Jesus is not muslim

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jcaz:
That made just abou zero sense. You seem quick to point out “Quraanic problems”. Yet your reply to actual Biblical inconsistencies is that the “teaching body of the church is protected from errors.” I hope this is not your reply when actual errors are presented to you. Very circular logic.

You: There are no errors in the Bible.
Response: Here’s an error.
You: the teaching body of the church is protected from errors.
Response: So what about this error
You: the teaching body of the church is protected form errors.
:whacky:
1] I understand it makes no sense… it is not time for God to open your eyes and ears.

2] Yes the bible is inerrant… but that is not what I said anywhere in my posts. But since you “asked” Mathew 16:18 is part of the bible and is inerrant… thus only the church (not Islam) is protected from declaring as Truth something that is anti-Truth.
 
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jcaz:
I will not disagree with you here.
😉
Nor would anyone else who knows that I thirst for knowledge, and it is a struggle, because there is only one Truth.
 
so, the injuction to “Kill the unbelievers where ever you will find them” might apply to me?
MrS, for now, until you show otherwise, I will assume that you are sincere in asking these questions and are not trying to “set up” anyone. This will be a trust between us and I will respond to your questions while they do remain sincere and genuine.

To answer…

No, this verse does not apply to you. Here are some verses on killing innocent people:

The Qur’an says about the prohibition of murder, (…Take not life, which Allah hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus does He command you, that ye may learn wisdom.) (Al-An`am 6: 151) and Allah says in the Qur’an, (Nor take life, which Allah has made sacred, except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, We have given his heir authority (to demand Qisas or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the law)) (Al-Israa’ 17: 33).

According to the Qur’an, killing any person without a just cause is as big a sin as killing the whole humanity and saving the life of one person is as good deed as saving the whole humanity. See verse 5:32.

But your question still remains. Why is there this verse which says kill them whereever you find them? It is a valid question, and the answer is found by simply reading the **entire verse ** in context.

Here is the full verse, which is obviously important to read the entire verse instead of just a clipping of it (makes for a completely different meaning):
“And fight in the Way of Allaah those who fight you, but transgress not the limits. Truly, Allaah likes not the transgressors. And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out.”
(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:190-191)
When you read these verses, and the ones that come before and afterwards, it becomes clear that the permission is not to kill anyone anywhere. Rather, these verses were revealed by God to Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, when Muslims be attacked by the non-Muslims of Makkah on a daily basis. Using common day jargon, there were constant “terror” attacks on the Muslims from the pagans of Makkah, and in this specific situation, God gave the permission to fight back the terrorist. And even in this permission, notice how much restraint and care is emphasized, as Allaah commands them to not transgress the limits.

So MrS, we see that is it important to not only read an entire verse, but to study the texts within their context. We can take any “religious” book, read verses out of context, and make an entirely new message.

Hope that helps.

Sincerly,

jcaz
 
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jcaz:
To answer…

No, this verse does not apply to you. Here are some verses on killing innocent people:

So MrS, we see that is it important to not only read an entire verse, but to study the texts within their context. We can take any “religious” book, read verses out of context, and make an entirely new message.

Hope that helps.

Sincerly,

jcaz
No, I think you were skirting the issue. I am not asking about killing the innocent, nor am I trying to “set you up”.

It is my understanding that if you are a true Muslim, you must not consider an unbeliver as innocent.

Can I be an unbeliever and also be innocent?
 
This thread is getting off topic.

Please consider posting on topic, or the thread will be closed.
 
I tried this before in bringing it back with regards to the title of this thread as I posted above. Unfortunately I only got a comment on a side analysis I made. And if I may add below …
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sainted:
Why do muslims try and paint the whole history and the world islam? It does seem that it is insecured of itself by itself. Isn’t your belief enough for you people. You even call us muslims only that we haven’t reverted yet. That is mere nonsense.

Why can’t you accept the name “prophet” given to those extraordinary men which they have been called as for centuries? Why can’t you leave Jesus Christ as it is than labeling him as a muslim? Please don’t try tell us how to call them they are as perfect as they have been for centuries. ‘Prophet’ or ‘Jesus’ no muslim attached is just as perfect 👍

Your prophet believed in Him and accepted Him as the greatest. Is it proper for us then to call Muhammad a Chrisitan or more specifically a Protestant Chrisitian. Of course not! You wouldn’t like it. For the same reason please please don’t call our prophets and us muslims…
Commonsense tells us that names only come in descending order never in ascending order.

