Jesus lied.

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Hippyprincess,

I missed the post about your grandmother, and her situation. You dear one.❤️

Would you let me ask the daily mass crowd to add her to the prayer list?

They do that. They pray daily for a list of people and they dont do backround checks, they just love praying for people.

I cant pray myself, but I have thoughts about those how are suffering, in pain, lonely, dying, and so many other things, physical pain, and so on.

I would be proud to keep you and she in my mind and thoughts. You don’t have to blame Jesus for death and dying. He died too.
 
Sarah_Angel said:
I think you’re being a bit overly-simplistic about this whole thing.
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The Bible simplifies it for us, however.
There are few ways to reinterpret most of these quotes. Just as the Bible comes right out and says “homosexuality is an abomination,” it also directly states “Ask and it will be given to you.” Funny how some simple, direct statements are taken literally while others are not.

So far, nobody has been able to provide Biblical evidence for God’s selectivity. If you have any Bible quotes, please let me know.
Sarah_Angel said:
Jesus never said that we will never suffer, nor that our suffering will cease on Earth if we believe in Him. However, things will always work out for the better. Remember that your grandmother is not immortal on this Earth. Even if she survives this cancer, she will eventually die and therefore leave this Earth in some other way. I’m sorry if that sounds depressing, but it’s the truth.
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This just proves my point.
Your prayers will not be granted, even if you are of strong faith. You will suffer.
Sarah_Angel said:
Also, have you considered that maybe your arguments are age-old?
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All of these arguments are age-old. Most arguments on CA are age old, it doesn’t make them irrelevant.
Sarah_Angel said:
I hope you didn’t post your opening statement because you expected us to be taken-aback and then believe that maybe Jesus did lie to us.
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I’m not attention-seeking, I’m very interested in theology, ethics, and religious theory. Jesus’s teachings have gone directly against what has actually occured. Since God will not lie and Jesus is God, then why would Jesus say something untrue? I’m wondering this myself. Just some food for thought.
 
Can’t we just help hippyprincess, and agree to love her now? She does not need fighting or arguing now. She needs love.

What did your Jesus say?
 
hippyprincess said:
I don’t have faith, and I don’t claim to have it. However, my dear grandmother, who is one of the most religious people I know, certainly has faith. I’ve never heard my grandmother say a bad thing about anyone in her life, and she is always loving and pious. She clearly loves God as she would a family member, and follows the Christian teaching.

Currently, she is dying in a hospital bed, afflicted with cancer. The illogicality of it all astounds me: if you are such a firm believer, and “one of God’s children,” you should not be suffering and dying a painful death. It just proves another innumerable contradiction of Christianity.

Half my family, especially my grandfather, has been praying for hours daily for my grandmother to be well again. According to the Bible teachings, their prayers should be granted; they were done with good intentions by people of faith.

Their prayers were not granted; Jesus lied.
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Perhaps God is rewarding your grandmother for her love and will call her to heaven soon. Why are we so obsessed with this world, with all of the pains, troubles and trials? We are only here as a temporary exile until we can be in eternal bliss with Our Lord Jesus Christ!

i think her prayer is being answered!

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

mark
 
davidv said:
davidv;5509187:
Quote:
You ask and do not receive, because you ask wrongly, to spend it on your passions.

James 4:3
To me this suggests that our prayer needs to be united to God’s will.

My other suggestion is that we don’t always like God’s answer. Sometimes, His answer, rather than “yes” is “no”, or “not yet”…
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Something like this was what I was looking for, but this quote is taken out of context. Before verse 3 is said, the Bible says people kill and covet, instead of asking God for the things they desire. In fact, the sentence before verse 3 says that they do not recieve BECAUSE they don’t ask God. If anything, this just reinforces my point.

For your second argument, where in the bible does it say that your prayers have to be considered before being answered? All it says is “your prayers WILL be answered.”
 
Mintaka said:
If you had faith, you would obey all God’s commands. You would love God wholeheartedly. You would want only to do His will, and you would do it. You would want to suffer for His sake and for the sake of others, and You would do that too, making your life a constant offering.

You would become holy. You would be like God.

And then, miracles would happen, because God would be able to work through you. You would ask for things and they would happen, because you would know what God wanted you to ask for. You would be like a saint in heaven, even while still alive.

And indeed, there are some people who live like this. They are called “wonderworkers” as a technical term. They are people like Padre Pio, or St. Martin de Porres, or Ven. Solanus Casey in our own United States. Padre Pio knew everything that was in people’s minds. St. Martin de Porres teleported a whole class of novices home to their monastery, because he didn’t want them to be late for dinner. Solanus Casey cured the sick, did great wonders, and even (from one account I read) multiplied ice cream cones to make sure there was enough for everybody! It’s ludicrously wondrous. But modern people saw things like this happen before their eyes.

If we already were what God means us all to become in Heaven, we would all be able to work such wonders, because God would always be working through us. We would be willing instruments of God’s providence. But as yet, most of us don’t even have as much as a mustard seed’s worth of faith. We have to work on that. Wonderworkers are a foretaste of what we will become.
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This was such a great answer.
Just outstanding. Truly.
 
Read the book of Job. Job was faithful, and he experienced hardships beyond what you ever will. God will speak to you thru the story of Job’s trials. Hopefully you will be able to pray the prayer Job did … and healing will come to you, and perhaps your g-mother.

Also, read the Gospel of John. John explains how one bonds to God thru Christ.
 
StrawberryJam said:
Can’t we just help hippyprincess, and agree to love her now? She does not need fighting or arguing now. She needs love.

