Jesus Led me to Islam

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oat_soda said:
The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit are all the same in essence, or they all are of the same substance, the difference lies in how they relate to one another. The Father eternally proceeds his Son, and the Holy Spirit eternally proceeds from the Father through the Son. in this sense, the Father is greather then the Son. Not in nature, but in realtionship.

here is a good link i found on the subject.

the essence of heresy is to take one or two verses by themselves, and take an extreme interpretation of them to the exclusion of all other scriptures. catholics do not interpret scriptures this way. we look at everything. just look above at all of the verses that clearly show Christs equating himself with the Father.
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In other words, something outside of the bible is used to explain a doctrine that people want to believe.

Or, Jesus was not God.

It’s extrodinary to me, how people rationalize these things. You are taught that Jesus is god, and that is the truth. To maintain that truth, and help people “stomach” the obvious contradiction you will introduce the concept of a “relationship” to make it all add up. You’ve been taught Jesus is god, and therefore there MUST be an explanation…and there you have it. It’s all about the “relations” between the trinity.

Or…Jesus was a man.

The authors of religion are brilliant. They really are.
 
Dameedna said:
In other words, something outside of the bible is used to explain a doctrine that people want to believe.

Or, Jesus was not God.

It’s extrodinary to me, how people rationalize these things. You are taught that Jesus is god, and that is the truth. To maintain that truth, and help people “stomach” the obvious contradiction you will introduce the concept of a “relationship” to make it all add up. You’ve been taught Jesus is god, and therefore there MUST be an explanation…and there you have it. It’s all about the “relations” between the trinity.

Or…Jesus was a man.

The authors of religion are brilliant. They really are.
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Or maybe Jesus was both a God and a man, eh? Honestly I think he’s got both parts to him. The part of him that is human wouldn’t necessarily show human weaknesses, but rather human strengths. The part of him that is God allows him to perform miracles and so on. I don’t completely understand the Trinity concept, so I’m sure somebody can explain that better than I am able to.

When you look at it, different religions accept different extremes of who Christ is. Some will say, “Jesus was only a God. There is nothing human about him.” Others will say. “Jesus was a man only. He was a good man, but little more than a prophet.” Yet others will say, “Jesus is a myth.” Even further, a Satanist will claim that Satan is the hero and Jesus is the devil. I say, “Decide for yourself.” …or don’t decide at all. It’s up to you what you believe.
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi

Islam is a peaceful religion; Muhammad never killed anybody for that, it is only a misconception.

[109:7] 'For you your religion, and for me my religion.
www3.alislam.org/showChapter.jsp?ch=109

You may read following articles if you like.

• Jihad of the Pen alislam.org/library/links/00000064.html
• Jihad with Sword alislam.org/jihad/sword.html

Thanks
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Bukhari:V5B59N512 “The Prophet had their men killed, their woman and children taken captive.”

Ishaq:489 “Do the bastards think that we are not their equal in fighting? We are men who think that there is no shame in killing.”

Bukhari:V4B52N270 “Allah’s Messenger said, ‘Who is ready to kill Ashraf? He has said injurious things about Allah and His Apostle.’ Maslama got up saying, ‘Would you like me to kill him?’ The Prophet proclaimed, ‘Yes.’ Maslama said, ‘Then allow me to lie so that I will be able to deceive him.’ Muhammad said, ‘You may do so.’”

shaq:368 “Ka’b’s body was left prostrate [humbled in submission]. After his fall, all of the Nadir Jews were brought low. Sword in hand we cut him down. By Muhammad’s order we were sent secretly by night. Brother killing brother. We lured him to his death with guile [cunning or deviousness]. Traveling by night, bold as lions, we went into his home. We made him taste death with our deadly swords. We sought victory for the religion of the Prophet.”
Tabari VII:97
Ishaq:368 “We carried Ka’b’s head and brought it to Muhammad during the night. We saluted him as he stood praying and told him that we had slain Allah’s enemy. When he came out to us we cast Ashraf’s head before his feet. The Prophet praised Allah that the poet had been assassinated and complimented us on the good work we had done in Allah’s Cause. Our attack upon Allah’s enemy cast terror among the Jews, and there was no Jew in Medina who did not fear for his life.’”
Tabari VII:97 “The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, ‘Kill any Jew who falls under your power.’”
Ishaq:369 “Thereupon Mas’ud leapt upon Sunayna, one of the Jewish merchants with whom his family had social and commercial relations and killed him. The Muslim’s brother complained, saying, ‘Why did you kill him? You have much fat in you belly from his charity.’ Mas’ud answered, ‘By Allah, had Muhammad ordered me to murder you, my brother, I would have cut off your head.’ Wherein the brother said, ‘Any religion that can bring you to this is indeed wonderful!’ And he accepted Islam.”
Bukhari:V1B1N6 “Just issue orders to kill every Jew in the country.”
Ishaq: 676 “‘You obey a stranger who encourages you to murder for booty. You are greedy men. Is there no honor among you?’ Upon hearing those lines Muhammad said, ‘Will no one rid me of this woman?’ Umayr, a zealous Muslim, decided to execute the Prophet’s wishes. That very night he crept into the writer’s home while she lay sleeping surrounded by her young children. There was one at her breast. Umayr removed the suckling babe and then plunged his sword into the poet. The next morning in the mosque, Muhammad, who was aware of the assassination, said, ‘You have helped Allah and His Apostle.’ Umayr said. ‘She had five sons; should I feel guilty?’ ‘No,’ the Prophet answered. ‘Killing her was as meaningless as two goats butting heads.’”