Can any muslims here claim that his father was named after him other than he’s named after his father?
 
i learned that there is distinction between muslim as arabic word and muslim in islamic sense.

according to a muslim comment, muslim is an arabic word for submission to one God or master. hence jesus is muslim in arabic sense of word because he submits to his God.

jews are muslims is the arabic sense of language because they submit to thier one God (YHWH)

christians are muslim in arabic sense of the word because they submit to thier one God, Father, Son, HolySpirit.

WHEREAS

muslim in islamic sense is submission to one God and recognition of muhammad as prophet .

Jesus preceded muhammad therefore he does not know muhummad. If jesus does not know muhammad it is impossible to recognize him. Jesus foretold about future prophets but its not recognition , its a warning about false prophet.THEREFORE Jesus is not muslim in islamic sense.

HENCE Jesus is not muslim in islamic sense.Thesame is true to all jewish prophets.
 
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memnoch_lover:
i learned that there is distinction between muslim as arabic word and muslim in islamic sense.

according to a muslim comment, muslim is an arabic word for submission to one God or master.** hence jesus is muslim in arabic sense of word because he submits to his God.**

muslim in islamic sense is submission to one God and recognition of muhammad as prophet .

** Jesus preceded muhammad therefore he does not know muhummad. If jesus does not know muhammad it is impossible to recognize him.** Jesus foretold about future prophets but its not recognition , its a warning about false prophet.THEREFORE Jesus is not muslim in islamic sense.

HENCE Jesus is not muslim in islamic sense.Thesame is true to all jewish prophets.
Hence, part of the problem. Jesus IS God. He is not just a man who can submit. We have the free will to submit to Him. He and the Father are One.

To assume He is only man, would allow for the other statement that Jesus would not know Muhammad. On the contrary. As God, Jesus is not restricted by time - even the 600 years between their impacts on history. Yes, Jesus did know Muhammad. And He knew him as a false prophet. And he warned us about him. Our God is an awesome God.
 
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memnoch_lover:
i learned…

HENCE Jesus is not muslim in islamic sense.Thesame is true to all jewish prophets.
what’s clear is that you completely misunderstand everything that’s been said…

[/quote]

read, contemplate and try to understand…
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r.gonzales:
this is probably the simpliest way this can be put… hopefully, he’ll get the picture with this explanation.

Allah’s religion is one. He has called that religion islam, which means submission to His will, His laws and legislations. it is the religion that He sent all of His prophets and messengers with, the religion that they all called to: the worship of Allah alone, without associating any partners with Him in that.

throughout time, Allah has sent His messengers* with certain laws and legislations, each messenger having a slightly different set of laws from the next. some with laws and legislations that completely abrogate the laws that were revealed before them, some with laws and legislations that amend the laws that were revealed before them - whether by restricting them, or lessening their restrictions.

was prophet jesus a muslim following the specific laws and legislations that prophet muhammad was sent with? no, he was a muslim following the specific laws and legislations that he was sent with; laws and legislations that made amendments and abrogated to some of the laws that the messenger before him (moses) was sent with.
    • note: there is a distinction in islamic beliefs with respect to prophets and messengers. all messengers are prophets, but not all prophets are messengers.
 
Jesus was and is God. If a man chooses to place limits on God, it is his free will do think he can.

However. Jesus was not just a man, and had no man-imposed limits. Muhammad did have limits and they are evident in his life. His free will allowed him to derive some of his “teachings” on Christianity,and some on paganism, and some on invention.

This in itself is strange. Islam does not allow for man’s free will, and declares that Allah has predestined everyone.
 
MrS,

You have, on several of your posts, shown that you care not to discuss the subject, but rather, you care only to tell us Muslims what is wrong with Islaam and how Muhammad, peace be upon him, was a false prophet.

So let it be noted that you are the one causing the problem here and you are the one lowering the charity and civility of the discussion.

I hope the moderators will recognize this and edit your posts accordingly and hopefully close this thread.

The thread had a question FOR MUSLIMS. Muslims answered this question. The thread opener now understands the Muslim position, so the thread has been successful.

You are now simply lowering the charity of the thread by pasting your same old garbage which shows that you (a) have no respect in dealing with people of other religions, and (b) are completely ignorant of Islamic teachings.

Good day.
 
This thread is now closed.

Thank you all for your participation.
 
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