Jesus, lds prophets old and new

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Tom, here is the thing.

First, I am not a disaffected Mormon. I left the LDS Church when I studied the LDS Church and old doctrines and teachings. I left after discovering js had at least versions of a first vision. I left after finding out the lds temple ceremony was almost word for word, sign for sign as the masonic ceremony…and that it came to be shortly after js became a mason. I left after discovering the Adam-God theory. And that was just the tip of the iceberg. I could go on and on. And there was no internet back then. All my studies came from LDS books.

I felt deceived. But am I disaffected? No.

I have long maintained on this forum that two of the best years in my life were my mission years in Honduras. I have stated on more than occasion that I miss the camaraderie of the LDS Church…the closeness to the members, the activities, the Home Teachings, the Firesides. I miss it a lot. Even after almost 25 years.

I still watch GC. Two of my very best friends are LDS and we debate all the time…one of them lives in Utah and he constantly has my name in the Temple for prayer.

So, no, I hold no ill will. I hold no grudges. I am not disaffected. I have said more than once that I truly wish it was true.

But it isn’t. And I feel, as does my Priest, that my calling is to warn. To tell the truth about Mormonism. To make sure people know ALL the facts…as most facts are not taught to investigators.

Anyway, that is in response to your characterizations of ex-lds
 
TOmNossor said:
Something must be wrong with iepuras if she left the faith, because all is well in Zion! I am sorry.
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Wow. Just wow. Other than the fact that I am a sinner, just like you, there is nothing “wrong” with me. Why do you always make it personal? It’s not your fault that you think this way because your prophets have told you there is something wrong with those who leave the LDS. It has nothing to do with the man behind the curtain!
 
iepuras said:
Wow. Just wow. Other than the fact that I am a sinner, just like you, there is nothing “wrong” with me. Why do you always make it personal? It’s not your fault that you think this way because your prophets have told you there is something wrong with those who leave the LDS. It has nothing to do with the man behind the curtain!
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Please re read what I wrote. You took it 180 from what I meant.
 
taylorf said:
Again…you say this…
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RIGHT AFTER you said…

Hopefully just another circumstance of poor communication.
Taylorf,
Yes, that was intended to be linked to the first part and sandwiched by “because all is well in Zion.” Thanks Taylorf.
Here is the full quote:
TOmNossor said:
I can say that there is an unfortunate trait possessed by many of my co-religionist and myself. Believing the CoJCoLDS is true there is a tendency to want to assign less than flattering reasons upon the departures of people we know. This is often unfair and seldom charitable. It betrays our collective or individual insecurity. Something must be wrong with iepuras if she left the faith, because all is well in Zion! I am sorry.
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All,
I have read and re-read this and re-read this. If iepuras and Infinatemaximus read it and re-read it (and even read it after I claimed it meant precisely the opposite of what ierpuras initially thought it meant), I am not sure what I can do.
So I want to know. If what I wrote is read with a little effort to believe I am not a monster, is it not obvious that I am offering an olive branch not a stick? If not, I have little hope that my genuine criticisms of the arguments made against my church will be heard.
So, I do want to know. Please answer for me.
Charity, TOm
 
iepuras said:
Wow. Just wow. Other than the fact that I am a sinner, just like you, there is nothing “wrong” with me. Why do you always make it personal? It’s not your fault that you think this way because your prophets have told you there is something wrong with those who leave the LDS. It has nothing to do with the man behind the curtain!
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Tom was being facetious. He wasn’t really saying there is anything wrong with you. He was illustrating how those LDS think.

Paul
 
I was a convert to the LDS Church. I left when it became clear that what I read about plural marriage and the Book of Mormon were white-washed church propaganda. Once I found out Joseph Smith was out marrying teens and the wives of his apostles it was hard for me to see that as the version given to me when I joined the LDS Church. I think the final straw was finding that mtDNA of Native Americans showed they didn’t have anything to do with ancient Israelites. I also read a book by B.H. Roberts about the Book of Mormon in which he asked a lot of questions he couldn’t get answered by the LDS apostles and prophets.