What did your Jesus say?
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I genuinely appreciate your concern. It’s immeasurably kind of you to care for someone over the Internet so much that you offer your time to them. But I don’t want your pity. I’ve come to terms with the situation, and if it would make you feel better, you’re welcome to pray for her. I’m sure she would appreciate it greatly. I’m an atheist, so I don’t personally believe that it would have any affect on the situation. I believe in more active forms of support: instead if praying, why not give blood or raise money for cancer research? That’s why I’m doing. But I do admire the fact that you offered your condolences for her. 🙂

Also, I’m not blaming Jesus for her cancer. I’m blaming the uncontrolled cell growth in her stomach. Please don’t think I’m lashing out at religion because of my family situation.
 
lil_flower_luv said:
Jesus would never lie. He is everything that is good. 🙂
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I know that the church teaches that Jesus would never lie, which is why this email interested me.

I invite you to disprove the quotes, because so far no one has yet.
 
brb2 said:
And they are, if you are God’s child. But, sometimes the answer is no.
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This was misspeaking on my part. I was thinking along the lines of “my prayers have been answered,” which is a cliche screamed when someone gets pregnant in a movie. 🤷

What I meant was that the Bible does in no way say “God will consider your prayers and decide yes or no.” It says that God will grant you whatever you ask, so long as you worship him. If there is a quote that says God will decide yes or no, please feel free to share. I’d love to discuss it.

If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask for whatever you want and it will be done for you. John 15:7
 
hippyprincess said:
I know that the church teaches that Jesus would never lie, which is why this email interested me.

I invite you to disprove the quotes, because so far no one has yet.
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No one can disprove the quotes, because the quotes do not in and of themselves tell the whole story I think.

If I were in your position, and I am not, I would ignore these people and simply look to what Jesus actually said and did and not what these men say he meant to say.

Didn’t he say it was crass to look at the letter of the law and not the spirit of the law?

Example- when an animal was in need of help on the sabbath.

Which “law” did he think was superior?

I think the bottom line there was to save a life, no matter what.

Jesus never condoned doing less.

Nor approved the deaths of those who suffered. His cousin was beheaded, and he did not condone that. I am sure prayers were said, before St John the Baptists head was served up on a platter.
 
All of the verses you have are the same message repeated.
Yes, in short, believers will be rewarded, because they believe even when they don’t feel our Lord’s presence with them. But they also believe in the good times when He has revealed Himself to them.
And as for asking and receiving; Keep up your questions! This is where you must start. Not all questions can be answered. But God is good. He will make Himself known to you. And if He already has, look for Him again. “Knock and the door will be opened unto you.”
 
hippyprincess said:
This was misspeaking on my part. I was thinking along the lines of “my prayers have been answered,” which is a cliche screamed when someone gets pregnant in a movie. 🤷

What I meant was that the Bible does in no way say “God will consider your prayers and decide yes or no.” It says that God will grant you whatever you ask, so long as you worship him. If there is a quote that says God will decide yes or no, please feel free to share. I’d love to discuss it.

If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask for whatever you want and it will be done for you. John 15:7
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Tricky thing this.

This, I think refers to the Eucharist. The “In Me”

How can anyone remain In Him?

The ultimate question.

I have no answers for that so far. But, I do think it is a valid point for a christian to make that this passage reffers to being in communion with Jesus.

I do not think being in communion with Jesus means he is some Jenie that grants anything you wish.
 
StrawberryJam said:
Hippieprincess,

Your love for your grandmother is enough. You love.
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But Who gave us our families…our very lives?..who gave us love itself? What is there to live for if you don’t live for the very One who has given you everything? That’s what I don’t understand. Nothing. There’s nothing to live for if it isn’t for Him. We might as well be dust without God.
 
hippyprincess said:
Today I received an interesting email full of Bible quotes demonstrating how Jesus lied. He says, quite clearly, that whatever you pray for shall be granted, as long as you have true faith. Even if you pray that mountains will be tossed into the sea, God will fulfill your wish. Obviously, this is not true at all.

Here are the quotes:
  1. And Jesus answered and said to them, "Truly I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, `Be taken up and cast into the sea,’ it will happen. “And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive.” (Matthew 21:21-22 NAS)
  2. Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened. (Matthew 7:7-8 NAB)
  3. Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven. For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst. (Matthew 18:19-20 NAS)
  4. Amen, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be lifted up and thrown into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it shall be done for him. Therefore I tell you, all that you ask for in prayer, believe that you will receive it and it shall be yours. (Mark 11:24-25 NAB)
  5. And I tell you, ask and you will receive; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened. (Luke 11:9-13 NAB)
  6. And whatever you ask in my name, I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask anything of me in my name, I will do it. (John 14:13-14 NAB)
  7. If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask for whatever you want and it will be done for you. (John 15:7 NAB)
  8. It was not you who chose me, but I who chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit that will remain, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name he may give you. (John 15:16 NAB)
  9. On that day you will not question me about anything. Amen, amen, I say to you, whatever you ask the Father in my name he will give you. Until now you have not asked anything in my name; ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be complete. (John 16:23-24 NAB)
The Bible does NOT say “God will consider your prayers, and act as he thinks appropriately.” It does not say “your prayers MIGHT be granted.” Jesus clearly states, with conviction, that anything you want shall be given to you.

Also, please don’t say “you can’t have everything you want.” Even if I did believe in God, and believed wishes were divinely granted, I would still think this is a bad idea. This would cause chaos, and just be a ridiculous expectation.

If you have any Bible quotes saying “prayers will be granted if God feels like it,” please let me know. This email interested me greatly because, according to Christianity, Jesus never sinned.
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I see you are a unbeliever. How much do you know about the Bible? Do you believe it’s the word of God? See 2 Tim.3:16, 2Tim.4:4-5

I really haven’t too much to say about what you think. We don’t of a base from which we can discuss anything religious.
I will pray for you. 🙂

May the Lord help you out of your unbief,
jean
 
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