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discipleofJesus
Guest
no, they cannot be interpreted that way. the passages i quoted are clear.
- Status
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Shenango
Guest
That’s your subjective reality…
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discipleofJesus
Guest
no it’s not, it’s the objective reality.
F
Friars_Minor
Guest
gurrato alaien:
On your first comment, you mentioned that “The trinity concept (3 in one God) made no logical sense”. To be straight out, anyone who believes in ANY God makes no LOGICAL sense, but it is the faith that makes sense of it all. Even with some things that are hard to comprehend, it is the faith which makes it all right and understanding. Divine thinking cannot equate to human thinking. God is beyond our limits.
Muslims are restricted in answering the question, “what was God doing before he created man”. The reason why they are restricting in answering this question is because no one knows and it’s non of our business! Who are we to ask God questions or try to answer things beyond our knowledge or capacity of thinking?
I have no problems with Muslims respecting and loving Jesus, but isn’t it ironic how some Muslims still turn around and make fun of and ridicule Jesus to Christians, restricting Christians from living their faith in Muslim countries such as Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and much more, That is what makes no sense! I’ve had Muslims calling me/us “wood” (because Jesus died on a wooden cross) I don’t call that respect!.
On your first comment, you mentioned that “The trinity concept (3 in one God) made no logical sense”. To be straight out, anyone who believes in ANY God makes no LOGICAL sense, but it is the faith that makes sense of it all. Even with some things that are hard to comprehend, it is the faith which makes it all right and understanding. Divine thinking cannot equate to human thinking. God is beyond our limits.
Muslims are restricted in answering the question, “what was God doing before he created man”. The reason why they are restricting in answering this question is because no one knows and it’s non of our business! Who are we to ask God questions or try to answer things beyond our knowledge or capacity of thinking?
G
George_Waters
Guest
Friars Minor:
Peace,
George
Well said Brother!
Peace,
George
L
Lillith
Guest
gurrato alaien's Christian who embraced Islam:
I think she meant to say “It does NOT take…”
That being said…It does NOT take a “genious” to find a dictionary and spell the word genius correctly…
Usually I’m not so petty…but if your going to be offensive…calling people stupid for believing in the trinity…you should at least make sure that you haven’t left out important words…and the spelling of genius would have to be a high priority.
I think she meant to say “It does NOT take…”
That being said…It does NOT take a “genious” to find a dictionary and spell the word genius correctly…
Usually I’m not so petty…but if your going to be offensive…calling people stupid for believing in the trinity…you should at least make sure that you haven’t left out important words…and the spelling of genius would have to be a high priority.
A
asteroid
Guest
gurrato alaien:
T
tomaskovarik
Guest
You know, I tell you something. I also went through many religions, until I realized that there is only one person who died for my sins. And it was not Muhammed, it was Jesus. In Islam we are judged accordingly to what we do, in Christianity we are judged accordingly to how we respond to Jesus.
Jesus will plead for me (sinner) when the time arrives, who will plead for you as a Moslim?
Now, you have presented ( I mean the original writer), why she found illogical that Jesus is God, she pointed out the verses which suggests that he is lesser than God.
Now, first of all, there are verses which counterbalanced this, indicating very strongly that Jesus (the internal “I am”) is the only begotten son of God, consubstantial with the father.
When he appeared down here, he “emptied himself” for our sake and in this form he subjected himself to his Father in heaven. In this sense we have to understand the biblical verses.
Jesus doesn’t lead anyone to Islam, that is a logical contradiction. But I bet you, he will patiently wait and when the time is ripe, he will lead your sister back to Himself, to God, who is Christ.
I am convinced of this and you should pray for the light. And let me repeat, the is ONLY one man who died so that I can live.
Tomas
Jesus will plead for me (sinner) when the time arrives, who will plead for you as a Moslim?
Now, you have presented ( I mean the original writer), why she found illogical that Jesus is God, she pointed out the verses which suggests that he is lesser than God.
Now, first of all, there are verses which counterbalanced this, indicating very strongly that Jesus (the internal “I am”) is the only begotten son of God, consubstantial with the father.