After going through a fairly lengthy period of evangelical Protestantism I wound up looking into the Catholic Church where many of my questions were answered. Of course we’ll always have questions on this side of eternity. I suspect most Mormons are going to qualify to go to heaven based on a baptism of desire, but that’s more of a hope than a fact. I’m just happy God brought me to the Catholic Church!
 
JamesCollins said:
I was a convert to the LDS Church. I left when it became clear that what I read about plural marriage and the Book of Mormon were white-washed church propaganda. Once I found out Joseph Smith was out marrying teens and the wives of his apostles it was hard for me to see that as the version given to me when I joined the LDS Church. I think the final straw was finding that mtDNA of Native Americans showed they didn’t have anything to do with ancient Israelites. I also read a book by B.H. Roberts about the Book of Mormon in which he asked a lot of questions he couldn’t get answered by the LDS apostles and prophets.

After going through a fairly lengthy period of evangelical Protestantism I wound up looking into the Catholic Church where many of my questions were answered. Of course we’ll always have questions on this side of eternity. I suspect most Mormons are going to qualify to go to heaven based on a baptism of desire, but that’s more of a hope than a fact. I’m just happy God brought me to the Catholic Church!
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Welcome to the Catholic Church!!! 🙂
 
TOmNossor said:
So I want to know. If what I wrote is read with a little effort to believe I am not a monster, is it not obvious that I am offering an olive branch not a stick? If not, I have little hope that my genuine criticisms of the arguments made against my church will be heard.
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Ah, I see it now. Sorry…I had to re-read a few time to get what you saying. I usually pick up on this pretty completely, but in this case I completely missed it. No worries.
 
taylorf said:
Ah, I see it now. Sorry…I had to re-read a few time to get what you saying. I usually pick up on this pretty completely, but in this case I completely missed it. No worries.
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Thank you TaylorF and PaulDupre!
And, JamesCollins, congratulations, you have found the church that is the second most likely to be true ! But really congratulations.
I am much more discouraged by folks who cease to believe in God than by folks who embrace a different tradition. I once got a Protestant friend of mine to give the Catholic Church a second shot before he moved towards Atheism. Unfortunately it was a short detour.
Charity, TOm
 
TOmNossor said:
Taylorf,
Yes, that was intended to be linked to the first part and sandwiched by “because all is well in Zion.” Thanks Taylorf.
Here is the full quote:

All,
I have read and re-read this and re-read this. If iepuras and Infinatemaximus read it and re-read it (and even read it after I claimed it meant precisely the opposite of what ierpuras initially thought it meant), I am not sure what I can do.
So I want to know. If what I wrote is read with a little effort to believe I am not a monster, is it not obvious that I am offering an olive branch not a stick? If not, I have little hope that my genuine criticisms of the arguments made against my church will be heard.
So, I do want to know. Please answer for me.
Charity, TOm
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When I read your post, I thought it was charitable until the last sentence. If you had used an emoticon such as this one 😉 or :p, I would have gotten your real intent. Sarcasm does not come across well unless you are clear about it.

No hard feelings.
 
iepuras said:
When I read your post, I thought it was charitable until the last sentence. If you had used an emoticon such as this one 😉 or :p, I would have gotten your real intent. Sarcasm does not come across well unless you are clear about it.

No hard feelings.
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Thank you. I really didn’t mean to offend, sorry that I did.
I am not much of an emotocon person. The best I ever get to is which I know does not convert.
Charity, TOm
 
iepuras said:
How about you guess which anti-Mormon organizations and websites I frequented as part of my research. FAIR and FARMS/Maxwell Institute. I wanted to go straight to the apologetic, I mean, anti-Mormon source.

Why don’t you also guess where I first heard all those **** quotes from the Journal of Discourses that were taken out of context by critics of the LDS church. That’s right, BYU religion classes! Who knew that the BYU religion department is full of nasty anti-Mormons!

Here’s the thing. Many people who leave the LDS church get all their “anti-Mormon” information directly from LDS sources.
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