Jesus Never Said It!

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A person I know who is a practicing methodist said this about the union of a man and woman…What is he thinking?

*Any self-proclaimed “Christian” argument against homosexuality is bogus.

Jesus never mentioned it, ever.

Also, any self-proclaimed “Christian” argument that declares marriage must be defined as “one man and one woman” is also bogus. The Bible clearly and frequently contradicts this notion.

Our modern concept of heterosexual, monogamous marriage is a modern cultural evolution. Polygamy was common during Christ’s time, and he said nothing to forbid it. In fact, the concept of choosing your own mate is a thoroughly modern development. For the vast bulk of Judeo-Christian history, arranged marriage was the norm. And One-Man, One-Woman is a fairly recent
development.
*
 
tparsons said:
A person I know who is a practicing methodist said this about the union of a man and woman…What is he thinking?

*Any self-proclaimed “Christian” argument against homosexuality is bogus.

Jesus never mentioned it, ever.

Also, any self-proclaimed “Christian” argument that declares marriage must be defined as “one man and one woman” is also bogus. The Bible clearly and frequently contradicts this notion.

Our modern concept of heterosexual, monogamous marriage is a modern cultural evolution. Polygamy was common during Christ’s time, and he said nothing to forbid it. In fact, the concept of choosing your own mate is a thoroughly modern development. For the vast bulk of Judeo-Christian history, arranged marriage was the norm. And One-Man, One-Woman is a fairly recent
development.
*
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True, polygamy predates Christianity, but EVER society has recognized only man-woman arrangements - from Jewish to Christian.
 
tparsons said:
A person I know who is a practicing methodist said this about the union of a man and woman…What is he thinking?

*Any self-proclaimed “Christian” argument against homosexuality is bogus.

Jesus never mentioned it, ever.

Also, any self-proclaimed “Christian” argument that declares marriage must be defined as “one man and one woman” is also bogus. The Bible clearly and frequently contradicts this notion.

Our modern concept of heterosexual, monogamous marriage is a modern cultural evolution. Polygamy was common during Christ’s time, and he said nothing to forbid it. In fact, the concept of choosing your own mate is a thoroughly modern development. For the vast bulk of Judeo-Christian history, arranged marriage was the norm. And One-Man, One-Woman is a fairly recent
development.
*
Click to expand...
The person who you know is wrong on so many counts I don’t know where to begin.

First, it’s in the Bible in black and white. Just because “Jesus” didn’t say it doesn’t mean it isn’t the truth or in the Bible. The Gospels are a part of the Bible. Jesus’ teaching are part of the entire story. If it wasn’t, we wouldn’t have a Bible, we’d have 4 gospels.

Marriage is between a man and a woman. He can try to get around that any way he wants but the bottom line is the marriage between a man and woman is a fact, and it is in the Bible.
 
TemplarKnight said:
The person who you know is wrong on so many counts I don’t know where to begin.

First, it’s in the Bible in black and white. Just because “Jesus” didn’t say it doesn’t mean it isn’t the truth or in the Bible. The Gospels are a part of the Bible. Jesus’ teaching are part of the entire story. If it wasn’t, we wouldn’t have a Bible, we’d have 4 gospels.

Marriage is between a man and a woman. He can try to get around that any way he wants but the bottom line is the marriage between a man and woman is a fact, and it is in the Bible.
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I for one certainly agree! I need to do some research to put him in his place. His statements really aggravated me. He told me to read Matthew 5 to support what he said.
 
tparsons said:
A person I know who is a practicing methodist said this about the union of a man and woman…What is he thinking?

*Any self-proclaimed “Christian” argument against homosexuality is bogus.

Jesus never mentioned it, ever.

Also, any self-proclaimed “Christian” argument that declares marriage must be defined as “one man and one woman” is also bogus. The Bible clearly and frequently contradicts this notion.