When he appeared down here, he “emptied himself” for our sake and in this form he subjected himself to his Father in heaven. In this sense we have to understand the biblical verses.
Jesus doesn’t lead anyone to Islam, that is a logical contradiction. But I bet you, he will patiently wait and when the time is ripe, he will lead your sister back to Himself, to God, who is Christ.
I am convinced of this and you should pray for the light. And let me repeat, the is ONLY one man who died so that I can live.
Tomas
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Daniel_Marsh
Guest
II cor 11
3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
Galatians 1:6-8
6I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!
and, thus Muhammad is in Hell.
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tomaskovarik
Guest
Daniel Marsh:
I hope you were just kidding by saying that! Thats not something you really want to say even to a sincere Moslim who will eventually find Jesus. Such statements could work against Jesus ultimately, as he is trying to show to that person that Christianity is the only way.
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discipleofJesus
Guest
’For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.’
(John 3:16)
‘When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”’
(John 8:12)
’Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.’
(Matthew 28:19-20)
‘But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.’
(Acts 1:8)
‘And behold, there was a man in Jerusalem whose name was Simeon, and this man was just and devout, waiting for the Consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was upon him. 26 And it had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not see death before he had seen the Lord’s Christ. 27 So he came by the Spirit into the temple. And when the parents brought in the Child Jesus, to do for Him according to the custom of the law, 28 he took Him up in his arms and blessed God and said:
29 “ Lord, now You are letting Your servant depart in peace,
According to Your word;
30 For my eyes have seen Your salvation
31 Which You have prepared before the face of all peoples,
32** A light to bring revelation to the Gentiles,
And the glory of Your people Israel**.”’
(Luke 2:25-32)
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Paris_Blues
Guest
Say, what year was it when Muhammend was to be had here?
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exoflare
Guest
Daniel Marsh:
Don’t say that! Nobody has the right to say someone is in Hell.
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Neverland
Guest
Dear Gurrato,
I used to have a friend whose wife converted from Islam to Christianity (in the real life, I met the husband though and only see her photo) because when she did a tahajut shalat (shalat at midnight) and asked God to show a true way, she saw a cross on her Sajadah. Before converting, she was a very pious moslem and she came from a family with thick islamic culture.
Neverland
P.S. You may try that.
I used to have a friend whose wife converted from Islam to Christianity (in the real life, I met the husband though and only see her photo) because when she did a tahajut shalat (shalat at midnight) and asked God to show a true way, she saw a cross on her Sajadah. Before converting, she was a very pious moslem and she came from a family with thick islamic culture.
Neverland
P.S. You may try that.
K
katewithak
Guest
gurrato alaien:
The Mormons make this claim as well. Being the fastest growing Church in the world is not necessarily an indication of being the holiest Church in the world. The world is fickle. Take for instance cigarettes. Hottest product to come on the market since wonder bread. Everyone ran to smoke. All over the papers, the movies, the T.V. How appealing, how sexy, how manly, cigarettes make a person the ads screamed. Then suddenly all those who rushed to joint the cigarette smokers were gone and people wre campaigning the opposite direction. Why? Cigarettes cause cancer. The majority may rule, the majority is not necessarily correct.
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exoflare
Guest
What’s a Sajadah?
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Tah_Dah_Man
Guest
Dear gurrato alaien,
The Muslim Jesus
After the emergence or the “rising” of the Mahdi, the second most important event among the Major Signs, is the return of Jesus Christ. Christians who love Jesus understandably get quite excited by the prospect that even Muslims are looking for and longing for His return. Unfortunately, the Islamic belief of just who this Jesus is that is coming, and what he does once he has arrived, is drastically different than what Christians believe about Jesus.
The first thing that Christians need to understand regarding the Islamic belief about Jesus is that Muslims of course reject the idea that Jesus was or is the Son of God.
