Jesus knowledge of His divinity

[yinekka]

Did Jesus know He was God? If so, when. An Advent letter from one of our bishops implies that He came to this knowledge gradually.

 

[LilyM]

Difficult to say without knowing the actual wording of the letter.
If one carefully examines the Temple episode when Jesus is 12 - he certainly knows that he is the Son of God and not of Joseph. And he knows from the story of his birth as well that he is the Messiah and King.

But the very next passage after he is found in the Temple says after returning to Nazareth with Mary and Joseph he ‘grew in age and wisdom and favour before God and man’. So there’s the implication that possibly he didn’t know everything perfectly to start off with.

 

[Linuse]

I disagree with you whole-heartedly. The incident in the temple in no way shows that He knows He was God. It is a nice very human story, which Luke uses as an introduction to the Gospel. The most that story shows is that Jesus was a bright kid as one learning his faith.

 

[Cranch]

I heard a deacon once say the same thing as this bishop. I think it’s fashionable in theological circles but I still don’t think I buy it. It doesn’t make sense if you believe Jesus was both fully God and fully human.

John 1:1 -
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 -

And **the Word **was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

How does God keep knowledge of Himself from Himself? This theory would seem to give early precedence to Jesus’ human nature.

 

[Fidelis]

(Here is my answer from a previous thread on the same topic

When in doubt, always find solace in official Church teaching.
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

**Christ’s soul and his human knowledge **
471 Apollinarius of Laodicaea asserted that in Christ the divine Word had replaced the soul or spirit. Against this error the Church confessed that the eternal Son also assumed a rational, human soul.[100]

472 This human soul that the Son of God assumed is endowed with a true human knowledge. As such, this knowledge could not in itself be unlimited: it was exercised in the historical conditions of his existence in space and time. This is why the Son of God could, when he became man, “increase in wisdom and in stature, and in favor with God and man”,[101] and would even have to inquire for himself about what one in the human condition can learn only from experience.[102] This corresponded to the reality of his voluntary emptying of himself, taking “the form of a slave”.[103]

473 But at the same time, this truly human knowledge of God’s Son expressed the divine life of his person.[104] “The human nature of God’s Son, not by itself but by its union with the Word, knew and showed forth in itself everything that pertains to God.”[105] Such is first of all the case with the intimate and immediate knowledge that the Son of God made man has of his Father.[106] The Son in his human knowledge also showed the divine penetration he had into the secret thoughts of human hearts.[107]

474 By its union to the divine wisdom in the person of the Word incarnate, Christ enjoyed in his human knowledge the fullness of understanding of the eternal plans he had come to reveal.[108] What he admitted to not knowing in this area, he elsewhere declared himself not sent to reveal.[109]

100 Cf. Damasus 1: ds 149.
101 Lk 2:52.
102 Cf. Mk 6 38; 8 27; Jn 11:34; etc.
103 Phil 2:7.
104 Cf. St. Gregory the Great, “Sicut aqua” ad Eulogium, Epist. Lib. 10, 39 PL 77, 1097A ff.; ds 475.
105 St. Maximus the Confessor, Qu. et dub. 66: PG 90, 840A.
106 Cf. Mk 14:36; Mt 11:27; Jn 1:18; 8:55; etc.
107 Cf. Mk 2:8; Jn 2 25; 6:61; etc.
108 Cf. Mk 8:31; 9:31; 10:33-34; 14:18-20, 26-30.
109 Cf. Mk 13:32, Acts 1:

 

[Cranch]

(Here is my answer from a previous thread on the same topic

When in doubt, always find solace in official Church teaching.
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church…

Thanks, Fidelis! It is a joy to continually learn how deeply our Church has thought about and expounded on the truth of God through the grace of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Charybdis]

Yup, CCC #474 that’s the one I refer people to: "474 By its union to the divine wisdom in the person of the Word incarnate, Christ enjoyed in his human knowledge the fullness of understanding of the eternal plans he had come to reveal.[108] What he admitted to not knowing in this area, he elsewhere declared himself not sent to reveal.[109]

 

[Angelos]

Since Jesus had one single personality, and that personality was purely divine, He absolutely knew who He was! Jesus was not an unconscious man until some period in His life. “Growing in wisdom” refers to His getting acquainted with the human world as a human! Jesus learnt many things related to the domain of immortals because He shared humanity in a unique and transcending way! For instance, He learnt the Torah and the Prophets like every other human! Becoming equal to us in everything, He became our Savior and Lord. Glory to Him.

Peace,

Angelos N.

 

[rpp]

Since Jesus had one single personality, and that personality was purely divine, He absolutely knew who He was! Jesus was not an unconscious man until some period in His life. “Growing in wisdom” refers to His getting acquainted with the human world as a human! Jesus learnt many things related to the domain of immortals because He shared humanity in a unique and transcending way! For instance, He learnt the Torah and the Prophets like every other human! Becoming equal to us in everything, He became our Savior and Lord. Glory to Him.