Our modern concept of heterosexual, monogamous marriage is a modern cultural evolution. Polygamy was common during Christ’s time, and he said nothing to forbid it. In fact, the concept of choosing your own mate is a thoroughly modern development. For the vast bulk of Judeo-Christian history, arranged marriage was the norm. And One-Man, One-Woman is a fairly recent
development.
*
Click to expand...
Before I converted to the Catholic Faith in 1992 I was a born and brought up Methodist and I can tell you the so-called practising Methodist person you know is talking rubbish because that it certainly not something taught by the Methodist Church.
 
tparsons said:
I for one certainly agree! I need to do some research to put him in his place. His statements really aggravated me. He told me to read Matthew 5 to support what he said.
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This person wouldn’t perhaps be a -]disciple/-], er fan, of Barak Obama, would he?
 
tparsons said:
I for one certainly agree! I need to do some research to put him in his place. His statements really aggravated me. He told me to read Matthew 5 to support what he said.
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That’s funny. Matthew 5 actually refutes much of what he claims.

Chris
 
tparsons said:
A person I know who is a practicing methodist said this about the union of a man and woman…What is he thinking?

Any self-proclaimed “Christian” argument against homosexuality is bogus.

Jesus never mentioned it, ever.

Also, any self-proclaimed “Christian” argument that declares marriage must be defined as “one man and one woman” is also bogus. The Bible clearly and frequently contradicts this notion.

*Our modern concept of heterosexual, monogamous marriage is a modern cultural evolution. Polygamy was common during Christ’s time, and he said nothing to forbid it. In fact, the concept of choosing your own mate is a thoroughly modern development. For the vast bulk of Judeo-Christian history, arranged marriage was the norm. And One-Man, One-Woman is a fairly recent *
development.
Click to expand...
He is correct regarding monogamous marriage - Jesus did not condemn polygamy (at least not it is not recorded in the Gospels) and it did exist. However, Christian Tradition has held monogamy to be the rule ever since Christ’s death. BTW…I hope people realize that the Gospels probably do not include everything Jesus said in three years…they would have been a bit longer. Either that, or Jesus didn’t talk much.

Homosexual “marriage” was not even thought of at the time, so there was no need to condemn it. Can you imagine the looks Jesus would have gotten if He said “and a man shall not marry a man?” Well…duh!?! 😛

As far as homosexual acts themselves, they are condemned in the Bible and Tradition.

Your friend has no leg to stand on. Ask him if he can find where Jesus promoted polygamy and/or homosexuality and/or homosexual “marriage.” If he can find that, then he has a case.
 
the argument about polygamy being proof that marriage isn’t between one man and one woman is easily refuted.

if a man had many wives, he had many marriages. the wives weren’t married to each other as well. each of those marriages only involved one man and one woman. just because the man had multiple marriages doesn’t mean that they each involved more people than just the two who were being married.

mormonism took polygamy to a new level with the teaching that they are all married to each other, thus many people being included in the same marriage. this was not the case in polygamy up until that point. each marriage was separate from the other marriage and each one only involved one man and one woman.
 
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MF
 
rlg94086 said:
He is correct regarding monogamous marriage - Jesus did not condemn polygamy (at least not it is not recorded in the Gospels) and it did exist.
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Not within Judaism in Jesus’ day. Jesus clearly holds up one man-one woman as the standard for marriage. See for example: Matthew 5:31-32; Matthew 19:1-12; and Mark 10:1-12. Now try to find a single example anywhere in Scripture of any marriage between people of the same gender receiving approval.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
mlchance said:
Not within Judaism in Jesus’ day. Jesus clearly holds up one man-one woman as the standard for marriage. See for example: Matthew 5:31-32; Matthew 19:1-12; and Mark 10:1-12. Now try to find a single example anywhere in Scripture of any marriage between people of the same gender receiving approval.

