Jesus Never Said It!

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truagape said:
My bad. I didn’t realize that was a rule.
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Actually, I recall it is, but the rules are harder to locate than they were before, so I might be wrong. 😛 My apologies if I am.

EDIT ADD: Found it! But, it is a “Helpful Hint,” so I guess that isn’t really a “rule.” 😛
  1. Don’t jump threads. If you get involved in an argument in one thread, it’s considered poor manners to restart the previous argument in the middle of an unrelated thread. Also, if the moderator closes a thread, consider the subject closed and do not begin it anew in another thread.
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forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=187801
 
:confused:
back up a second

back to the point of this thread for a second…

truagape…

are you implying that homosexuality is NOT a sin?

In Christ
 
truagape said:
Yes it is! And through a series of questions, I will prove it to you. Here’s the first question:

Does Scripture say Sodom was destroyed because of homosexuality?
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I’m sorry, but I’m not playing your 20-questions game. We’ve been down this road before. Besides, I conceded your point in the previous thread after reading the Jewish scholar’s takes on the incident, so it is a boring exercise.

Thank you, by the way, because I really hadn’t given a whit of thought to Sodom and Gomorrah, as it isn’t that important to me. I learned something, and I appreciate it. However, it doesn’t change the fact that homosexual acts are a sin.

You haven’t shown any prejudice on my part, though we certainly all have prejudices. If you are going to persist with your calumny, I recommend you change your name from “truagape.”
 
truagape said:
Just out of curiosity, would such a “rule” have anything to do with making sure text is not taken out of… dare I say it… CONTEXT?
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No. It has to do with the fact that it is rude and irritating to rekindle an argument from the past, when the other poster had chosen not to continue it and/or the moderator has closed the thread.
 
rlg94086 said:
I’m sorry, but I’m not playing your 20-questions game. We’ve been down this road before. Besides, I conceded your point in the previous thread after reading the Jewish scholar’s takes on the incident, so it is a boring exercise.

Thank you, by the way, because I really hadn’t given a whit of thought to Sodom and Gomorrah, as it isn’t that important to me. I learned something, and I appreciate it. However, it doesn’t change the fact that homosexual acts are a sin.

You haven’t shown any prejudice on my part, though we certainly all have prejudices. If you are going to persist with your calumny, I recommend you change your name from “truagape.”
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Actually it’s 21-questions, get it right!😃 (just being silly!)
In regards to what extent the truth concerning Sodom and Gomorrah’s fate changes, you’d be suprised there too. I pray that you become aware of the damage that has been infliceted by such words as “sodomite”.
And you’re right, I haven’t shown any prejudice on your part yet, you didn’t even answer my first question in order for me to do that.
I will persist, but only with the truth, if you don’t mind. (And even if you do.) In regards to “truagape”, if only you knew me, you’d see just how much I love that name. I’m probably one of the most loving, nicest, and funniest person you’ve never met. Besides “truagape” isn’t a name, it’s a spirit. One that I believe all of us should strive for.
 
rlg94086 said:
No. It has to do with the fact that it is rude and irritating to rekindle an argument from the past, when the other poster had chosen not to continue it and/or the moderator has closed the thread.
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So absolutely nothing to do with the context? I’m not so sure…
 
heisenburg said:
:confused:
back up a second

back to the point of this thread for a second…

truagape…

are you implying that homosexuality is NOT a sin?

In Christ
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If you don’t mind, I’ll answer your question with a question:
Does Scripture say Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of homosexuality?
 
This thread is an example of truagape’s old tired hobby horse that he brings in up every thread that’s even slightly related to homosexuality.

Truagape seems to think that if we all accept his pro-gay translation of this one single word in Scripture (“arsenokoites”), it definitively refutes every single other place in Scripture where homosexuality is condemned, and also refutes 2,000 years of Church tradition and teaching – not to mention God’s law since the beginning of creation. He also refuses to say what his credentials are for translating Scripture, leading me to believe that he doesn’t have any and his material is exclusively from pro-gay websites.

Once again, truagape – the translation of “arsenokoites” can be explained here .
 
So Jesus must also be in favor of women having more than one husband?
 
Everything was created through Him, see John 1. Therefore all natural law comes through Him.

Homosexual sex, for example a man putting his penus in another mans rectum is in oposition to natural law. It takes the possibility of procreation out of the sexual act and turns it into recreational act.

The result is deasese and death, not life. The rectum wall is not designed to be subject to this type of physical stress.
 