more at:prophetofdoom.net/Islamic_Quotes_Murder.Islam
 
thedavidwilson said:
Your might also want to check out blogging the quran (jihadwatch.org/articles/bloggingtheq.php)). This guy is going sur by sura explaining what Islamic scholars have said on the text and how it is/was interpreted by muslims.
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These are a lot of lies. For example:

Quran 11:5 Lo! now they fold up their breasts that they may hide (their thoughts) from Him. At the very moment when they cover themselves with their clothing, Allah knoweth that which they keep hidden and that which they proclaim. Lo! He is Aware of what is in the breasts (of men).

It is referring to trying to hide your sins from God. But the blog says it means this:

Verse 5 contains a strange statement: “At the very moment when they cover themselves with their clothing, Allah knows that which they keep hidden and that which they proclaim.” What would covering themselves with clothing have to do with Allah knowing them? Well, it appears that some people wore clothes to conceal themselves from Allah, particularly during intimate moments: Ibn Abbas explains that “there were people who used to be shy to remove their clothes while answering the call of nature in an open space and thus be naked exposed to the sky. They were also ashamed of having sexual relations with their women due to fear of being exposed towards the sky. Thus, this was revealed concerning them.”

So he twists the idea of trying to hide your sins from God into something perverted about having sex. When it is really about something like this:

Revelation 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

So that blog is nonsense.
 
FaithofAbraham said:
These are a lot of lies. For example:

Quran 11:5 Lo! now they fold up their breasts that they may hide (their thoughts) from Him. At the very moment when they cover themselves with their clothing, Allah knoweth that which they keep hidden and that which they proclaim. Lo! He is Aware of what is in the breasts (of men).

It is referring to trying to hide your sins from God. But the blog says it means this:

Verse 5 contains a strange statement: “At the very moment when they cover themselves with their clothing, Allah knows that which they keep hidden and that which they proclaim.” What would covering themselves with clothing have to do with Allah knowing them? Well, it appears that some people wore clothes to conceal themselves from Allah, particularly during intimate moments: Ibn Abbas explains that “there were people who used to be shy to remove their clothes while answering the call of nature in an open space and thus be naked exposed to the sky. They were also ashamed of having sexual relations with their women due to fear of being exposed towards the sky. Thus, this was revealed concerning them.”

So he twists the idea of trying to hide your sins from God into something perverted about having sex. When it is really about something like this:

Revelation 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

So that blog is nonsense.
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Robert Spencer is only quoting islamic scholars. So are you saying Ibn Abbas is not a reputable scholar and a liar. Can you produce articles or references that attest to this?
 
thedavidwilson said:
Robert Spencer is only quoting islamic scholars. So are you saying Ibn Abbas is not a reputable scholar and a liar. Can you produce articles or references that attest to this?
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It is apparently Hadith, Muslim apocrypha which some Muslims accept others reject. Anyone with basic understanding of metaphor knows that covering nakedness refers to hiding sin, starting with fig leaves for Adam and Eve. So the blog is just parroting nonsense of someone who doesn’t know the use of symbolism.
 
FaithofAbraham said:
It is apparently Hadith, Muslim apocrypha which some Muslims accept others reject. Anyone with basic understanding of metaphor knows that covering nakedness refers to hiding sin, starting with fig leaves for Adam and Eve. So the blog is just parroting nonsense of someone who doesn’t know the use of symbolism.
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I believe the verse Spencer is discussing is from the Quran. That is why the site is called Blogging the Quran not Blogging the Hadith.

You still have not given me evidence that this islamic scholar that Spencer quotes is a liar. Please proceed.
 
thedavidwilson said:
I believe the verse Spencer is discussing is from the Quran. That is why the site is called Blogging the Quran not Blogging the Hadith.

