Jesus, Mary, Sin, and Being Human

[PJM]

=Marybeloved;8465939]Hello Meltzerboy,

**I believe that catholic belief about Jesus’ Holiness as a Human is that: **

a) Jesus was not only sinless but impeccable- This means that Jesus could not choose to sin. Though he has two natures that he possesses perfectly as his own, divine and human, he is only one subject, one divine person. So he cannot sin against himself- For him, sin is not even a possibility.

b) He was/is also the perfect human being, the best of us, so his human nature was also perfect without the slightest effects of original sin. Christ did not suffer from any of the effects of original sin on the soul such as concupiscence/or disordered affections or attachments to things, he had no flaws of character, no faults at all, such as greed, sloth, etc or generally bad tendencies that we suffer from that do not in themselves constitute sin, but tendencies toward sin.

-In many ways, we cannot fully appreciate his humanity, because we only know fallen human nature (man with many weaknesses in nature and character). It’s difficult to imagine the alternative version of humankind without sin or its effects and what that would have been like. So we know that Christ as man, was subject to limitations- he needed to sleep, eat, work etc. As man, he had limited knowledge and abilities. This was his usual human condition, unless he permitted it some extra-human privileges/miracles. But we truly can not know Jesus’ perfect human condition well, because our own humanity is fallen. We don’t know if all of the things we take for granted as “natural” to us are truly natural or fallen, therefore if Jesus (as man) experienced them all or not. Theologians say his human intellect must have been well beyond any human intellect because it was not fallen and was able to grasp truth more clearly, easily, directly, and avoid error easily. His will was perfectly unencumbered by passions and other things as explained earlier. He never suffered temptations “from the inside”, or rebellion from his nature- All his temptations were external.

c) The proximity of his human nature to the divine, being a nature in which a Divine person acted directly, being perfectly united to the divine will. You see, no creature can be so close to God, as to be one with him, and be unaffected. Holiness even in us, and the Saints is the result of progressive closeness to Divinity, made possible by grace. God Hallows, makes Holy. So Christ had, as man, the fullest measure of holiness that is possible to imagine in any creature, anything not God. Again, we cannot know how this affected his general nature so that we can point at his life and say easily: That’s due to his impeccability, That’s due to his human perfection, That’s due to his perfect union with God. It’s not something we can properly imagine.

The Church’s teaching about Mary:

a) She certainly was not impeccable (incapable of sin). She had full freedom to disobey, like any creature. Her sinlessness is based on choice and grace.
b) She was saved from original sin, which is a type of hole or lack where sanctifying grace should have been were it not for the fall. Sanctifying grace is like our umbilical code to God, that enables intimate communion or friendship with God, beyond the relationship of Creator-creature. Mary, at her conception got what we get at baptism, the infusion of grace into the soul, and communion/shared life with the Blessed Trinity. She suffered from no effects of original sin, but rather was in the condition of Adam and eve before the fall.
c) The grace she got was perfect and complete, enduring all her life, so that she submitted perfectly to God for all her life- She was “full of grace” all her life. Tempted, sure, but her boon of a grace was more than sufficient to help her.

WELL DONE!

THANKS

 

[gravel]

Greetings to all: I would like to submit this as a way to help in this discussion:

Remember that everything God created was perfectly Good. People, plants, water, animals, lava, dirt, air, sharks, salamanders, moon rocks to the rings of Saturn…you get the idea. Everything was complete.

When sin entered the world through God’s most personal creation Mankind, this Good became tarnished, and not complete, not perfect, not whole…and ultimately this bruise however deep and dark, needed to be healed.

Committing sin willfully, thinking about sinful acts, doing sinful things by accident, people who don’t even know what sin is, etc…what this does is remove more good. Committing a sinful act does not completely erase all the good that is in a person. However, continuing down or up a path of sinful behavior does indeed make it very easy to keep on sinning to the point that sin does not seem very sinful anymore. And still there is good in that person, there is still that creation longing to be made whole.

How much good is erased to the point of no return is something only Jesus has earned the right to judge.

Jesus was sinless because he did not allow himself to be tarnished. He remained complete. Yes he saw sinful acts (people drunk at a wedding), he thought about sinful behavior (the women at the well), he was tempted in the desert, he was human as you and I in what he saw, and how he experienced humanity. But knowing something is not doing something. We are only ever tempted by ourselves, we have complete control of our will. Yes it is difficult, but so is climbing Mt. McKinley in January. Will power.

I believe Jesus had the ability to remain untarnished from committing sin because he created us all, and he knew all the sin, he knew all the heart ache and the pain and the pride and selfishness, the loss and the hurt…and he knew it all to the point that he loved us all because of it, because we were all created Good and that we could be restored through himself to the glory of the Father.

And this is the very reason he told us to be perfect as he is perfect. We are to be made whole and compete. Not that you do not have knowledge of bad, or evil acts. It is that you know sin and you choose not to do it. That you see evil, and you stop it.

Because Jesus knew all our sin and did not commit them, he carried our sin on his back, and still proved that we could love as he does. For this passion, God allowed him to take our place until a time that we too will be made complete.

May the grace of the Lord Jesus be with you all,

James

ps: sorry there are no scripture references.