Does Scripture say Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of homosexuality
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Two points…

And with humble respect,

How is this related to my question. if you don not wish to answer so be it, but the reasons for their destruction is irrelevant to if homosexuality is a sin…

To answer your question though, scripture seems to indicate that it was destroyed for a multitude of different sins… not just one smoking gun… from inappropriate sexual behavior of ALL kinds, not just homosexuality, to murder, to stealing… you name it…

the wild west looked like Disney compared to the level of sin taking place…

Now… even if you do not agree with my statement… i respectfully request you answer mine…

Do you think homosexuality is a sin? Simple question

In Christ
 
heisenburg said:
Do you think homosexuality is a sin? Simple question

In Christ
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It’s also a very simple yes or no question. One that doesn’t require a long diatribe.
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truagape:
Does Scripture say Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of homosexuality?
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Where do you think the term “sodomy” comes from?? So was Sodom and Gomorra destroyed exclusively because of homosexuality, no, however it was one of the main reasons.

Genesis 19

4 But before they went to bed, the men of the city beset the house both young and old, all the people together. 5 And they called Lot, and said to him: Where are the men that came in to thee at night? bring them out hither that we may know them:

You would have to be an idiot not to acknowledge the definition of “know” in this context. See “know” below.

6 Lot went out to them, and shut the door after him, and said: 7 Do not so, I beseech you, my brethren, do not commit this evil. 8 I have two daughters who as yet have not known man:

This obviously means sexual intercourse

I will bring them out to you, and abuse

What do you think they mean by “abuse”? Beat them up? Not quite.

you them as it shall please you, so that you do no evil to these men, because they are come in under the shadow of my roof.

Repent and be saved.

It doesn’t get any easier than Leviticus 20:13

If any one lie with a man as with a woman, both have committed an abomination, let them be put to death: their blood be upon them.

Deny, deny, but the truth does not lie.
 
And if that is not clear, then how about Canon Law?

747§2 The Church has the right always and everywhere to proclaim moral principles, even in respect of the social order, and to make judgements about any human matter in so far as this is required by fundamental human rights or the salvation of souls.

This means if the Church deems homosexuality is a sin, then it is a sin. If you do not accept that, you are not accepting Canon Law or the Church. Therefore, you are not a Catholic no matter what you think or say.
 
heisenburg said:
Two points…

And with humble respect,

How is this related to my question. if you don not wish to answer so be it, but the reasons for their destruction is irrelevant to if homosexuality is a sin…

To answer your question though, scripture seems to indicate that it was destroyed for a multitude of different sins… not just one smoking gun… from inappropriate sexual behavior of ALL kinds, not just homosexuality, to murder, to stealing… you name it…

the wild west looked like Disney compared to the level of sin taking place…

Now… even if you do not agree with my statement… i respectfully request you answer mine…

Do you think homosexuality is a sin? Simple question

In Christ
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Thank you for answering my question. Now I will show you the same cortuesy. In response to your question, and the parameters with which you ask it, namely the use of the word “homosexuality”, here is my answer: Yes and no.
 
TemplarKnight said:
It’s also a very simple yes or no question. One that doesn’t require a long diatribe.

Where do you think the term “sodomy” comes from?? So was Sodom and Gomorra destroyed exclusively because of homosexuality, no, however it was one of the main reasons.

Genesis 19

4 But before they went to bed, the men of the city beset the house both young and old, all the people together. 5 And they called Lot, and said to him: Where are the men that came in to thee at night? bring them out hither that we may know them:

You would have to be an idiot not to acknowledge the definition of “know” in this context. See “know” below.

6 Lot went out to them, and shut the door after him, and said: 7 Do not so, I beseech you, my brethren, do not commit this evil. 8 I have two daughters who as yet have not known man:

This obviously means sexual intercourse

I will bring them out to you, and abuse

What do you think they mean by “abuse”? Beat them up? Not quite.

you them as it shall please you, so that you do no evil to these men, because they are come in under the shadow of my roof.

Repent and be saved.

It doesn’t get any easier than Leviticus 20:13

If any one lie with a man as with a woman, both have committed an abomination, let them be put to death: their blood be upon them.

Deny, deny, but the truth does not lie.
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I hope you’re buclked up, because I can assure you, it’s goin to be a bumpy ride!
 
Yes and no
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If by Yes and No you mean that it is not a sin to BE gay, but it is a sin to partake in homosexual acts (thoughts or other wise), then my understanding is the church actually has no problem.

it is the ACTIONS that make it sinful… If you lean towards affection between same sex but never ACT on it, this tendency is NOT sinful…

Again though… it is the action… and even the thought is considered an action… much like simple lusting for someone is an act of adultery/fornication…

HOWEVER…

If by Yes/No you mean that if you are “married” in the eyes of some church out there that recognizes Gay Married, then it is no longer a sin (much like it is no longer a sin to have sex with your wife…)… this Is where we will differ…

The church and the bible are very clear…

Homosexual ACTIONS of any kind… (either by thought or doing) regardless of legal civil union status are sinful per scripture and the church…

In Christ
 
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