According to Islam, Jesus is not as the Bible articulates, God in the flesh. Secondly, in Islamic belief, Jesus never died on a cross for the sins of mankind. The Quran specifically denies that Jesus was ever crucified or that He ever experienced death. Muslims believe that after Allah miraculously delivered Jesus from death, he was assumed into heaven alive in a similar fashion to the biblical narrative regarding Elijah. Since then, Muslims believe, Jesus has remained with Allah and has been awaiting his opportunity to return to the earth to finish his ministry and complete his life. As such, to the Islamic mind, Jesus was not in any way a “savior”.
To Muslims, Jesus was merely another prophet in the long line of prophets that Allah has sent to mankind. The special title of Messiah, although retained in the Islamic tradition, is essentially stripped of any truly biblically defined Messianic characteristics. According to the sacred texts of Islam, as we are about to see, when Jesus returns, it most certainly will not be to restore the Nation of Israel to the Jewish people. Nor will Jesus’ purpose be to save and deliver his faithful followers from the ongoing persecution of the Antichrist.
In order to understand the Islamic concept of Jesus’ return, the first thing that needs to be realized is that when Jesus comes back, he comes back as a radical Muslim!
The Muslim Jesus
After the emergence or the “rising” of the Mahdi, the second most important event among the Major Signs, is the return of Jesus Christ. Christians who love Jesus understandably get quite excited by the prospect that even Muslims are looking for and longing for His return. Unfortunately, the Islamic belief of just who this Jesus is that is coming, and what he does once he has arrived, is drastically different than what Christians believe about Jesus.
The first thing that Christians need to understand regarding the Islamic belief about Jesus is that Muslims of course reject the idea that Jesus was or is the Son of God.
According to Islam, Jesus is not as the Bible articulates, God in the flesh. Secondly, in Islamic belief, Jesus never died on a cross for the sins of mankind. The Quran specifically denies that Jesus was ever crucified or that He ever experienced death. Muslims believe that after Allah miraculously delivered Jesus from death, he was assumed into heaven alive in a similar fashion to the biblical narrative regarding Elijah. Since then, Muslims believe, Jesus has remained with Allah and has been awaiting his opportunity to return to the earth to finish his ministry and complete his life. As such, to the Islamic mind, Jesus was not in any way a “savior”.
To Muslims, Jesus was merely another prophet in the long line of prophets that Allah has sent to mankind. The special title of Messiah, although retained in the Islamic tradition, is essentially stripped of any truly biblically defined Messianic characteristics. According to the sacred texts of Islam, as we are about to see, when Jesus returns, it most certainly will not be to restore the Nation of Israel to the Jewish people. Nor will Jesus’ purpose be to save and deliver his faithful followers from the ongoing persecution of the Antichrist.
In order to understand the Islamic concept of Jesus’ return, the first thing that needs to be realized is that when Jesus comes back, he comes back as a radical Muslim!
T
Tah_Dah_Man
Guest
JESUS - according to the Muslim theologians:
Summary
Now let’s review the various defining characteristics and actions of the Muslim Jesus upon his return to the earth:
Rather than coming to reign as King and Messiah over all the earth from Jerusalem, Jesus instead comes to convert the world to Islam or kill those who refuse to do so.
Instead of coming to save and deliver faithful Christians and Jews, he comes instead to kill and slaughter them.
Summary
Now let’s review the various defining characteristics and actions of the Muslim Jesus upon his return to the earth:
- Jesus is said to return to the earth in the last-days near a mosque in Damascus.
- He will arrive at a time when the Mahdi and his army will be preparing to pray.
- He will be offered to lead the prayer by the Mahdi, but will decline in direct deference to the Mahdi who Jesus declares to be the leader of the Muslims.
- He will then pray behind the Mahdi as a subordinate.
- He will be a faithful Muslim
- He will make pilgrimage to Mecca.
- He will visit Muhammad’s grave, and salute Muhammad, whereby Muhammad will return the salute from the grave.
- He will destroy Christianity.
- He will repeal the jizyah tax thus causing the only option for Jews and Christians to convert to Islam or die.
- He will establish Islamic Shari’ah (Law) throughout the entire earth.
- He will kill the Antichrist and his followers made up largely of Jews and women.
- He will remain on the earth for roughly forty years, during which time he will marry, have children and then die.