– Mark L. Chance.
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but Jesus never condemns polygamy and the passages you refer to could fit very well within the idea that each marriage is between 1 man and 1 woman (just because that 1 man has many marriages doesn’t negate that). i am NOT arguing for polygamy, please don’t read that into my post. i just don’t want to be putting words into Jesus’ mouth.

i have read that one of the possible explanations of Jesus’ “brothers and sisters” is that joseph was a much older man than mary and agreed to take her in as his “wife” (never intending to have sex with her as was a somewhat common practice for parents to give their daughters to a “benefactor” for protection yet those daughters were consecrated virgins). he possibly has other wives who bore him children and the “brothers and sisters” of Jesus were older “half” (in the world’s eyes since they believed Jesus to be the son of Joseph) siblings. this would explain why they assumed the authority to try to come rebuke Jesus and take Him home (a younger sibling would not have probably done that) and would be consistent with Jesus giving His mother to john to take care of since she didn’t have any other children. if this explanation is true, then polygamy was still practiced within judaism in Jesus’ day.

my point is that we can’t assume anything Jesus said. we must look at the entire bible to understand all doctrine (not just the few recorded words of Jesus). polygamy isn’t forbidden until paul says that a bishop should be the husband of only one wife (which opens up a whole other can of worms that we don’t need to get into here 😉 ). the practice of that became the norm within all of Christianity as the people adopted the standards the bishops were held to.
 
bengal_fan said:
but Jesus never condemns polygamy and the passages you refer to could fit very well within the idea that each marriage is between 1 man and 1 woman (just because that 1 man has many marriages doesn’t negate that). i am NOT arguing for polygamy, please don’t read that into my post. i just don’t want to be putting words into Jesus’ mouth.

i have read that one of the possible explanations of Jesus’ “brothers and sisters” is that joseph was a much older man than mary and agreed to take her in as his “wife” (never intending to have sex with her as was a somewhat common practice for parents to give their daughters to a “benefactor” for protection yet those daughters were consecrated virgins). he possibly has other wives who bore him children and the “brothers and sisters” of Jesus were older “half” (in the world’s eyes since they believed Jesus to be the son of Joseph) siblings. this would explain why they assumed the authority to try to come rebuke Jesus and take Him home (a younger sibling would not have probably done that) and would be consistent with Jesus giving His mother to john to take care of since she didn’t have any other children. if this explanation is true, then polygamy was still practiced within judaism in Jesus’ day.

my point is that we can’t assume anything Jesus said. we must look at the entire bible to understand all doctrine (not just the few recorded words of Jesus). polygamy isn’t forbidden until paul says that a bishop should be the husband of only one wife (which opens up a whole other can of worms that we don’t need to get into here 😉 ). the practice of that became the norm within all of Christianity as the people adopted the standards the bishops were held to.
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That is my understanding, as well. When teaching that you can’t divorce your wife, it doesn’t necessarily mean that you don’t have more than one. Similarly, when saying that if you divorce and marry another it is adultery, that doesn’t mean you can’t keep the current wife you have and marry another.

In fact, St Paul’s statement that a bishop should only be the husband of one wife, is evidence that polygamy existed and that it might have even been acceptable…except for bishops.

Again, Christian Tradition holds that polygamy is a sin, but a fundamentalist reading of Scripture does not prove the case. The passages mlchance provided certainly support Tradition.
 
rlg94086 said:
Again, Christian Tradition holds that polygamy is a sin, but a fundamentalist reading of Scripture does not prove the case. The passages mlchance provided certainly support Tradition.
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agree
 
tparsons said:
I for one certainly agree! I need to do some research to put him in his place.
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How about just doing some research…period!

And how dare you claim to be the one that’s aggravated! How dare you!!:mad:
 
rlg94086 said:
Again, Christian Tradition holds that polygamy is a sin, but a fundamentalist reading of Scripture does not prove the case. The passages mlchance provided certainly support Tradition.
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Did God ever regulate sin? Did He ever encourage sin?
 
mlchance said:
Not within Judaism in Jesus’ day. Jesus clearly holds up one man-one woman as the standard for marriage. See for example: Matthew 5:31-32; Matthew 19:1-12; and Mark 10:1-12. Now try to find a single example anywhere in Scripture of any marriage between people of the same gender receiving approval.

– Mark L. Chance.
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Okay, and while I’m looking, find one example in the entire bible that shows the institution of slavery as being condemned as an evil and dehumanizing institution.
 
rlg94086 said:
In fact, St Paul’s statement that a bishop should only be the husband of one wife, is evidence that polygamy existed and that it might have even been acceptable…
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I wish you would maintain that level of scrutinizing the details in regards to scripture and homosexuality
 
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