You still have not given me evidence that this islamic scholar that Spencer quotes is a liar. Please proceed.
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Ibn Abbas is Hadith which is musings and speculations on what the Quran means. Are you saying you never heard of covering sins symbolically compared to covering nakedness?
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi

Islam is a peaceful religion; Muhammad never killed anybody for that, it is only a misconception.

[109:7] 'For you your religion, and for me my religion.
www3.alislam.org/showChapter.jsp?ch=109

You may read following articles if you like.

• Jihad of the Pen alislam.org/library/links/00000064.html
• Jihad with Sword alislam.org/jihad/sword.html

Thanks
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Brother Paarsurrey,

how beautifull the world have been if all your brother muslim would think as you do.
Is there the case that your sect is telling also that a muslim sould not be killed if converts to other religion?
My conclusion form this story and the discussions is that it is not a problem if one converto to another religion, islam included. Everyone is free to search for the Truth, for what would give full meaning to his/her life. The only problem is that the muslim religion does not aloud you to change your mind! And I think that constraint on the other freedom is a lack of love and respect to the other and to God Himself, because He create all of us from love and gave each of us our freedom.
God bless you, because you are a good soul!
Adelaida
 
The thing is, all of the quotes come from the mouths of Muslims describing what had just happened.

How much worse was it really if we had got the truth from the slaughtered innocents ? And what stuff did they not tell us about ?

And this was God ?

I know i’m going to sit back and just laugh soon at these muslim marketing threads but i’m still in the p*ssed off phase after coming out of the introductory conciliatory phase.

Beginning of post :

I don’t like Christianity because …

bilble quote 1 … bible quote 2 … bible quote 3 … etc.

(goes on for many many paragraphs)

… Then i read the Koran and found the truth so now i am muslim.

yeah, that sounds like a well thought out reason - koran is truth - why ? - koran is truth - why ? - koran is truth - why ? - koran is …

Sounds like the mentality of a muslim.

Only a muslim could write that and think that no further explanation was needed.
 
Two points:
  1. Anyone who says they picked up the Qur’an and it brought them to Islam is lying. The Qur’an is full of errors: in history, science and in text (i.e. many surahs contradict each other on key facts and details). When people say “the Qur’an brought me to Islam” what they most likely mean is someone convinced them to consider Islam and proved their schpiel with certain “warm-and-fuzzy” passages from the Qur’an.
  2. Islam IS the Fastest Growing religion…in the US and Western Europe. In Asia, Africa and South America it is still Christianity. In China, Christians will outnumber Communist party members by the end of the decade.
The reason Islam is “growing” in the West has more to do with shifting human migration patterns, namely for the past 2 decades Muslims have been migrating west and bringing with them their propensity to have large families. But the amount of western converts, while a significant phenomenon when we consider people like Johnny Walker Lindh, Jose Padilla, Richard Reid etc, do not account for Islam’s “growth” in the west.
 
Hi Deusdonat,

i heard early last year that the Chinese minister for culture (or equivalent) estimated that there were currently 140 million Christians in China.

Did you have any news of what’s happening there ?
 
Christ led me out of indifference into his loving embrace. Now he has seen it fit to lead me to the fullness of truth found in the Catholic Church, which holds the sacraments through which I might touch and experience God. He, my Lover, reaches out to me–and I to him.

I sincerely hope your friend draws close to God. I think the Qur’an is beautiful and in a great many ways reveals God in his goodness and grace–though I’m far from calling it perfect. I remain convinced of the truth of the Church, but I realize that God has a way of drawing us nigh no matter where we find ourselves spiritually. So I pray your friend will experience God and will know him intimately.

I hope to see her in Heaven.
 
abucs said:
Hi Deusdonat,

i heard early last year that the Chinese minister for culture (or equivalent) estimated that there were currently 140 million Christians in China.

Did you have any news of what’s happening there ?
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Abucs, it’s anyone’s guess as to what is really happening there. What goes on in the countryside is different than what goes on in the cities, and what takes place in the official Patriotic Catholic Church doesn’t factor in what takes place in “underground” churches. Even the Vatican doesn’t release a lot of information on what goes on in China in order to protect the innocent.
 
whatever makes you happy. Still does not change who God really is and when i look at the life around me i realise how much missery and trouble there is. I dont know why this is all happening for what reason?
 
will Jesus led me from islam to christianity

I guess your Jesus is fake since the quran is quoting fake religious text such us Jesus created bird from clay (infancy gospel 3rd century ) talking when he was cradle (arabic infancy gospel 5th century ) and the seven sleepers (syriac church legend ) and many others quotations from the Talmud !!
 
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