Rather than coming to reign as King and Messiah over all the earth from Jerusalem, Jesus instead comes to convert the world to Islam or kill those who refuse to do so.
Instead of coming to save and deliver faithful Christians and Jews, he comes instead to kill and slaughter them.
T
Tah_Dah_Man
Guest
wvinter.net/~haught/Koran.html
This is what the Islamic extremists want to follow, written in their book THE KORAN.
“O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other.
Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people.” - 5:54
“Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah’s religion reigns supreme…” - 8:39
“Fight unbelievers who are near to you.” -9:123
(different translation):
“Believers! Make war on the infidels who dwell around you.
Let them find harshness in you.”
(another source: )
“Ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers…”
“When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks, then when you have made wide slaughter among them, tie fast the bonds, then set them free, either by grace or ransom, until the war lays down its burdens.” -47:4
(different translation: )
“When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield, strike off their heads, and when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly.”
-----Now, the good news is that most of the Muslims will not follow the above. -Thank God!-----
This is what the Islamic extremists want to follow, written in their book THE KORAN.
“O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other.
Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people.” - 5:54
“Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah’s religion reigns supreme…” - 8:39
“Fight unbelievers who are near to you.” -9:123
(different translation):
“Believers! Make war on the infidels who dwell around you.
Let them find harshness in you.”
(another source: )
“Ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers…”
“When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks, then when you have made wide slaughter among them, tie fast the bonds, then set them free, either by grace or ransom, until the war lays down its burdens.” -47:4
(different translation: )
“When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield, strike off their heads, and when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly.”
-----Now, the good news is that most of the Muslims will not follow the above. -Thank God!-----
T
Tah_Dah_Man
Guest
And,
“The Arab jihad against the Jews and Israel did not begin with Israel’s successful defense in 1967, not even with the war the Arabs waged against the new born state of Israel in 1948, or the rejections of the two state partition plan accepted by Israel in 1947 but rejected by the Arabs. It began before the rejection by our Arab cousins of the Balfour declaration of a Jewish homeland in Palestine - a plan that was endorsed by the nations of the world. In fact, it began in 622 C. E., when Mohammed traveled to Medina and tried to force the conversion of the Jews to Islam. As a result of the refusal of the Jewish community to convert, ethnic cleansing was employed and two of the Jewish tribes were expelled. Later, in 627 C.E., followers of Mohammed slaughtered between 600 and 900 men and captured the women and children, dividing them between themselves. Following that came centuries of discrimination, pogroms and the enforced status of dhimmis, apartheid in the form of lower caste status given to Jews and Christians in Arab controlled lands - a status some equate with that of untouchables in India.”
From:
christianactionforisrael.org/un/evil_watch.html
And, of course, the Jews did their violence when they took the Promised Land as recorded in the Old Testament.
Jesus said in Matthew 10:16
“Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves:
be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.”
“The Arab jihad against the Jews and Israel did not begin with Israel’s successful defense in 1967, not even with the war the Arabs waged against the new born state of Israel in 1948, or the rejections of the two state partition plan accepted by Israel in 1947 but rejected by the Arabs. It began before the rejection by our Arab cousins of the Balfour declaration of a Jewish homeland in Palestine - a plan that was endorsed by the nations of the world. In fact, it began in 622 C. E., when Mohammed traveled to Medina and tried to force the conversion of the Jews to Islam. As a result of the refusal of the Jewish community to convert, ethnic cleansing was employed and two of the Jewish tribes were expelled. Later, in 627 C.E., followers of Mohammed slaughtered between 600 and 900 men and captured the women and children, dividing them between themselves. Following that came centuries of discrimination, pogroms and the enforced status of dhimmis, apartheid in the form of lower caste status given to Jews and Christians in Arab controlled lands - a status some equate with that of untouchables in India.”
From:
christianactionforisrael.org/un/evil_watch.html
And, of course, the Jews did their violence when they took the Promised Land as recorded in the Old Testament.
Jesus said in Matthew 10:16
“Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves:
be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.”
- Status