Peace,

Angelos N.

I think, though of course I may be mistaken, that Our Lord was a mystical mix of human and Divine. 100% human and 100% divine. A combination that we cannot really understand.

The “single personality” mentioned here is not quite how I think most would out it. Nor would I suggest the Jusus had "multiple-personalities in the psychological sense.

 

[Nita]

The “single personality” mentioned here is not quite how I think most would out it. Nor would I suggest the Jusus had "multiple-personalities in the psychological sense.

If by “personality” Angelos meant “person”, then that is what the Church teaches: In Jesus there were two natures (divine and human) but ONLY ONE person (divine), and that person is the Second Person of the Trinity.

As to whether Jesus knew He was God or not, I can’t see how anyone could doubt that He had such knowledge. Even we humans know at a very young age that we are human and not animal. To think that Jesus, who was God, would have less ability to recognize His true nature than we, seems almost blasphemous.

Nita

 

[Angelos]

If by “personality” Angelos meant “person”, then that is what the Church teaches: In Jesus there were two natures (divine and human) but ONLY ONE person (divine), and that person is the Second Person of the Trinity.

As to whether Jesus knew He was God or not, I can’t see how anyone could doubt that He had such knowledge. Even we humans know at a very young age that we are human and not animal. To think that Jesus, who was God, would have less ability to recognize His true nature than we, seems almost blasphemous.

Nita

 

[Valke2]

If by “personality” Angelos meant “person”, then that is what the Church teaches: In Jesus there were two natures (divine and human) but ONLY ONE person (divine), and that person is the Second Person of the Trinity.

As to whether Jesus knew He was God or not, I can’t see how anyone could doubt that He had such knowledge. Even we humans know at a very young age that we are human and not animal. To think that Jesus, who was God, would have less ability to recognize His true nature than we, seems almost blasphemous.

Nita

That God would need his diapers changed, etc., also seems blasphemous.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

It isn’t blasphemous if one believes that God could (and did) become the God-Man. Fully human, yet fully God.

In fact, it is remarkably humbling that God came down to us, as Isaiah prophesied.

 

[Valke2]

It isn’t blasphemous if one believes that God could (and did) become the God-Man. Fully human, yet fully God.

In fact, it is remarkably humbling that God came down to us, as Isaiah prophesied.

Ok. Then why would it be blasphemous to believe Jesus wasn’t aware of his divinity?

 

[TOME]

Nita,
Your explanation of the two natures/one person is seriously flawed when you wrote that only one person (divine). The person is Jesus with two natures.

One of the problems when trying to understand Jesus’ knowledge of his divinity comes from the philosophical understanding that the finite cannot grasp the infinite. If this is true, then how could Jesus’ human understanding comprehend his divinity?

Human knowledge (the ability to understand truth), as St. Thomas Aquinas pointed out, comes from reason and intellect. Reason is based on sense knowledge while the intellect grasp the truth intuitively. Still, it is finite knowledge therefore limited.

So what was Jesus’ knowledge of his divinity? I don’t know.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Apples and oranges, Valke. Jesus is not “just” human, He is divine as well. He didn’t have two completely ‘separate’ personas, one of which was ‘aware’ of its divinity, and the other completely ‘unaware.’

We refer to the mystery of Christ being both fully God and fully man as the “Hypostatic Union”.

A union. Not two ‘separations’ but a union.

 

[Nita]

Nita,
Your explanation of the two natures/one person is seriously flawed when you wrote that only one person (divine).

I would refer you to the CCC #468. Quote:

…Against them, the fifth ecumenical council at Constantinople in 553 confessed that "there is but one hypostasis [or person], which is our Lord Jesus Christ, one of the Trinity. Thus everything in Christ’s human nature is to be attributed to his divine person as its proper subject, not only his miracles but also his sufferings and even his death…

(Underlining is mine)
The whole section in the Catechism on Our Lord’s Incarnation is very informative and beautiful.

The following is the definition given in the back of the Catechism in the Glossary:
Hypostatic Union: The union of the divine and human natures in the one divine person (Greek: hypostasis) of the Son of God, Jesus Christ.

Now, that is the infallible teaching of the Church. I’ve reread my post and I can’t see anything that contradicts it. If you still think it does, please let me know where and in what way - because I accept, absolutely, the Church’s teaching as truth and would never want to contradict it.

Nita

 

[Nita]

That God would need his diapers changed, etc., also seems blasphemous.

Not at all. He chose to become incarnate in a regular human body - starting out as a newborn babe - and needing diapers is a normal requirement for a baby.

Nita

 

[scott1228]

If you are really interested, Fr. William Most wrote an excellent book on the subject.

That the Lord didn’t know who he was is just one more idea from the modernist tool-box.

 

[Valke2]

My point was if it wasn’t blasphemous to believe God needed his diapers changed, then why would it be blasphemous to believe that Jesus wasn’t aware of his divinity?