised. For those of you who do not accept the authority of the Catechism I shall attempt to explain the Biblical reasoning behind paragraphs 836 – 848 in another post. You should bear in mind, though, that I am a lay person. I shall not intentionally lead you into error but if you have any doubts you should consult an expert. Perhaps you could post a question on “Ask an Apologist.”

God bless,

Kristin.

 

[Lapsed]

flameburns623:

We don’t get to dictate to God the means by which we may be saved.

Yet that is precisely what you are doing.

Jesus is the only way. Jesus is both just judge and dispenser of mercy. Who are we to say by what criteria he in his infinite wisdom will judge each individual? The Bible only gives us the merest hint into the mind and purposes of God. It is presumptious of us to pretend that we understand more than the tiniest fraction of God’s thought.

It lays out that those of us who have received the Bible are to believe in Jesus and obey his commandments. What does it mean to believe in Jesus? Does it mean that we have to accept his Divinity, or is it more important that we act in accordance with his will? It is entirely possible that those who do not accept certain points of doctrine yet acknowledge their Creator by living lives of service marked by love will enter into Heaven because they have demonstrated their unclear faith through their actions.

Jesus emphasized that it is our actions that will mark us as his. James reiterated that it is our actions which demonstrate the truth of our hearts. Yes, it is faith that saves us, but it is our actions which demonstrate whether or not we have a living faith. A living faith borne out in action is what saves us.

There are many who by their actions, by doing for the least among us and thus doing for Jesus, even if they profess no faith in word, live a clearer faith than many who profess with their mouths.

Consider the parable of the two sons. The first said he would do as he was asked yet did not. The second said he would not do as he was asked but really did. Which did Jesus hold up as an example? The one who said “No!” but did anyways.